Gender-critical feminist charged over allegedly transphobic tweets by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]QuondamPhysics 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Marion Millar's GoFundMe was taken down. Does anyone know how we can donate to her legal fees?

EDIT: Ms. Millar just tweeted that she has pledges and donations totaling 30,000 pounds and does not need any more.

https://twitter.com/millar_marion/status/1401464837029470211

Is sex determined by chromosomes or phenotype? Are people with CAIS male or female? Doesn't CAIS challenge binary sex? by IWoreWhat in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]QuondamPhysics 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Yes" is so an actual answer. Both phenotype and chromosomes contribute to the sex of the individual.

As to how XX males without SRY are in fact males, as I said, that depends on how the individual body develops as a result of the disorder. Consulting Wikipedia on the subject, I find that XX males are born with smaller or deformed secondary sex characteristics, many have decreased body hair or gynecomastia, some have decreased libido. All are sterile. However what I'm reading is that each individual develops as a result of their condition differently. As Wiki states, "the degree to which individuals with XX male syndrome develop the male phenotype is variable, even among SRY-positive individuals." Some may develop with an over-abundance of female characteristics. Some may have more male characteristics. An XX male without SRY may develop as a male due to factors we haven't considered or don't understand. It's a matter between the patient and his or her doctor. Arguably they don't have a sex at all.

Short answer: I'd need an M.D. in endocrinology to give that question the consideration it deserves.

As to your apology, no worries! This sub could use more content. :)

EDIT: Q: What is their sex? A: Female. Q: Why? A: Female phenotype. Just because we have 99.3% chimp chromosomes doesn't make us a chimp.

EDIT EDIT: It also depends on how the biological system expresses these genes and how the different organ systems interact with each other. Chromosomes aren't necessarily the blueprint for making a person, they're more like a rough sketch with tons of preliminary artwork. Ultimately the body that is created is the result of the plans being changed on the fly as the result of external conditions. While I'm aware that such an analogy could easily be used as some patchwork justification for the concept of 'gender identity', that entire line of thinking is based on a false premise, that gender identity is based on some sort of biological justification rather than a purely social phenomenon.

I'm legit sorry I can't be more helpful to you. For them to demand complex medical diagnoses regarding endocrinological disorders from laypeople isn't a reasonable position.

Is sex determined by chromosomes or phenotype? Are people with CAIS male or female? Doesn't CAIS challenge binary sex? by IWoreWhat in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]QuondamPhysics 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Okay!

What is their sex? Female.

What determines sex, phenotype or chromosomes? Yes.

Why does CAIS not challenge binary sex? Because it has no role in sexual reproduction.

When people can have variations of yadda yadda, sex becomes a spectrum? No.

Intersex are not male or female? You should probably ask them.

How are XX males without SRY? Depends on the individual symptoms of the condition.

Hope that clears things up. :)

EDIT: "You're refusing to answer those questions about intersex, which is why they continue using intersex for their arguments."

Am so!

Is sex determined by chromosomes or phenotype? Are people with CAIS male or female? Doesn't CAIS challenge binary sex? by IWoreWhat in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]QuondamPhysics 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Firstly, I need to point out that intersex advocacy organizations have stated repeatedly that they don't appreciate being used as a prop for transgender ideology. Also, the quote in the image in your first link is not quoting an actual intersex person, but just some rando.

Second, intersex conditions are not a third sex, as their condition plays no role in human sexual reproduction, and in any event, one sex is usually more dominant in the majority of cases. Intersex conditions are a disorder and the severity of the disorder depends on multiple factors specific to each case, and treatment should always balance the needs and desires of the patient with the highest possible quality of life that's feasible given the constraints of the disorder.

Sex, therefore, is not a spectrum. It is a biological system, and like any system errors can occur, but errors are not features, and most will reduce the quality of life for the individual, not to mention cause associated comorbidities. Of course, without errors, there would be no beneficial mutations, so it's a flaw we live with.

This does beg the question - are male people who identify as women therefore suffering from a legitimate neurological disorder and require treatment? Quite possibly. People who suffer from bodily dysmorphia have serious symptoms and the condition is not well understood. However considering that most of what constitutes the idea of "womanhood" in the minds of transgender males are actually characteristics more appropriately described as "feminine" - i.e., fancy dresses, shrill voices, cosmetics, etc. - this claim is dubious. Men aren't kept awake at night screaming and punching holes in the wall from the pain of phantom endometriosis. Rather, their consternation arises from how convincingly they've performed femininity to society at large and require constant reassurance, and like many adherents to vague, abstract ideals, become angry and occasionally violent to those who are not true believers as well.

In any event, if a man, as you said, takes hormones, removes his sex organs, and has cosmetic surgery to create a non-functional orifice in his groin (and plain old fashioned brute force to maintain it), he is therefore not becoming more or less female, he is ingesting harmful pharmaceuticals that were originally intended to treat menopause in women (and discontinued due to the high incidence of breast cancer and strokes as a side-effect) and mutilating himself to fulfill an ideal of femininity he has set for himself, and the cosmetic surgery and pharmaceutical industries are only too happy to oblige. There is no more inherent physiological difference between a man who's lopped his bits off and ingests vast quantities of menopause medicine and an average male, than there is between said average male and a double amputee on large doses of pain meds.

Nor are they remotely similar to intersex people, I should add. Ultimately, any medical conditions that the surgically and chemically altered man or woman are suffering from are completely self-inflicted, and the capacity for self-destruction is not a surgical issue, but a psychiatric one.

What do guys think about feminism imploding? by wokuspokus in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]QuondamPhysics 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's... a solid point. It would be unfair and redundant to go to the trouble of making a non-radical-feminist gender critical allies sub, not to mention the loss of valid alternate perspectives in this one. And this sub's starved of content already. Fairly said.

What do guys think about feminism imploding? by wokuspokus in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]QuondamPhysics 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Gender Critical". It means someone doesn't believe that "transwomen are women, transmen are men", as the mantra goes, but rather that a person is stuck with the sex he or she is born with and "gender" is just a social construct.

What do guys think about feminism imploding? by wokuspokus in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]QuondamPhysics 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Considering the subtitle of this sub is "Male Radical Feminist Allies" I'm kind of wondering at both the post and the comments and if I'm in the right sub, but whatever. Here's my two cents.

I saw this video once of a mixed-sex classroom who were told to march in place. The girls immediately began lockstepping with each other, following the same rhythm and movements, while the boys went off-time, found their own groove, basically did their own thing. Primate cultures in the wild like the bonobos, chimps, macaques, etc., have a female-dominated society, the females congregating in groups while the males circling the fringes, occasionally even trying their fortune in other groups. In these cases the "Alpha Male" is merely the male the alpha female chose as a mate, and all those bros who go around talking about "alphas" and "betas" are basically co-opting canine pack culture, but I digress. Gorillas are different of course but they're far more distinct genetically from humans than bonobos.

So from this admittedly shallow understanding of anthropology I therefore submit that the concept of "inclusivity" is a female one. Females instinctively work to establish bonds and hierarchies in the community, while males stick around only if it works for them. Heterosexual males work to find their way in, whether by proving their worth, or if that fails, guile, manipulation, social gamesmanship, etc., with the ultimate goal of improving their mating opportunities, to have women play along with their sex fantasies about femininity, or just to gain a sympathetic female ear, or even some combination of all three. By instinctively decorating themselves in female plumage and engaging in their highly stylized performances of femininity, otherwise heterosexual TIMs (Trans-Identifying Males) circle female spaces like predators looking to be allowed in, while the arbiters of said community are inclined to let them out of their instinct to create relationships with those with which they believe to have common ground, or more often, someone who appears to be in need of help, hence why TIMs tend to exaggerate their feelings of persecution.

The desire for inclusion is what created "liberal" feminism; women want what the rest of us want. They want people to like them. They want to be part of the group, part of the team, they want to have friends they can hang out and party with on a weekend. Second Wave feminists weren't "liked". They were angry. They had beef. Many had suffered abuse at the hands of men and in their quest to understand their trauma and systematize the recovery of their psyche, they, unfortunately, had their glance behind the curtain and saw how rusty and rotten the whole contraption was. Their lives, their anger, and anything they had to say contradicted the fantasies we all have for our lives that we, as a society, aspire to: love, adventure, safety, exceptionality. Third wave feminists are told by their elders that all the tools they use to make themselves special - their looks, their cosmetic prowess, their perceived accessibility, their good nature and flexible personal boundaries - are the same tools society uses to exploit them, to make demands and to coerce things from them, and third wavers didn't like that at all. Being desired is addictive and you can't kick the habit until you hit rock bottom.

Lesbians in particular are vulnerable to the concept of inclusion because, traditionally, lesbians are outcasts. With the onset of socially acceptable corporate-sponsored queer culture, young lesbians and bisexuals are being offered the chance to be included with the cool kids. And not just included, but at the apex of a fabulous society of like-minded people of all races, sexes, gender identities, pronouns and letters of the alphabet. Their elder sisters tell them they're being used, manipulated; that the men in dresses they surround themselves with are predators, whether sexually or emotionally, narcissistic energy vampires draining away their life energy at best, sexually assaulting them at worst. But these younger lesbians look at the lives their sisters have led. Lonely, solitary existences, rejected by their families, fetishized by porn-obsessed men (at least if they're attractive), their dating pools so small that they're constantly in the position of having to date each other's exes if they can even find someone at all. And on top of that, lesbian gatekeepers telling them they're not lesbian enough. They're too femme. Too butch. They're not "gold star". They want to have kids. They don't want to have kids. It's not even the older lesbians' fault, really. All of them have stories about being burned by straight women who were just experimenting. All of them can relate to being left by their partner for a man. No thanks, say the young lesbians, or rather, "queer women". It's time to dye my hair and party at the Pride parade with a great big mass of queerness so large I can just disappear into the gestalt. My exceptional self can join a collective of like-minded specials and together our hive-mind will achieve an apotheosis of love and acceptance of all humanity for all eternity. 'Cause the human race is just peachy ya'll! I'm sure as hell not living on some ranch out in the middle of nowhere with no WiFi and no cell service, planting alfalfa sprouts with a bunch of ugly used-up dykes just because some man in eyeliner is watching me pee through the gap in the door to the bathroom stall! Forget that.

Oh well. Unfortunately no one's prepared any of these people for old age. TIMs will go from drag queen to just plain drag. Pretty soon they'll have problems that cosmetic surgery or hormones just can't fix and the Big Pharma/Medical industry will find some other gullible demographic and leave them to rot. TIFs (Trans-Identifying Females) will literally go insane from the unnecessary medical procedures they inflicted on themselves in their youth, since hysterectomies substantially increase the chances of early-onset dementia in women ages 40-49. Third Wave feminists' looks will fade, their desirability will disappear, they'll lose their specialness, and vanish outside of society's notice. Young queer women will become old queer women, only these old women will find that their other queer friends have all disappeared, and they no longer have a community to reach out to, unlike the TERFs and those older dykes who've been sharing pot-luck dinners and mutual support for decades. By then, who knows. The Furries will probably be in charge. Animal rights activism will have a whole new meaning when people manage to legally declare themselves livestock.

EDIT: punctuation and grammar

GC: Why can't names, clothes, etc be considered female or male, feminine/for women, or masculine/for men? And what are the issues with the definitions of man/male and woman/female that are based on behavior, clothes, names, and gender dysphoria/gender identity? by [deleted] in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]QuondamPhysics 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The concept of 'masculine' and 'feminine' varies so strongly from culture to culture, and even from era to era in the same culture, that to ascribe an object or activity as being inherently one way or the other is chauvinistic. Just ask any man named "Evelyn" or a male aristocrat from the 18th century who was obliged by society to cake his face in layers of healthy lead-based face paint. Imbuing clothes and cosmetics with some kind of near-spiritual significance is a function of society known as "fashion", and the concept of what is fashionable evolves so constantly that most people don't keep track. However, as participants in society we are often pressured to adhere to fashion trends in order to get ahead in life. The female corporate vice-president isn't rocking that killer pantsuit because she's expressing her femininity, she's doing so in order to meet the expectations of what her bosses consider is professional for a female executive. Speaking personally however, literally every man and woman I know all wear the same blue jeans and hoodies.

While culture is transitory and ever-evolving, biology is constant. Masculine and feminine can change in our own lifetime, but binary sexual reproduction, in a variety of expressions, has been around for billions of years. Many cultures throughout history have invented rituals, practices, and sacred ceremonies to symbolically transform individuals into something else, whether the opposite sex, another species, or even someone else entirely, infusing their bodies with chemicals, sacred herbs and spices, even bodily scarification and alteration. It's meaningful to them, sure, but no matter what gods or demons they invoke, it doesn't change their body from doggedly trying to heal from whatever was done to it. To the TQs a neovagina is a symbol of their ritual transmogrification, but to their body it's a festering open wound that's constantly trying to heal closed.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to play pretend, and I don't want to spoil anyone's fun. Nor do I want to run afoul of the doctors/professionals you mentioned who are getting Oprah-rich selling expensive cosmetic surgeries and menopause and prostate cancer medicine as a solution to people's various Cluster B disorders. The money they make from an entire class of bourgeois patients needing lifelong medical intervention isn't "easy come, easy go" money, it's "I will kill you and your entire family and make it look like a right-wing hate crime" kind of money. But don't expect the rest of us to enthusiastically participate, because like any fashion trend, the clock is ticking, and the furries are in the wings warming up.

(Edited for punctuation)