GC: What should happen to trans people after the media storm fizzles out

rainynights · 2023-05-16T18:27:59+00:00

I will eventually get to reading through and replying to all of the messages in this post that I haven't gotten to but I do not have the time nor will to do it all at once en total.

Unfortunately I did not read the reply in time. I'm fine with people being angry or wishing ill on me as it only shows the nature of their own character. I am no stranger to individual trans people being equated to rapists, etc despite the accused having no connection or knowledge of any of the events in question. In fact, I believe that was much more common in the past than it is now. You get used to it. Eventually one learns the truth that some people's lives will always be defined by an unhealthy negative fixation on trans people and that energy needs to be released somehow since everyone is human. That was the case in the 1980s and still rings true today. That is OK and after experiencing that energy from enough people over time you realize that they are only affecting their own selves with that energy since it will ultimately change nothing about how trans people live their lives. However, if the overarching nature of this forum is just people airing out their frustrations, you are right in that I do not have the time to stick around for that. Discussion in a conversation framed like that is just as futile as women conversing in a forum of men who have a grudge against all women in general -- of course every women has committed a sin again maledom in that distorted view of reality. If a women disagrees with any of their points then her humanity is cast away from her and she is nothing other than the caricatures that exist their futile machinations.

Everyone is human with different starting points. It is human nature for people to say that if someone doesn't agree with all of their view of reality (or wishes for how you live your life despite having no stake in it; everyone has something to say for free about how people should live their lives better despite not experiencing their reality :-)) and has some level of self respect, then they must not be a good person or lacks empathy for a large swath of people. That is a tale as old as time that will happen in debates much more important than about some measly trans people.

I don't think society will ever fully get past this issue and trans people eventually just realize they need to let go and live life. Those that are trans-fixed with this issue will always want to get TS women to throw nuance to the wind and admit that they are a man or to have them utter the mantra of "natal male" as a greeting to everyone they meet and that will not change. Trans people will continue on and shoulder being fake tricksters with a proclivity to rape who crawl out of the chasms of hell just fine. I will always want the best for those of us that are "demons, imps, and mutants" as eloquently described by a Florida lawmaker recently. In my life I have met some wise older trans women who survived times much worse than what we enjoy today. A common piece of advice is to never let other people tell you how to live your life and that society will always see trans women as less-than when compared to non-trans people. I still believe that today. You cannot convince someone to believe that you are a real person who has dignity and is not an emulation if they will always want to believe that they know everything about you better than you do yourself and everything is figured out (perhaps transsexuals are merely experiencing hysteria, hmm). If only life could be so simple.

Despite all of this, debate and sharing perspectives is always fun.

rainynights · 2023-05-07T03:38:46+00:00

I am a small person at 5’4. There are bigger trans women for sure though. I’m not going to go into a 3rd space to make a political point when I have been going into the right restroom already for decades without issue.

rainynights · 2023-05-07T03:35:49+00:00

I claim the label woman because that is what people see me as in real life and what makes the most sense for me. I think that calling me a man is very reductive to my actual lived experiences since that is not what people see me as. It's fine if you tie being a woman to female biology, it doesn't bother me. In my real life I'm not going to self flagellate over it because people don't see it the same way. This is the same reason why I am tight lipped about my unique situation to almost all people. I am living my life normally with my husband of almost 20 years. In day to day life I do not think about the trans issue as much as you might think and live my life blending into society as I have always wanted. I have enough self respect to not talk about this to people and make a political show that I don’t believe in. People would love for trans women to make fools of themselves and that is not something I am going to do. If I believed I was a man I would have done all the same surgeries and lived my life the same way because my condition is not that of a professional female impersonator. I am myself and I don’t need anyone’s validation or approval. You can define “woman” however you see fit and I will continue to live my life.

I will be honest with you, to me it sounds like you have taken a lot of your views from the internet. That is your prerogative but I do not have the time nor energy to be plugged into all of the negative energy. I have experienced a lifetime of that already.

For crime statistics: In decades past gays used to say the same thing about us to prevent us from coming into to gay bars. That we were “too much trouble” and violent… the reality was that trans women were always messed with to the point of a scene being caused. I am not the ruler of trans people or guys who would have been mere crossdressers in the past.

Yourself, here, are showing a clear lack of concern for women all the while you expect we respect your wishes. Maybe you're the nicest person in the world and can't kill a fly, but there is no way for women to know this, but even if they could, privacy is important, too. Who are you (or anyone like you) to decide what women find acceptable in such vulnerable setting? Moreover, I've to highlight you keep focusing only on bathrooms when I mentioned several other settings. And you don't even registered the option for third spaces.

I have always had to look out for myself in my life. I don’t think it’s correct to say that because I don’t agree with how you think I should be living my life, I am lacking concern or empathy for women of non-trans experience. I could say the same thing about you towards “people like myself”. For other issues that aren’t related to trans issues do you also think that people who don’t agree with you are lacking empathy? I know for a fact that there are people in this world who do not wish for you to live your life the way you do, whatever that may mean, and you do not concern yourself with their opinions. I do not think you speak for everyone and because you want third spaces doesn’t mean we all have to agree.

I don’t think that we will engage in this conversation long enough to enumerate every single point we believe in regarding this issue. Since you mentioned other settings for things like prisons I don’t think the current situation is ideal either. Something like requiring SRS surgery, 10 years on hormones, no transfers from male prisons, and no history of certain crimes makes sense to me as criteria for trans women in female prisons for instance. Because I have some semblance of wanting the right thing for those that experience gender dysphoria does not mean that I have a lack of concern for others.

I think that we need to be judged by our characters and not by having the original sin of being born male.

rainynights · 2023-05-07T04:20:02+00:00

Unfortunately I don’t have time to go into depth about my views of trans/gender variant people in history. I will try and reply tomorrow with some more of my thoughts.

It was either John Money or Robert Stoller who reapplied the term for how someone self-perceives in the form of "gender identity" in their questionable researchers. Then some English speaking feminists thought it was a good idea talking about "gender" instead of sex-based roles and stereotypes.

Trans people have existed before the term transsexual and the identity-aligning concepts it came with when it began to be used. People who attended drag balls and those who usually worked as exotic show girls a la Coccinelle, Bambi, and Amanda Lear when they were a part of the Le Carrousel act in the 1950 were usual suspects. Even before there was a well defined concept for transgender people transitioned and lived with this condition.

After my entire life of hearing how trans people were just mentally ill men in dresses from the media and society, hearing this view yet again is not going to change my mind. Many feminist women complain about men being reductive to the female experience and speaking about things that they will never understand. It seems like many GC women will say this yet then talk about knowing trans people better than they know themselves. I believe that this kind of behavior is not just applicable to men but also to people talking about trans issues. It’s very easy to reduce the TS condition down to something that can easily be lumped in with the jackhammer wielding burly construction worker if he donned a dress but to me that isn’t something that can be taken seriously.

It’s very easy to question whether or not trans people should be put on hormones as an outsider. To be honest, if I wasn’t trans I probably would be thinking along the same lines. However, I’ve known plenty of people who have been destroyed as teenagers as a result of alternative therapies I see a lot of proposals for. Electroshock therapy used to be more common in the 90s for trans people. Non-affirmative therapy (more akin to conversion therapy) was as well. As a teenager I saw these things destroy numerous people. It’s not something that I’m going to say should be used instead. We know how to take care of ourselves by self medicating and we will do so if needed. I never took puberty blockers since they didn’t exist when I started, I just did the classic route of taking enough hormones to get the job done. You might know more about them than me.

Regarding detransitioners, in many decades I only ever knew one destransitioner and they re-transitioned. I think that in the past those that knew they needed treatment sought it out and it wasn’t as popularized or in vogue. It’ll probably go back to being like that again eventually I would imagine.

rainynights · 2023-05-06T20:51:10+00:00

I appreciate the welcome and reply. It’s too bad that more people don’t contribute more since it seems like the discussion isn’t that bad here. Unfortunately these days everyone is extremely siloed into their own communities and aren’t able to cross over to “the other side” in a reasonable nor cordial manner.

It is my strongly held opinion that if GC people were in the same circumstances as people of trans experience then they would likely transition as well. They would also want to live their life normally and with dignity and would have a very different perspective than what they have now. The same goes for any kind person including if a trans person were instead born and lived their life as described by the horrific three letter epithet beginning with the letter C and ever so terribly ending with S. I think that humanizing the condition of gender dysphoria as something that, given the right circumstances, a person would rationally choose to transition because of is important when discussing these issues.

We seem to agree on the bathroom issue. For a good amount of people in the GC cult (just kidding) it appears like a lot of the disagreements on that front are due to whether or not TS women are able to pass. It seems to be a common belief that women of TS experience can never socially integrate into society as women and are always going to be complete outsiders… possibly also being the bestubbled owner of a harshly squared chin. From my personal experience I think that this issue is more nuanced than that and there are many different realities for the trans experience depending on how well one blends into the background of society.

No one, not the most conservative Republican or the most radical of radical feminists, wants to see trans people physically hurt or killed. The only people who want that are violent men, the gay bashers who have been going after GNC males since long before the trans movement started.

I find this mindset very common among people who are both supporters and detractors of TS people. However it degrades one’s quality of life to take things away from trans people such as resources for being able to transition (which we are currently seeing elements of in various states today) or making it technically illegal to use the public restroom that makes sense for how you look. While it’s not something that is tantamount to genocide it doesn’t create an environment that is that suitable for trans people in their own eyes. To extend that point further, trans people could surely live in insane asylums but it’s not much of a life. It doesn’t seem like people who are critical of trans people would really care if that happened just so long as they at least “weren’t murdered”. Maybe I’m reaching there but the “not my problem as long as I get my way even though it doesn't affect me beyond the realm of the conceptual '' attitude seems to be pretty common in various online discourse. In fact, on other places that I have read GC comments, variants of “not my problem” seems to be a common catchphrase to bleat after expressing a wish to restrict care that from a trans individual's perspective is critically important.

I apologize in advance for my unfeminine humor making light of our disagreements. My hormone shot is overdue and I’m feeling particularly indignant today.

rainynights · 2023-05-06T05:06:46+00:00

(4/4) Trans women will always be here and unfortunately they aren’t going to agree with you and are going to continue doing things necessary that we think we need to live our lives. I do believe that while I’m not the same as a non-trans woman, I am a kind of woman regardless of what others think. I suppose many more fundamentalist adherents to various religions have an even worse fate in mind for “people like me”. To survive in the past one had to adopt this mentality. In the past trans women had to be tough as nails to live our lives. We are a class of people that will continue living this life to the bitter end and unfortunately that is something that people will have to deal with. I have heard first hand accounts of trans women avoiding getting forcibly lobotomized in the 1960s by relatives who were trying to commit them. In that world they survived with their brain in-tact and lived their lives. The same will continue to happen today regardless of what the future holds.

As a transsexual I am not living in costume. I cannot take away the decades of hormones, surgeries, silicone, and my natural tendencies. I am and always have been myself and implying that I can just live as a man in the world is deeply misguided and incorrect. From my perspective I am no more in costume than you being in costume by not taking testosterone yourself.

—

Hopefully this conveyed my views and experiences accurately. I hope that I didn’t skip any points you made since this was a lot and thanks again for sharing your perspective!

[1] https://zagria.blogspot.com/2008/10/caroline-cossey-1954-model.html

[2] https://zagria.blogspot.com/2014/05/octavia-st-laurent-1964-2009-performer.html

[3] https://zagria.blogspot.com/2009/10/luiza-bambine-moreira-1964-model.html

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Mock

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Ashley

[6] https://zagria.blogspot.com/2011/06/amanda-lepore-1967-model-performer.html

rainynights · 2023-05-06T05:15:41+00:00

Thank you for your reply. I believe that eventually this particular facet of the culture war will calm down. There will always be people who negatively fixate on trans people for various reasons but transsexuals also need to live a life as well regardless of how others attempt to control and restrict it.

rainynights · 2023-05-06T05:06:34+00:00

(3/4)

you're ignoring the fact [you] people will never have the same experiences than females, regardless of how much hormones you take, how many surgeries you undergo or much effort you put on emulating the stereotypical dressing and mannerisms of women, and so on.

Please tell me if I’m not correct but I sense that you see trans women as being the exact same as men with the same socialization. I do not agree with that and believe that trans women have a unique socialization and experience that is separate from non-trans men and women. It seems to be an important point to those that are GC to be able to lump TS in with normal men to be able to make points. I will never agree with that.

I am myself, not an emulation or copy. I transitioned to live my life as I am and don’t owe anybody anything. I am a transsexual woman. I think that reducing us down to being the exact same as men is not correct. I think it’s comical to think that a normal looking trans woman lives the same life as a man in how people treat you and how you fit into society. It’s easy to do online or by saying that you knew a few 50 year old guys who put on a wig and never looked back but for those of us where this has always been us I will never accept that as being anything other than misinformed.

you have not considered at all how the bathroom's issue affects women, not only in the US, but in all the other countries where "affirmation" has become the norm. Indeed, it seems you feel threatened by "modern transgender people" because women may assert their boundaries with all trans identified males. Nevertheless trans identified males, BOTH "old school transsexuals" and the "modern transgender people", have inserted themselves in former women-only spaces, not only in public bathrooms, but also changing rooms, spas, sports, hospital wards, refugees, prisons, and so on. Women were not consulted for this and when we tried to assert our boundaries you all (i.e. both groups of trans identified males) you kept going on. You STILL keep going on. In some cases, some of you have responded to dissenting women with threats of rape and violence, trying to get them fired from their jobs or "cancelled", or even with actual violence.

Both men and women don’t want us in their spaces. There are always going to be women who are not comfortable with trans women in the restroom. I personally think that you need to go to the restroom that makes sense for you to go in based on how you look. That is what I have always done and will continue to do. I am an individual and need to look out for myself first, I cannot perfectly satisfy the wishes that everyone has for how I live my life. If I tried to do that I would never have transitioned in the first place.

As a teenager I survived being beaten up. I’ve been stabbed and assaulted. This was unprovoked at the hands of boys and men. This wasn’t that uncommon for trans women back then. I will continue to live as I am and that is not something that I am going to change.

I’m not sure about what you mean by rape threats and how that relates to me. I have never threatened anyone with rape and am confused about how I am involved in that.

Both groups seems completely disinterested in how much their actions hurts women. Both groups seems completely disinterested on how women may find offensive to be defined based on a bunch of sexist stereotypes or how offensive is to see our biology and our experiences be treated like a costume. Both groups ignore also how much their actions are setting the hard-earned women's rights back. [...] And yet you won't go to the men's bathrooms. [...] Apparently third spaces are othering and akin to racial segregation. Funny, though, how we women don't feel othered by not sharing the bathrooms with men, don't you think?

For most of my adult life I haven’t interacted with other trans women. I’ve been an individual who has been able to live my life more comfortably by transitioning and just living my life. While you may think that I am hurting women as a whole by going into the restroom (I’m fine with that), I don’t agree with it. There are men in the world who don’t want to share a restroom with me either if I was so inclined to go into one. Does your opinion matter more than theirs? In my life I have to look after myself first and foremost and there have always been people who are against trans people and want to restrict them as much as possible. To live life as a trans person you have to realize and accept that (and people are allowed to think it) but I’ve dealt with enough people who are against me despite not knowing me that it doesn’t affect me. I believe if you were a trans person yourself you would likely come to similar conclusions. Most places do not have a third space bathroom. I have enough self respect to use the restroom that I look like I belong for and not make a political point that others would like me to make.

rainynights · 2023-05-06T05:05:53+00:00

(2/4)

You focused a lot on how much people like you need all those medical procedures and that you all were/are willing to risk everything for them; unlike the modern "transgender people", who are only following a trend. However, if people like you would have born at the early 19th century, you couldn't have access them not matter what because they didn't exist. So, how much is this need innate? How much has said need arised by the very new existence (in terms of human history) of said procedures?

I think that there are lots of trans women today that are not following trends. However I do see a second kind of person who is claiming to be a part of this condition when it is very clearly not their experience or the correct thing in life for them. Gender dysphoria and changing one's secondary sex characteristics is central to a transsexuals life and saying you are trans and speaking for all transsexuals in the public without it is deeply offensive to those who have died or otherwise been seriously affected as a result of this condition.

Regardless of what you think of Magnus Hirschfeld, the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft certainly collected sexology works describing peoples with gender non conforming presentation dating back in the 19th century which were subsequently all burned by the Nazis. There have been books written about (what I will refer to as) gender-variant experiences in the late 19th century New York such as Autobiography of an Androgyne. Additionally, even throughout western history we can see cross-sex identities which have historically been classified as “just” being “more homosexual history” rather than as a separate idea. While we cannot color these historical accounts with modern language certainly there have always been people who would take hormone therapy if it existed that have been around since the beginning of history. We can see both gender-variant male and female sexed peoples documented in many Sumerian writings which are among the oldest written works that we have in general, regardless of the trans topic. In the early 20th century in Russia and Germany there have been documented medical procedures for trans people (this is not confusing these operations with intersex ones).

To this end there will always be trans people who transition and have medical procedures. Trans care originated because trans people were not able to do these things legitimately and were acting out of desperation. This isn’t something new or will ever change. I have witnessed horrific side effects from bad medical care in the trans community and pushing it backwards to how it was previously is extremely short sighted. I have seen brow bones that were shaved down so thin that the sinus shattered when bumping into someone else. There are many cases of holes being left in the sinus bone that caused the skin to bulge up due to air bubbles when breathing through the nose. Jaw bones and gums disintegrating causing all of a trans woman’s bottom teeth to fall out from being poorly shaved. Countless complications and even deaths from silicone injections. Strokes from shoddy doctors, the list goes on and on. I haven’t even mentioned SRS surgery and the horrors that manipulative doctors have inflicted on the trans population. My own best friend took her life as a result of a botched SRS surgery that she was pressured into having on a budget. Contrary to the beliefs of lots of GC people, many trans people are satisfied with their SRS results… I am myself personally. All of these were because trans people were desperate enough to seek care from doctors that weren’t well trained, didn’t care, and wanted to exploit trans women since they are an easy target. Almost all of these surgeries happened outside of the US by unqualified doctors that trans women felt desperate enough to turn to.

I disagree that back then there was actual "gatekeeping". I've read the old diagnostic criteria and they still relied on sexist stereotypes, unsurprisingly. [...] once you rule out biology to define who is a woman or a man, you're only left with stereotypes. [...] "gatekeeping" could be bypassed if you have enough money and [...] middle aged males who were sexually attract to females, have fathered children and had very "manly" jobs declaring suddenly they were "transsexuals" and got all the hormones and surgeries done. So, how can you tell who is and who is not a "true trans".

The Harry Benjamin Standards of Care did include sexist stereotypes. However, adding more checks and balances to the transition process is something that we could benefit from in many places that provide trans care. It will always be possible for trans people to self medicate with hormones but in the ideal scenario some semblance of psychological oversight is not a bad thing. I think that even though it wasn’t perfect there were some good elements of the gender care protocols of yesteryear.

I do not agree with transitioning after having children and being married. I don’t think that’s right but that is not something that I have experience with since I have only ever been with men my entire life. While it seems to be clear to me that you don’t accept trans people as being a separate group from “normal men”, I have come to know that we are. I don’t have the answers to solve everything but I do know that we are a real group of people and while there are problems right now but we aren’t going to go away.

I think that it is easy to classify all trans people as being in one or two buckets such as what Ray Blanchard does with the HSTS/AGP distinction but I think that is reductive to the condition. I think that there are many causes for transsexualism that we don’t fully understand yet and it’s not just one or two simple conditions. Much of the sexological research on trans people has been done by men with questionable motives. I think that we are an extremely varied group of people and it is reductive to simplify the condition down to an easy to digest number of causes.

Historically in the transsexual community the mentality was that you either “got it or you don’t” based on energy one gives off. The nebulous “know it when I see it” mentality is caused by trans people facing the mystery of our condition. From a first person perspective living this life does have an element of nebulousness that needs to be accepted. It’s difficult to navigate and fully realize yourself while trying to deal with the “why” of gender dysphoria during the first decade of transition. People always want a simple explanation like “they must have been molested as a child” or “they’re just a self hating gay” but I have come to realize that is much too simple.

All of this, plus the shoddy science done by the doctors working on "gender medicine", the fact that not other mental issue is treated the same way (e.g. nobody recommends liposuction for people with anorexia nervosa) and the well-known health problems produced for these elective surgeries and the usage of exogenous hormones is enough, I think, to question the wisdom of "gender affirmement treatments" for anyone but, ESPECIALLY, for children and teens.

Trans healthcare started being standardized because trans women will go to any length to get these procedures out of desperation. To many trans people there is nothing more important than these things in their life. When a person is pushed to that level of desperation things get ugly when doctors that are known to exploit the trans population get involved. That isn’t something that is going to change and throwing up your hands saying you don’t like it and not providing any alternatives to that, I don’t think, is the right solution to a problem that isn’t going to go away. In the past trans women had to travel to other countries to get operations done and many still do. That’s been the case even since the days of the French Le Carrousel.

I want to reduce people’s harm, not increase it because transsexuals will continue to exist regardless of what legislation happens. In the 1980s when crossdressing laws were in effect we just got arrested over and over and hoping that wearing a male watch with the clothes we wanted was sufficient enough to say we were in male clothing. The rule of thumb for jail that I was always told by other trans women who have gone was that you have a couple days to find a man to be your boyfriend to have protection so that you wouldn’t get forcibly raped but could at least prepare for sex with the man that is protecting you. This isn’t me exaggerating but rather relaying true facts from trans women of the past. That is if they let you into gen pop and didn’t keep you in solitary. I have heard of trans women going insane because of being raped too many times in prison and being put alone in solitary for years at a time. This was in the early 2000s.

rainynights · 2023-05-06T05:03:51+00:00

(1/4) Firstly I want to thank you for taking the time to write out your perspective on this issue. You have written a lot that I want to reply to so apologies in advance for how long this comment is. I don’t expect anyone to read it all if I’m going to be completely honest but it is out there as a sequel to my original post :-). I’ve had to break it into multiple comments. We definitely disagree and hopefully you are alright with that. Seeing that there is a lot of emotion and vitriol tied up in discussions of transgenderism I don’t plan on changing any opinions. I sure think you will have a hard time changing mine since I have gone to hell and back to live in this world and am at peace with my life. I understand and respect your position but will never agree with it since my life experiences have informed me otherwise. I do not expect those that haven’t experienced something similar to fully understand the issues that are central to a trans person’s life. I want to both listen and share my perspective as well as have a good back and forth.

Something that I think is very common is for people to dehumanize trans individuals and see them as characters or some kind of unified collective. I could be wrong but I sense this sentiment in your post with your usage of statements like “people like you”. Trans people are individuals and we are driven by the condition of gender dysphoria. I very strongly believe that if you personally faced the same issues and reality that a transsexual woman faced you would also transition and want to stand up for yourself in society since we are all humans with different experiences and starting points in this life.

It is my opinion that the trans population conceptually lives on many different fault line boundaries. These boundaries demarcate ideas in language, society, and socialization. Central to the GC/TS debate are the differences between male and female in the aforementioned categories. In many cases trans people don’t fit perfectly on exactly one side of these boundaries and exist on both. Society has been built upon these boundaries and cracks start to form when people such as transsexuals feel like we have no choice but to live our life eschewing them. I believe that there will always be disagreements for how to deal with transsexuals since the situation is complex.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like quite the overstatement. First, who exactly did want people like you not to exist? Disagreeing with your views [...] is not the same as wanting you not to exist.

A lot of people are not aware of, have not experienced, or have forgotten how bad things used to be for trans people in the United States. I can’t speak for those in other countries since that is not my experience but have heard frightening stories from people in South America. This extends to LGBT people in general but trans women especially had unique problems and were also not welcomed in LGB spaces in the past since they “didn’t know what to do” with us. These issues were not merely disagreements but significant obstacles that trans women had to overcome. When trans women such as Caroline Cossey[1], Octavia St. Laurent[2], Roberta Close[3], Janet Mock[4], April Ashley[5], and Amanda Lepore[6] overcame these obstacles and made it big it was amazing to us who never thought we could achieve something so fantastical in life as trans women.

Not too long ago it was very common to get let go from jobs if a trans person’s trans status was revealed. In fact, I have experienced this first hand. The same goes for housing. Many trans individuals were forced into survival sex work and that image has persisted with trans women being strongly associated with porn. The 1980s and 90s were particularly unforgiving to trans women with the majority of us living in bad situations. Even today trans women are among the lowest if not the lowest income group of people in the United States. It was not uncommon for police to give you a hard time as a transsexual and many police forces flat out refused to investigate trans murders deeply if at all. Many men have gotten away with killing and attacking trans women in the past and our murders were relegated to being just “another dead tranny hooker” not worthy of serious investigation. This wasn’t “only” relegated to trans sex workers either since it is quite common to explain away these deaths as them “asking for it” by those who dislike the trans population. Even someone as famous as Eddy Murphy, a known chaser and abuser of trans sex workers within the trans community, got away with the murder of a trans woman named Shalimar Seiuli. As recently as the early 00s and especially back in the 1980s and 90s I personally know of cases where doctors would refuse to treat trans women because they didn't want to be associated with trans patients. Trans people were seen as untrustworthy for not being honest about their sex; what else could they be lying about? Doctors didn’t want to deal with that and it sounds like perhaps you could still agree with this viewpoint. Many trans women were refused treatment when presenting with cases of AIDs, cancer, complications with injections of free floating silicone, etc. This caused a significant amount of deaths in the trans community that is not well talked about today.

In the media trans people were commonly the subject of jokes and not taken seriously. It was hard to move beyond stereotypes that made trans women out to be some kind of pornographic concept as well as murderers and people that shouldn’t be trusted. The late Jerry Springer, another famous piece of trans-sex-worker-consuming trade, made a lot of money exploiting poor trans women to come onto his show and make fools of themselves for a quick buck. A lot of the stereotypes about being deceivers, in my opinion, are directly tied to the release of the book The Transsexual Empire which significantly hurt the image and standing of transsexuals in the US in the late 1970s due to anti-trans activism. I view this activism as contributing to the death of many trans women in the late 20th century through the various avenues I have previously outlined.

All of this combined created an environment where I am comfortable saying that there are times in the not-too-distant past where large swaths of American society did not want transsexual people to exist and would rather ignore any issues they had. Things have changed very dramatically in the past couple decades but the true nature of people is still there.

Second, exogenous hormones and elective surgeries can only alter your appearance so much. [...] I remain skeptical that someone could fool ALL the people ALL the time. IME, people like you not only often overestimate how much they pass irl [...] but they also underestimate how much people are willing to play along [...]

This view has helped many transsexuals blend into the woodwork in the past and it will continue to help us into the future. Certainly what you said is true for many trans people but it can be surprising. In the 80s and 90s trans girls self medicated on the streets with DES, Premarin, or if you were so lucky, the black market German Estradiol Valerate being peddled in 1990s NYC that had rave reviews. After a while you could see a doctor and blow their mind with how you looked enough to get them to write a prescription of legitimate hormones. It was known that if you could walk with no makeup in a bad neighborhood during the day in the past you were not going to get clocked so easily.

rainynights