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GC: What words should be used instead of "trans", "transition", "sex change", and "sex assignment"? by Tea_Or_Coffee in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The "assigned X at birth" bothers me. Sex is determined at conception and can't change. It seems like its mostly being used to distance people from their biological sex when they wish they were born the opposite sex. Trans-women not "assigned male at birth", they are male, and vice-versa for trans-men. Why is it offensive to acknowledge reality? Just because someone doesn't dress or behave in a way expected by society of their sex, doesn't make them not that sex.

GC: What are your arguments against "lesbians and trans men are men in women's bodies" and "gay men and trans women are women in men's bodies"? by CuteAsDuck in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well for one there is no such thing as "male" and "female" brains. Sure there are brain differences that are more common in one sex or the other, but this doesn't make them male or female brains.

Human males are typically taller than women. Does this mean a 5' 2" man has "female" legs? Does this make a 6' 1" woman part male?

GC & QT: What are your views? by PeakingPeachEater in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

1) I guess I'm neither. I probably lean GC as I agree with them more often. I do think gender (or something like it) is real but that its largely tied to biological sex in most people (i.e. Even if we took away all sexism and expectations there would still be differences in the way that men and women behave and the types of jobs they tend to do. Obviously there are people that differ and that should never be a bad thing).

2) I was QT until some of the more extreme points started to become mainstream (i.e. having biological males in girls sports, giving HRT without extensive psyche evaluations, puberty blockers being commonly advocate for).

3) Man is an adult biologically male human. Woman is an adult biologically female human.

4) Transwomen are males with gender/sex dysphoria. Transmen are females with gender/sex dysphoria. Dysphoria is a real mental health condition. Some people do best with transition. Some do best with therapy. Children should never be given medical transition as most evidence shows that puberty usually alleviates their dysphoria. Research into the causes and best treatments should be done but unfortunately activists often get in the way. There are many people online who claim to be trans but don't have dysphoria. These people are a mix, i.e. AGP fetishists, people who think that because they are GNC that they can't be their sex, people looking for attention and woke points, etc.

5) I prefer 'natal' or 'biological' to cis.

6) No. Its not safe or fair. With the exception of sports that are co-ed/mixed anyways.

7) Maliciously calling someone by the wrong name / pronouns with the intent of upsetting them.

8) Gender is the typical behaviors and presentation associated with a sex. Sex is what gametes your body developed with the goal of producing (even if you never actually produce any gametes).

9) My sister and her wife are GC. Most of my college friends are QT.

10) I'm not public about my views

11) Neither.

12) That GC feminists aren't killing trans people, nor do they (most of them at least) want any transpeople to be harmed.

Extra (optional--Put N/A if you choose not to answer, it's okay) 1) Bi but mostly date men.

2) Natal woman

3) North America

Why does QT hate transmedicalists? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transmeds/Truscum believe that sex dysphoria and being trans is a mental illness for which transition is treatment. Transmeds (correctly) view sex and gender as binary. They want to fit in with that binary. Rose of Dawn, Blaire White, and Buck Angel are all Transmed.

Tucute/QT believe that being trans is an identity that people 'discover' and that anyone can be any gender. They think sex and gender are a spectrum/social construct and anyone can be anything. QT doesn't like Transmed bc they are supporting the sex binary.

GC & QT: Where should we draw the line between human rights and entitlement? by Penultimate_Penance in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Rights are based on things that are needed for survival and function in society. Entitlements or Privileges are things that might be nice or make life easier but are not necessity.

The right to free speech and the right to vote aren't exactly needed for individual survival, but its needed for societal function. These rights to come with some harms. People will say things that are upsetting. People will elect idiots. But the alternative is worse.

Participating in the sports league of your choice and having sex with/dating specific people are privileges.

Bodily Autonomy is a right for consenting adults, not children. Children and teens do not understand the long-term effects of their choices and have poor risk management skills. Bodily autonomy also only works when adults understand the choice they are really making. Plastic surgeons lying to patients and exaggerating the benefits of their procedures violates this right.

GC: If race and ethnicity are social constructs and have no biological basis because humans share most if not all of their genes with each other, how can biological sex be real and not be a social construct? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Everything is a construct. Why have words with meanings?

Also, its not the number of genes that are different that matters, its which specific genes and what their effects are.

Differences between males and females is far greater than differences between ethnic groups. Our social construct of race is fairly new. Our understanding of sex differences is older than the stone age. People have understood, for many thousands of years, that males were typically bigger and stronger, had penises, and couldn't get pregnant or give birth.

GC: Are we reducing people to their reproductive organs/ability? Is gender identity a mental illness? And if so, what are the similarities between gender identity and other mental illnesses? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If its not a mental illness, then I guess hormone therapy and surgeries are no longer necessary? If it was just an identity, then why the need to radically alter your body?

Uterus transplants for trans women are coming by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The amount of drugs and hormones that would be required to prevent rejection can't be good for any child produced via a transplanted uterus.

How should trans identity be treated? by Throwaway112 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think some people do have genuine dysphoria and they should receive medical treatment, however I don't think that transition should ever be the first option.

I do think that some kind of research needs to be done on the dramatic increase in dysphoria cases in young girls, its definitely troubling and shouldn't be written off as "them finding themselves" or whatever.

Being trans typically involves costly surgeries and unstudied hormone therapies, which makes trans issues VERY different from gay issues and they need to be separated. Gay people want to live their lives and love who they love, no elaborate medicalization required.

People need to stop getting upset at reality. I saw an argument on FB where someone was called "transphobic" for calling themselves a "biological woman" and that they should, instead, call themselves a "cis woman" (I don't even really like calling myself a 'cis woman'. I'm guessing 'natal woman' would be transphobic too). There argument was that by saying they were a biological woman, that transwomen were not really women. The vast majority of trans people are do not have intersex disorders; they are otherwise normal males and females. Its not hateful to discuss reality. Transwomen may wish they were biologically female; that doesn't make it so. I wish I was 4 inches taller and 20 pounds lighter, doesn't make it so and its not hate to point out my real height and weight. I'll call people by their chosen name and pronouns, but I'm not going to participate in the delusion of acting like they really are the sex they wish they were.

Biological women (and men) have sex-based rights and a right to single-sex spaces; segregated by sex, not gender identity. That doesn't mean all spaces need to be separated based on sex, just that they should exist. Victims of DV have the right to single-sex shelters if that is where they feel most comfortable.

I honestly have probably gone more to the right on this issue over the years. I first thought it was just that people wanted to identify one way but acknowledged that it wasn't reality and just wanted access to basic necessities and job protection (which I'm still for, no one should be kicked out of their home or job for being trans).

Vancouver Rape Relief GoFundMe canceled by SilverSlippers in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sort of, this is the only one that is single sex. Many female DV victims don't want to be housed with males, regardless of how they identify. Many 'progressive' shelters are mixed sex, sorting people by gender identity instead of sex, which leads to mixed sex rooms and very uncomfortable women.

Of course transwomen who are DV victims need a shelter, but they do not need to be housed with biological women because (1) their needs as groups are often different and (2) many women are uncomfortable being housed with stranger males, which is a pretty deep-rooted fear for us.

Vancouver Rape Relief GoFundMe canceled

by SilverSlippers to /s/GCdebatesQT from self.GCdebatesQT

Both: What do you think of the new Super Straight movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah. That pissed me off more than banning the sub, which was predictable. People can still donate directly but GoFundMe's have momentum. Hopefully everyone who gets their donation returned donates directly. Vancouver Rape Relief is one of the only remaining shelters in Canada that doesn't house males.

GC: What are the issues with defining sex as both primary and secondary sex characteristics, rather than only primary sex characteristics? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is why I dislike the combination of gender identity and sex that's happened in recent years. So many activists are using male/female for gender identity, which is confusing and annoying. Are people who bleach their hair really blonde? No. I honestly don't care how people identify and present themselves, just stop trying to deny reality.

In that scenario you mentioned, the person identifies as a man but is still female, and is not less of a female than any other female.

PCOS causes many women to grow facial hair, are they somehow less female? No. They are still 100% female.

GC: Male and female sex organs are the same things (e.g. penises are large clitorises, and clitorises are small penises) which means there is no such a thing as a male or female sex organ by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Okay. So I looked it up. SRY activates at 6 weeks, and the unborn human is considered a fetus at 10 weeks. So you are right there, I wasn't well versed on when an embryo becomes a fetus.

Anyway, sex is obviously there at conception, but gonad and genital tissue doesn't differentiate until 6 - 8 weeks.

GC: Male and female sex organs are the same things (e.g. penises are large clitorises, and clitorises are small penises) which means there is no such a thing as a male or female sex organ by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Clitoris and penis are not the same thing. They are formed from the same tissue in embryonic development. Fetuses prior to sex differentiation have all the same sex organs because the organs haven't developed yet, just the base tissue that they will form from. After sex differentiation they have different organs. In the same way that both hair and fingernails are made from the same base tissue, yet develop along different pathways and become different structures.

QT: Do you support free speech? by pollyesther in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think people should get fired for things they say outside of work as long as they aren't calling for violence or harassing other employees.

Why should sex be determined by gametes of all things, and not genes, hair color, shape of nose, height, blood type, etc? Isn't that an arbitrary categorization? And how can sex be binary when there is variation (intersex), and the sex organs of females exist in males and vice versa? by Tea_Or_Coffee in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SilverSlippers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Male, female, asexual, both? Ok, Google says some gendered species can switch to asexual reproduction, so maybe there are five sexes.

Facultative asexual reproduction happens only in female individuals, and they are still female though. The offspring are all clones of their mothers.

GC: Humans are one of the few species with two sexes. There are species with four, thousands, or an unlimited number of sexes, which means "male" and "female" are social constructs and not universal categories that can be applied to other species by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Though Google says some species can switch from sexual reproduction to asexual reproduction, so there are five sexes

This is also very wrong. Yes, there are animals that can engage in both sexual and asexual reproduction. No, these animals aren't a new sex. They don't produce a new type of gamete. They are all female with the ability to clone themselves. The offspring of asexual reproduction are clones. Sex brings genetic diversity which is why it evolved. Genetic diversity helps organisms adapt to changing environments better.

GC: Why should sex be determined by gametes of all things, and not genes, hair color, shape of nose, height, blood type, etc? Isn't that an arbitrary categorization? And how can sex be binary when there is variation (intersex), and the sex organs of females exist in males and vice versa? by Tea_Or_Coffee in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People with different blood types don't function differently. People with blood type O don't have greater muscle mass than people with blood type A.

Sperm and eggs are required for making a new human. There are no speggs. Two sperm or two eggs cannot make a new human. Sometimes there are people who can't produce gametes. Intersex variations are disorders in the sense that their bodies don't function as they should. That doesn't mean they can't live long happy lives with minimal impact, just as people with heart defects or extra fingers can. Why does having a birth defect of your genitals somehow make you a new kind of human? Are people with an extra finger a new species? Why do we treat congenial defects of the reproductive system differently than any other kind of medical issue? There are people who are born with only 3 heart chambers, does that make them half lizard? There are people born with a small tail, are they more primitive that people who aren't? Occasionally a human will be born with a small gill slit, are they part fish? The answer to all of these is obviously no, they are human. Just as women with enlarged clitoris (which looks like a penis, but isn't one) are still women. Men with excessive breast tissue are still men. The vast majority of intersex people have repeatedly stated that they don't like being part of the gender debate and that they don't like being called a 'third sex' or something else othering.

Saying 'male" and "female" is so much simpler than "people whose bodies were developed around the potential to produce eggs".

GC: How can sex be unchangeable, when the body constantly changes? And throughout evolution, unicellular organisms transitioned and changed to the multicellular organisms we call humans? by Tea_Or_Coffee in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When someone with brown hair dyes their hair blonde, will that affect what hair color their children have?

If you lose a leg are you still human?

Aging process =/= sex differentiation. Two totally different processes.

GC: What are the definitions of male and female? How would intersex people fit into binary sex? And is calling the intersex condition a disorder (of sexual development) discriminatory towards intersex people? by Tea_Or_Coffee in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do people keep asking the same questions over and over? Seriously. Read the threads before asking. This is getting boring explaining the same thing to what feels like the same people over and over again.

Female = you have a body that developed around the ability to produce eggs. Even a developmental disorder or medical treatment means you never are able to produce a single egg, you are still female. Your body developed in utero to produce eggs.

Male = same thing with sperm.

GC: Thoughts on xenogenders and neopronouns? Why should "male" and "female" not be defined to mean one's gender besides sex? And if gender identity is not a real thing, why do cis, trans, nonbinary, etc people exist who have an internal sense of whether they're male, female, both, or neither? by MissDimples in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah that's kinda what I've been noticing being outside of the woke campus bubble. I mean they think that everyone has a gender identity. I kinda started leaving after (1) I graduated and got a real job; and (2) Started noticing someone of the really illogical stuff they were doing - like advocating for all sports to effectively be co-ed; and (3) how vicious they got after the whole JKR thing - I've been a fan of hers for a long time and when the whole thing came out I read her article and it was like not offensive or rude or violent at all and they were all acting like it was now unacceptable to continue to read/watch the Harry Potter series.

GC: Thoughts on xenogenders and neopronouns? Why should "male" and "female" not be defined to mean one's gender besides sex? And if gender identity is not a real thing, why do cis, trans, nonbinary, etc people exist who have an internal sense of whether they're male, female, both, or neither? by MissDimples in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the USA; granted I was hanging around a super liberal/woke crowd on/around a college campus at the time and have since kind of distanced myself from them. I do think that separate words for gender identity and biological sex are something that we should have. Or perhaps have words for trans people that distinguishes them as trans, i.e. just transwoman or transman. I really don't like how, at least around the really woke people, the terminology for stuff that is considered PC vs. "problematic" keeps changing. Part of why started trying to distance myself from that group, among many other issues that started cropping up.

GC: Thoughts on xenogenders and neopronouns? Why should "male" and "female" not be defined to mean one's gender besides sex? And if gender identity is not a real thing, why do cis, trans, nonbinary, etc people exist who have an internal sense of whether they're male, female, both, or neither? by MissDimples in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Several years ago "man" and "woman" referred to gender identify while "male" and "female" referred to biological sex. Had it stayed there, I would have had no problem. I don't like the whole constantly moving goal posts part of current 'activism'; its confusing at best and off-putting at worst.

This is a test created by TIMs for other prospective TIMs to test if they have real ladybrain. Test yourself and find out! by gendercritfem in GenderCritical

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I got -100, whatever the hell that means. The questions were very stereotyped. Being a woman according to this test consists of: dressing pretty, being empathic, and being bad at math. No mention or any real concerns that most natal women have. Plus weird questions about sexual arousal and hugging.

GC: Thoughts on xenogenders and neopronouns? Why should "male" and "female" not be defined to mean one's gender besides sex? And if gender identity is not a real thing, why do cis, trans, nonbinary, etc people exist who have an internal sense of whether they're male, female, both, or neither? by MissDimples in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not really GC.

Using 'male' and 'female' to define gender identity instead of sex is confusing and is part of what is kinda drawing me to the GC side of things. I don't give a fuck what people want to identify as. Just recognize that you can't really change your biology. Keep terminology for gender identity and biological sex separate.

Just because someone identifies as something doesn't make it true. There are people who identify as a different race. There are people who identify as animals. Doesn't mean its valid. That being said, gender dysphoria is real and causes distress. For some people, transition and living as the opposite sex provides relief. For others, it doesn't help. I don't like the current trend of rejecting all non-transition therapies as 'conversion therapy'. I think that the term transgender should be exclusive for people with severe dysphoria for whom transition has been determined to be the best treatment for them to live a happy life.

Edit: Also, please stop using "assigned sex" to refer to people who are born with typical genitalia. Sex is observed at birth (or before really) in 99% of the population. The term "assigned sex" is/was used for people who are born with their sex not obvious, i.e. intersex conditions.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. This is a better way of putting what I was trying to get at.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wasn't talking about 'meaning in the universe' or any of that philosophical nonsense. I was talking about the point of life from a biological perspective; which is evolution. Our bodies, our brains, everything about us and every other organism on this planet evolved to be good a making copies of themselves. The universe is meaningless, just following the laws of physics. Living things are the only matter in the universe that have any sense of purpose - which is to copy themselves.

GC: What's with the gendered languages? Most people say words like "glamorous", "pretty", "cute", etc, can not be used to describe men because they are "feminine" adjectives, and insulting to men. Does any GC here believe reserving those mentioned adjectives for only women is misogynistic? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Men can 100% be glamorous and beautiful and all of that. It doesn't make them less male.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Humans don’t develop to produce gametes as that implies an intent that is absent in nature.

Actually in a purely biological/evolutionary sense we do exist to produce gametes. The sole evolutionary purpose of any feature is to increase the changes of successful reproduction. Making babies the the only intent in nature.

The 'binary model breaking down' is actually variety of mechanisms that cause embryos to fail to develop properly, not new sexes or in-between sexes or whatever you think exists. People with intersex conditions are 100% worthy human beings who deserve all the same rights as anyone else. However, from a biological perspective, they are evolutionary dead ends.

GC: Why are penises, testes, etc considered strictly male organs, and vaginas, uteruses, etc strictly female organs? What's wrong with the view that women have penises, etc too and can produce sperm, or that men have vaginas, uteruses, etc too and can get pregnant? by BubblyBrush in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

at can kill you in few weeks or months. Changing genetics after body already formed will not change the body, it will only change instructions to regenerate injuries and so it can lead to cancer or other problems.

For this to work, this must be performed during first weeks of pregnancy. And changing genes is not even really needed, all is needed is activation or deactivation of SRY gene and anti-Mullerian hormones.

Yup. The reality is that the genetic code isn't altered. The pregnancy is aborted if the parents want a different sex (usually they abort girls).

More Concern Over the Online Art Community by Sistersovermisters in GenderCritical

[–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, kinda disturbing. DeviantArt has a very similar community to Tumblr, so its unfortunately not surprising. Fantasizing about cosmetic surgery is now 'woke'.

(Annd as a biology nerd, that's not even anatomically correct for the type of animal that the character is supposed to be...)

GC: Why are penises, testes, etc considered strictly male organs, and vaginas, uteruses, etc strictly female organs? What's wrong with the view that women have penises, etc too and can produce sperm, or that men have vaginas, uteruses, etc too and can get pregnant? by BubblyBrush in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

WTF? We've had this question probably a million times.

Sex is biological and about how reproduction happens. However someone chooses to identify is irrelevant. A male who identifies as a woman is still male and her organs are still male organs because they produce sperm.

Humans are just like every other mammal in that we have two sexes, determined by chromosomes. We are not special. The definition of sexes is about gametes that they can potentially produce. That's why there will never be "female testes", its an oxymoron.

The more I hear stupid ass arguments like this the more frustrated I get with the modern gender movement. I'm fine with people identifying how they want and using whatever names or pronouns they want, but this is complete bullshit. Sex is real and matters.

GC: what are the definitions of male and female that do not exclude cis men and cis women who don't produce sperm or egg or removed their genitals? by BubblyBrush in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly this.

Your sex is based on the type of gametes your body developed to produce. If you have a SRY gene & androgen receptors, your body will develop along a path that ideally leads to sperm production. Even if something goes wrong and you never produce sperm, or later have the testes removed, your body still DEVELOPED with the intention of producing sperm and thus you are male. I.e. Men with Klinefelter's syndrome have an extra X chromosome, causing their bodies to produce higher than normal levels of estrogen. They still have an SRY gene and androgen receptors, so they still develop organs to produce sperm even though the high estrogen level typically makes the testes non-functional.

Conversely if you don't have an SRY gene or androgen receptors, your body will develop along a path geared towards egg production and you will be female. I.e. Women with CAIS have an SRY gene but no androgen receptors and thus as fetuses they develop along a female path, even though they don't develop a uterus or ovaries. They will appear female at birth and be raised as girls. Most women with this don't even find out until later in life when they never get a period or can't get pregnant.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm glad.

I think the age for hormones & other medical transition should be 18. Children cannot consent to irreversible medical procedures & drugs. I think people who were pushed to transition as children & later detransition as adults should be compensated somehow for the pain and stress they went through.

QT: What accounts for the following discrepancies (regarding sex ratios, sexualities, ASD & lots more sex ratios)? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This all just points to differences in behavior that are due to sex. No matter how someone identifies, they are still their birth sex and will still behave like their birth sex even when they think they are being presenting as the opposite gender. Men are more likely to be violent, likely due to a mix of both socialization & male biology, no matter how they identify. Women are more influenced by what their peers are doing. Hormones and surgery done later in life cannot undo socialization or the effect of hormones on brain development. Even when puberty is stopped (which is a terrible idea), there was still the effect of hormones on fetal development.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ahh. Yeah, if she knew what her father did and appointed him w/o informing, then yeah. She's in the wrong.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a bit confused from the news reports. I thought it was Aimee's father that was the pedophile? If that's the case, as I think it is, I don't see the issue. Trans or not what crime's someone's parent/s commit has no bearing on what their children should be allowed to do. I don't care what someone's parent/sibling/aunt/etc did, I care what they do. As long as Aimee was not involved with or aware of her father's crimes, there shouldn't be an issue (which is pretty common, many pedophiles and murderer's have families who have no idea what their husband/father is doing).

GC: Can you explain why gender identity does not exist? Don't cisgender people identify as/feel like they are the sex they were assigned at birth? Don't other animals identify as their sex assigned at birth due to lack of cognitive ability to identify as anything but their own sex? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

1) My sex isn't part of my identity anymore than my hair color or height. I'm a woman because I was born female. I'm happy with my body the way it is but don't feel a need to 'perform' femininity.

I'd argue that most animals don't have a sense of "gender identity" - they certainly don't feel emotional distress at being neutered or have any attachment to their bits. My sister's cat had to have his penis amputated & urethra widened (too much scar tissue from repeated bladder crystals) and essentially his bits look like a female cat's now - and he does not care. He's just happy that he can pee without pain. Most human men would probably be upset at having their penis removed and want reconstructive surgery following amputation. Cats don't care.

  1. Sex is not assigned in the vast majority of cases, its observed. The term "assigned sex" was originally meant for intersex people who had indeterminate genitalia at birth and were surgically "made" into whatever the surgeon thought would be easiest - turns out this was a horrible idea. Nowadays more accurate medical testing can allow for the real sex to be actually determined.

  2. You are born in the body you are born in. You may not like it, but that's the way it is. I don't think there is any such thing as souls that are somehow put in your body or any of that nonsense. Your brain is part of your body and your body influences your brain. You are your body, not a separate entity.

  3. I wouldn't say that gender identity doesn't exist, its just that for many people gender is not an important part of who they are. Most people don't spend a lot of time contemplating how what they like/wear/do aligns with what they think their gender should be. I don't like the term cis because I don't identify as a woman, I am a woman because I have a female body.

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pretty much.

According to TheDonald.win, the numbers of the election in Milwaukee are not following the Benford's Law. Is this a sign of fraud? by shakadevirgem in politics

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Even if it isn't, election fraud is a serious accusation and it should be investigated properly. I didn't vote for Donald, nor do I even like him, but if there is reasonable suspicion of a crime, it should be investigated.

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it seems like it's a vote for a return to sanity. While I don't like Biden's views on gender I think he's much better as far as foreign policy and race relations and just overall mental stability. Trump continues to show contempt for democracy even in his reaction to the results and that is dangerous in itself. One can o

Oh it did. And most everyone acts like people who vote for the other candidate than they support are evil, like nah - 90% of us are voting for who they think is the lesser evil. My lib friends will probably be pissed if they ever find out that I voted 3rd party (even though we live in a red state anyways).

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I live in a deep red state too and did the same thing.

GC: How can there be 'male' or 'female' when humans share at least 80%-90% of their genes with each other? If race is a social construct and is not real because humans share most if not all of their genes with each other, how can biological sex be real and not be a social construct? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Biological sex is part of how our species functions.

Race is how humans have decided to classify each other based on arbitrary phenotypic traits (i.e. skin color, hair type). How people define race has changed over time and across different cultures. While people have had different ideas about gender roles, they have never had any different ideas about sex.

Females produce eggs. Males produce sperm. People who don't produce either still have (or had) the equipment to produce either sperm OR eggs, never both. Its really that simple. How do we determine what sexes are in non-human animals? or even in plants? By seeing which ones produce the eggs. If biological sex isn't real, then why can't I have a rooster lay eggs? If biological sex isn't real, the shouldn't a baby form from any combination of gametes, since they are 'basically the same'? The amount of genes being shared means absolutely nothing. There is in reality, only one single gene that matters, and that is the SRY gene. The SRY gene (located on the Y chromosome) triggers male development and its presence/absence determines what type of gamete an individual makes, and thus their sex.

Gender roles are not sex. Secondary sexual characteristics (i.e. facial hair, larger adam's apple, larger breasts, etc.) are not sex.

Why we shouldn't call women 'menstruators' by worried19 in GenderCritical

[–]SilverSlippers 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd like a list of all the companies that have used this dehumanizing language, so I can avoid them

Star Trek's "first nonbinary character". by bopomofodojo in GenderCritical

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pretty sure that was Jadzia Dax (Trill; DS9)

QT: If anorexics identify as underweight, is it wrong to give them weight-restoring treatment? by assignedcopatbirth in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think a more apt comparison would be BIID, body integrity identity disorder. These are people who feel a specific body part (i.e. arm or leg) is 'wrong' and want it removed. They acknowledge that the limb is there but find that it deeply bothers them. Most doctors try a wide range of therapies to get them to accept their body, but they are often unsuccessful. There is honestly a decent argument for having a surgeon remove they limb they want 'gone' if all other therapies fail because many patients will try and remove the limb themselves, often putting their lives in danger.

GC: Can you explain why defining sex as the different sized gametes (egg and sperm) is not conflating sexual dimorphism with sex, because I think it is conflating? And can you tell me why sex is binary and is not a bimodal distribution? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Having different types of gametes is what defines sex. Without it there are no sexes. Species that don't produce gametes don't have sexes. Sexual dimorphism refers to differences in phenotype between sexes (i.e. individuals with of the same species that produce different type of gametes). Sex is indeed just the type of gametes an individual produces (or has the equipment to produce). Traits related to sex outside of the sexual organs themselves are secondary sexual characteristics. When talking about sexual dimorphism, we are only talking about secondary sexual characterizes, not the gametes or sexual organs. Sex itself is binary. Many secondary sexual traits are bimodal (i.e. breast size, height, adam's apple size, etc).

A good example of what no sexual dimorphism looks like in a sexual species is society finches. You cannot determine the sex of an individual by observing them or their behavior. The only way to determine the sex of an individual is to examine them to determine whether they have ovaries or testes (or do a DNA test). Extreme sexual dimorphism would be something like anglerfish. What we think of as anglerfish are all female, the males are tiny parasitic fish that merge with the female and become nothing but a pair testicles. Humans are obviously somewhere in between. We have clear sexual dimorphism, but it isn't extreme.

GC: Why is sex binary and not a bimodal distribution in all sexually reproducing species? Don't hermaphrodites show that sex is not a binary in other sexually reproducing species? by Bootsinmyshoes30 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sex is what gametes your body has developed to produce. This has been discussed on here before. Even if your organs are non-funtional or removed, your body developed in utero to produce one type of gamete. That is your sex. Secondary sex characteristics are not sex. They are feature that typically show up alongside sex, but they are not what determines your sex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN2-YEgUMg0&t=1s

GC: What are your counter-arguments to these TRAs saying sex is not binary because of hermaphrodites and intersex, that binary sexes are "flawed human made taxonomies" and that "you can't see someone's chromosomes and genitals so sex does not matter"? by EverydayIsSad in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are no true human hermaphrodites (people who produce sperm or egg). Sex is based on the type of gamete that your body is built to produce, sperm or eggs. This is strictly binary. There are no speggs or alternate gametes. All humans with DSD's (or intersex people) have bodies that developed to produce one type of gamete or the other, but something got messed up along the way. The majority of DSD's result in sterility and often other systemic health problems as most developmental disorders that cause odd-looking genitals also cause other issues in the body. I.e. People with AIS have low-bone density and are at greater risk of fractures, people with CAH have trouble regulating electrolytes. People with DSD's are not a third sex, they are either male or female with developmental defects causing them to look or function differently.

Think about it this way: Humans have four limbs with five digits on each limb, right? Well sometimes people are born with extra toes or fingers, so should we say that there is a spectrum of limb-types? I have a relative with a missing heart chamber, so should we say that humans have a spectrum of types of hearts?

The fact that there are non-human animals where true hermaphroditism exists (i.e. clownfish are sequential hermaphrodites) has nothing to do with how humans should build our society around sex. The variety of sex developmental systems in nature is endless and fascinating but just because its possible in clownfish doesn't make it possible in humans. Clownfish can truly change sex (M to F) as in able to produce the gametes of their new sex. Salamanders can regrow limbs. Zebrafish can regrow their hearts. Male anglerfish physiologically merge with a female and become nothing more than a pair of testicles, with no fins or brain. Whiptail lizards are an all female species that reproduces via cloning that engages in sexual activity anyways. Humans can't do any of these things, so it shouldn't have any impact on discourse on how human society should work.

QT oriented question but anyone can comment: How much of a choice do we have over our gender identity (assuming for the sake of argument that gender identity exists in all people)? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When you actually look at the statistics about violence against transwomen, it is largely transwomen (of the type with severe dysphoria from early childhood) in developing countries who are sex workers. Sex work in and of itself is super dangerous and degrading and victims of sex trafficking (regardless of sex or gender identity) face high levels of violence and murder. Transwomen & transmen in wealthier, developed countries do not face higher levels of murder than their non-trans peers.

All of the so called 'activism' that most woke-TRAs do does nothing to help these transwomen. They do nothing to combat global sex trafficking or help impoverished transwomen find employment or income.

QT: What about transgender women who are men? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Debbie Hayten is a transwoman who is open about the fact that she is still biologically male, despite hormones and surgery. Many rational trans people realise this. She understands that she shouldn't be in certain spaces that are for biological females.

GLAAD’s 2019 Accelerating Acceptance Index: Results Show Further Decline in LGBTQ Acceptance among Americans Ages 18-34 What’s the truth about trans acceptance? by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It seems like they've lumped many groups in their poll. It would have been more useful if their questions were more specific, i.e. "How would you react if your friend told you that they were trans" vs "How would you react if your friend told you they were gay".

GC: Do male seahorses, and their male relatives, really get "pregnant" and "give birth"? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup. Male seahorses get pregnant, well sort of. They obviously don't have a uterus. Instead they have this internal pouch thing. The female lays the eggs inside of the the male with an ovipositor (essentially an elongated vagina that looks like a penis). They stick the the ovipositor inside the male and then lay the eggs inside him. He fertilizes the eggs inside his body and they carries the embryos to term. Nature is weird.

This has nothing to do with humans though. Lots of animals have sexes and reproduction systems the are completely alien to humans. Bearded dragons and many other reptiles have their sex determined by the temperature that their egg was incubated at. Many species of fish undergo full sex changes (like the actually become fully functioning members of the opposite sex, capable a producing gametes). Most slugs are true hermaphrodites. There are all-female lesbian clone lizards (They are all female and reproduce by cloning themselves, they have sex with each other anyway because why not). Nature is weird. However none of these animals are human.

What matters to how our society works is the way sex and reproduction work in humans, not lizards or seahorses or clownfish. It is interesting to learn about alternate systems just for the wonder of how much variation there is in life.

ALL: Do you feel that you have an "innate" sense of gender identity? Do you feel naturally pulled toward the gender roles placed on your sex? by IceColdLover in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sort of? Traditionally feminine: I am nurturing and do want kids one day. I tend to be fairly mild-mannered. I like dressing up (but usually am too lazy) Not 'feminine': I work in a male-dominated field, I usually don't wear make-up (nor am I really interested in it), I am career-oriented.

I pretty much just do & like what I want without regard to gender roles.

GC: What are the true definitions of male and female that do not exclude people that have removed all of their genitals and/or can't produce sperm or egg? And why doesn't sex change when secondary sexual characteristics change? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Biological sex is based on which set of gametes your body developed the structures to produce while still in the womb. A woman who has a hysterectomy and takes testosterone still developed in utero to produce eggs.

Americans: Who the hell are you voting for? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Probably holding my nose and voting Biden - mainly for climate change and the supreme court picks, granted I live in a red state so it won't matter. Trump's prob. gonna win anyway though. I don't know ANYONE who is voting for Biden that actually likes him, which is really bad for election prospects. Trump has his core fans + people who hate Biden; Biden has only people who hate Trump, no core fans. Either way the outcome won't be pretty. If Trump wins there will be mass protests, if Biden wins, Trump will throw a fit.

Based J K. by CheesyPeas in LGBDropTheT

[–]SilverSlippers 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was this outrage that alerted me to the new book that I need to buy. I'm going to do the crazy thing called actually reading a book /before/ deciding to slam it. The book only came out today. I can guarantee that 90+% of the trolls have not even read the book.

GC: Do you believe women who voluntarily prostitute themselves should go to jail or be charged? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No. Its a very very tiny fraction of prostitutes. I think the efforts on prostitution should focus on jailing pimps and johns, not the women. Pretty much all women who enter prostitution 'voluntarily' do so because they believe it is their only option. If prostitution will help feed their kids or pay rent, they may feel like the need to do it.

Both: Do you think increasing time on the internet has contributed to more people identifying themselves as trans/nb etc.? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

From what I've read, it might be the case. There has been a huge increase in the number of people seeking gender care. The demographic has also recently shifted as well. Historically most people seeking help for dysphoria were young boys and middle aged men. Now there is a huge increase in teenage girls. There have been a few studies on this but they usually result in the author being targeted by a TRA mob. Its pretty difficult to do any research on the causes of dysphoria without attracting the wrong kind of attention - so it mostly doesn't get done.

A mother discussing losing her daughter to transgender ideology gets removed from YouTube for "hate speech" by [deleted] in censorship

[–]SilverSlippers 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Benjamin Boyce posted a really good interview with a mother who had a similar story, its still up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-yLVLvs_do&list=PLRdayXEOwuMH3f0pmZqVQUU62rgJIzvt9&index=13

Both: How do you score on this gender role test? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Somehow I scored 58% masc and 58% feminine; which ya'know shouldn't be possible as it goes over 100 percent. Anyway, most of these traits just seem like normal human values; stuff like loyalty, compassion, caring for others.

QT (but anyone who can answer): is there a consensus within the trans movement/liberal feminism on the definition of 'woman'? And what is the source of said definition? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most seem to believe that anyone who claims to be a woman is a woman.

GC: What would you say are the harms that come with defining "man", "male", "woman", and "female" to mean "gender" instead of only one's sex? by AllInOne in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Until stumbling into the more radical TQ groups, I was under the impression that "man" and "woman" referred to gender and that "male" and "female" referred to biological sex. I think its confusing to keep changing what words mean. I'm fine with having different words for sex and gender but these need to be clear and not change every few months. We need to be able to talk about biological sex without using awkward and dehumanizing language like "menstruators" or "people with uteruses".

Both: How do you feel about pronouns? Are they are a courtesy or a right? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I use the pronouns that people want.

GC: How do you respond to this post by Ana Mardoll? by levoyageur718293 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know what universe Ana lives in, but mixed sex school dormitories is never a good idea. Did she bother to look up that Hogwarts is largely based on real British boarding schools (i.e. the house system, prefects, etc)? Boys are never allowed in the girls dorm. Historically most schools were completely segregated by sex, not just the dorms. Even today most British boarding schools have houses completely segregated by sex, ie. if Hogwarts were a real school it would have 8 houses instead of 4 (a male and female counterpart to each).

Both: What do you think of this BBC report exposing concerns about Britain's Tavistock Centre? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing. I do know that there is a lawsuit coming the way of Tavistock. A young woman who was medically altered at 15 after 3 appointments is suing Tavistock along with the mother of an autistic girl who was harmed by the clinic and a former nurse.

It was originally supposed to take place this summer but has been postponed to October to COVID

Article on Lawsuit: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020 If you want to help them with legal fees, here is a a link to donate: https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/protect-children/

Both: What have been your personal life experiences with gender? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

GC-leaning. I present feminine I guess? My hair is long, I usually wear jeans or shorts and a T-shirt. I sometimes wear make-up, but not most days. Back before the pandemic I would wear make-up to work if I was going to be in the office all day, if I was going to the field - I wouldn't. Now I only show up in person for field work, so I don't. I work in agriculture, it's a male dominated field but I've only few problems from the men I work with. I'm super thankful that my first few supervisors were really awesome women. I came here mostly after the Rowling letter. I'm a long-time fan of her work and seriously didn't find the letter at all offensive. If people think that was 'hate' then they haven't really encountered any true hate in their lives.

I use preferred names and pronouns because its polite. I don't care what bathroom people use as long as they aren't making a scene (i.e. passing trans women using the women's room quietly) and the bathrooms have single-use locking stalls. I think natal female should have female only spaces. Males don't belong in women's prison or in women's shelters. (i.e. I read thing a while back about a homeless shelter in Canada that tried to house a trans woman who still had intact male anatomy in the same room as two women and when they complained, the women were put back out on the street.) I think gender dysphoria is a real medical problem that should be treated with science-based therapies, unfortunately the fervor of the TRA activist community makes that research hard to accomplish. I'm worried about the growing number of young children going to gender clinics and being given hormones and blockers after very little therapy or investigation. I'm really concerned about the growing trend of censorship on social media that makes having conversations like these hard, which will only make the situation worse - both for women and for trans people.

Trans people deserve to live without fear of harassment and have access to healthcare, jobs, housing, etc, just like everyone else. Access to these things are human rights, but access to women's spaces isn't a human right. I've seriously heard people claim that being able to compete on the sports team that they wanted to was a 'human right'.

ALL: Can trans folks be TERFs? by Elly in GCdebatesQT

[–]SilverSlippers 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

According to twitter - yes. Anyone who questions current gender rhetoric is a TERF even if they aren't hateful or don't exclude trans people. Oppose giving hormones to kids? TERF. Want female-only spaces? TERF Continue to like for follow a known TERF? Or hell even sign the same agreement (i.e. Harper article)? TERF