Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the user who was arguing with you on this post might've been a troll.

I was quite serious. 🙄

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Atheists are generally smarter and more intelligent than theists. You just don't want to admit it because either you're a theist or you're an atheist that's too brainwashed by the theists to defend them and lick their boots: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/athiests-religious-people-intelligence-smarter-study-imperial-college-london-a8183131.html

https://www.livescience.com/59361-why-are-atheists-generally-more-intelligent.html

Scientists should be atheists, religious "scientists" cherry pick and aren't real scientists: https://blog.oup.com/2019/12/why-scientists-should-be-atheists/

Just because someone is intelligent in some areas like a small part of "science" doesn't mean they are intelligent in the other areas like just plain common sense and understanding basic reality as it is. Like I said, atheism comes from the burden of proof which is the basics of science. Science means evidence too. There is no evidence for "God", so those "scientists" that were/are spiritual were/are not real scientists, and were/are not intelligent as they did/do not apply the same logic they used/use to find about the big bang, genetics, etc to their belief in "God" and realize there is no such a thing.

And if these "scientists" you name were "spiritual" and believed in a "god" then not sorry to say this, they were not capable of understanding the most basic part of science which is the burden of proof, and simply evidence, so no they are not intelligent just because they got lucky in there and found a small something like "the big bang", etc.

"Wisdom" most often refers to knowledge or insight gained through time and experience. It is completely separate from intelligence. Anyone of any age can have intellect, but not necessarily wisdom.

Not even going to bother with you anymore. You're just ageist, byeee 💀

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

with more life experience

Because having existed for a few more years, which is called "life" experience, means older people are so smart /s

If having more "life" experience meant being wiser and smarter, then the majority of adults wouldn't be religious, nor would they be following the mob like some robot that is programmed to be a certain way. That's not the case sadly, most adults are less intelligent than literal 12 year olds. I mean, at the age of 10 I knew that there's no such a thing as a "god" or a "soul", and wanted to go against the mob mentality

While you see most adults following the herd with no questions asked, and popping out kids one after another in the name of their imaginary friend, just so they would brainwash them and increase the number of the adherents of their religion (that's the whole reason behind their "be fruitful and multiply", to increase their numbers in the most pathetic way possible. They know they can't increase their numbers via rational discussions, because their beliefs are nonsense. So they resort to becoming baby factories).

They're less intelligent than a 10 year old.

Just because older people existed longer, and worked boring jobs, doesn't make them smarter than those younger than them.

And if you can't get this then you're just proving my point, eh.

This isn't what my therapist tells me to do. Most of this advice is useless and shallow. And don't get me wrong, there are plenty of shitty therapists out there and I had to go through a couple to find the one I have now. She was the first one to diagnose me correctly and get at the root of everything.

I guess it depends on the reasons why someone is depressed for instance. Someone could be depressed because they have financial issues, can't stand university because it's just not for them but their family makes them attend uni even if they don't want to, etc. Therapy for these people is useless, and a waste of time. They may talk and talk about their financial issues, their hating uni, etc, but after leaving the therapy sessions - the issues are still there as always and the therapists can do nothing to solve them, so there's no way to end the cycle of depression.

For the depressed people who are bullied, in homophobic environments, etc, I don't see how therapy helps them when they are still bullied or in homophobic environments, only after the bullies are stopped, and they are given assistance to run away from their homophobic environments, the therapy could help them a bit.

But I think the depressed and self-hating individuals should be willing to change and be helped first. No amount of therapy can help someone that does not want to be helped.

Thank you

😊

Don't know how to feel about the new years, only 5 days left to 2021 and I wish the year wouldn't end so fast, time really flies 😩

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so you have plenty of time to learn the hard way.

In your dreams. I learned to have no tolerance for anyone that gets in the way of my goals and objectives the hard way. Even if beaten and stoned, I'm not going to let anyone stop me from being the wonderful way that I am.

I don't imagine that will serve you well in life

Quite the opposite. Honesty, being true to myself and my objectives, and not acting like I care about others when I don't have served quite well for me.

but you sound young

Same old ageism. The vast majority of 20+ year olds (as in 20 to 80 or whatever age a human gets to be around year olds) believe in their imaginary "god" and/or "soul" and don't use their brain for anything beyond being a robot that follows the herd in society and does as it is told. Sleep, get up, go to work, pop kids out and brainwash them by certain psychological techniques so they start liking the corrupt society, repeat. That's all they do.

Just because one is older, doesn't mean they know more than those younger than them. The majority of adults may have more experience with working bloody hours in an office somewhere, but that's all there is to it. Also, the brain deteriorates as one gets older, just as other body parts deteriorate, so at the ripe ages of youth, one is more likely to learn about reality faster, and understand where they are wrong to change their minds, etc. Whereas the older people most times refuse to learn about reality, and rarely change their minds even when the truth is right in front of them.

In any conversation we atheists had, more and more 10-18 year olds listened to us talking about the contradictions within the bible and the Quran, and became atheists, whereas most adults went around in circles and refused to understand they are wrong.

Again, just because one is older, doesn't mean they are smart, nor does it mean they know more. They don't.

I and a few others I know of are just a rarity among the 20+ year olds in the world that know better, and will not follow the herd.

so you think people who struggle with mental health issues are "beyond repair" and the medical professionals trained to help them are pure quacks

I don't believe therapy really helps for most depressed, or self-hating individuals. A "professional" is sent there to say things the depressed or self-hating individuals already know and don’t have the motivation or energy to execute. "Think positive", "focus on breathing", "exercise", "find time to do things you enjoy". Even I could say these things. They are told "get help". There is no help. Only the depressed and self-haying individuals can help themselves, and they refuse to bother with it, at least most times.

It's good therapy somehow worked on you though.

I'm going to go celebrate the holiday with my family now. Best wishes.

Hmm, we don't celebrate that here, but have fun I guess. Say hi to your family for me. And happy holidays.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because atheism has to do with basic intelligence, and the understanding of the burden of proof which is literally the core of logic and what the legal system of every country ever operates on (e.g. innocent until proven guilty, when there is no evidence, innocence is presumed because of the burden of proof). When there is no evidence, non-existence of "god" and "soul" is presumed and the default is disbelief because of the burden of proof. But religious people don't understand such a simple thing. They lack the basics of logic and intelligence.

Someone with a ton of work experience believing in things that don't exist (e.g. "god", "soul", "after life") isn't actually smart or intelligent, if I ever saw a 40-50 year old "physicist" believing in santa caluse, fairies or whatever I would laugh at them and wouldn't be able to take them seriously anymore, same with people with a ton of "work experience" that believe in a "god", "soul" or whatever. And that's basically most adults.

You were mocking me when you said "yes you are smarter and wiser than older people who have more "life" experience", you meant I'm not wiser than them, and my point was just because the older people have more "life" experience doesn't mean they are smart and bright, most of them are not smart, and one of the reasons is most of them are religious.

Most people who dish out the money for therapy want to be helped. It's expensive and I have to pay for it out of my own pocket.

Hope that's true.

I love her more than myself and, even at my lowest point, I want to live for her sake. She wants to grow old with me, which means I need to stick around a while.

I got to admit, this line makes a perfect nice romance novel. Two girls love each other, one is depressed, and wants to end it, but loves this other girl too much and goes on just because the other wants her to stay around for a bit longer.

Really? This year was terrible. I can't wait for it to be over.

Well I don't know about you, but I loved the pandemic. When I saw the fear on other people's faces, I just got my popcorn and watched the drama unfold.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You also sound quite resentful and angry despite claiming to feel so happy.

When did I say I am happy about everything? I'm definitely not the bubbly happy optimist you find everywhere. I'm a realist, and hate optimism with a passion. Go back to this comment: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/70yy/does_any_other_lesbian_or_gay_men_feels_this_way/qqe0

What I said was I am happy about and appreciate being gay, and being me, but I am unhappy about things that have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with me and being gay, such as just other people existing. Their very existence makes me unhappy

So yeah, I am angry and resentful every second of everyday about things like the very existence of other people, the corrupt society they created and/or support, my internet issues, financial issues, etc but no, I would never ever be angry or resentful when it comes to myself and being gay. Ever. That would be wrong, and would be a violation of my objectives and goals.

Don't think I sounded angry in my comment though, maybe you got it from "what on this earth" but I just like the usage of "what on this earth", and "on this earth" itself.

also, I said I might be wrong about my assumptions in my comment to you, something you forgot to mention I wonder why....

Because you still made that assumption out of thin air, out of literally nothing. No text, nothing whatsoever, that you could at least misunderstand or misinterpret. But hey. As long as you make up something out of thin air, keep talking about it and say in the end "I could be wrong" then that would work just fiiine /s

And like I explained in my last comment acceptance doesn't necessarily mean appreciation.

Even if appreciation is separate from acceptance, how are you going to be able to accept being gay without appreciating it? I believe the power of acceptance can only start working when you start appreciating being gay. But whatever.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As I said, you are incapable of explaining yourself. Even if I'm "assuming", the only thing I "assumed" was you hating yourself for being gay which I concluded from your post and comments, whereas you falsely assumed that I never went through anything difficult and grew up in an accepting environment eventhough I left no texts before about my past that you could misunderstand and get that conclusion from. You just made that up out of thin air, which is far worse. At least my so-called "assumption" of you hating your being gay comes from your own texts that you left everywhere.

When on this earth did I "assume" anything about you besides you hating yourself for being gay? Hmm? Explain this "you assume lots of things about me", because there's this one thing I "assumed" which is the only thing I can get from your posts and comments indicating you hate being gay, and nothing else to account for "lots".

And wrong, acceptance doesn't necessarily mean "appreciation". For example, you worked hard for an important exam. You failed. You get sad over it, until it comes a point you accept the fact you failed the exam and need to try again. It doesn't necessarily mean you appreciate the fact you failed the exam.........

I think that's just tolerance. If I work hard, fail an exam, and get over it, I'm merely tolerating my grade and the fact that I failed the exam. That's not acceptance. Acceptance comes with appreciation.

And no, definitely not the homophobes are the only ones who call people "freaks" lmao.

Only homophobes call gay people freaks. gay people. Freak means weird, homophobes like calling gay people weird, which is why they use gay to mean weird as well. "That's so gay" when they think something is weird, and wrong which is homophobic.

Acceptance is being okay with being gay. I'm okay with being gay.

Acceptance comes with approving of and appreciating being gay, and you said in your comments you don't appreciate being gay, and when you say you're proud, you are just not ashamed of it anymore. How on this earth is that acceptance?

who are obsessed with gay culture, have rainbows all over the place etc

Yeah well, I don't blame them, they are doing everything they can to show they like being gay.

And that person sounds similar to me.

Riiiight, VigorousTainMassage, the homophobe that hates being gay, sounds just like you. And that doesn't mean you are homophobic /s

do you enjoy draining everyone's energy when you're bored?

Not draining, just having conversations with someone is nice when I'm bored. And if you feel drained, you can leave

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Why don't I just go find a rape victim and tell her that she's weak piece of shit for feeling sad about being raped? Are people not allowed to grieve their pain anymore?

Sigh. False equivalence fallacy. When you tell gay people it's fine for them to hate being gay because they were discriminated against for it, it's like telling rape victims it's fine for them to hate themselves for being raped and think of themselves as "broken", etc.

Telling a rape victim it's okay for them to hate that they were raped is like telling gay people that were discriminated against that it's fine for them to hate being discriminated against. Both of those are okay.

But it's not okay to tell rape victims "it's fine to hate yourself for being raped!" just as it's not okay to tell gay people "it's fine to hate being gay because you were discriminated against for it and homophobes make things hard for you!", both of those are victim blaming.

Rape victims that hate themselves for being raped and think of themselves as "dirty", "broken", etc should be told not to hate themselves. You're not going to fix anything by telling them that it's fine for them to blame and hate themselves.

Gay people who have been discriminated against and hate being gay should be told there is nothing wrong with being different/gay and they should not hate being gay/different just because they were discriminated against for it. That's not victim blaming, it's literally the opposite of victim blaming.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, because I am right, duh. And no, notice how most of the commenters actually say they hate themselves for being gay. Not sorry to say this, you don't get to say "I don't appreciate being gay, and I'm not proud of being gay. I just accept it". You literally don't accept it when you can't appreciate it for what it is. You're just tolerating it, which is different from acceptance.

Tolerance means there always remains that little voice that says "if only I weren't gay/different"

Tolerance does not inherently appear with understanding and appreciation. It's like I can tolerate some insects in my house like ants, but still when I encounter them I don't appreciate them and feel like I should get rid of them.

Acceptance comes with approval and appreciation. It comes with satisfaction of oneself. And you don't appreciate being gay, and you're not satisfied with it so stop with all the contradictory statements.

By the way, the first top comment is from our usual homophobe VigorousTaintMassage who says he, just like you, is not proud of being gay and sees himself as a "freak". Nice word choice, the only times I see gay people being called "freaks" is by homophobes. Please stop playing around. It's either 1) you are incapable of expressing yourself, or 2) you know I figured you out, so you keep contradicting yourself to make yourself look better.

VigorousTaintMassage:

I kind of get it, but I don't feel proud either. I know I will always be different and society will see me as a "failed male", but that doesn't mean I'm happy about it. Acceptance doesn't equal appreciation.

I don't do "pride", I don't get gay culture and in-jokes, and I don't have a boyfriend nor do I hook up. So I think I'll always be a "freak among freaks" if that makes any sense

You:

This could have been written by me omggg... I also feel like a "freak among freaks". I also don't do pride, and don't get gay culture. Like I'm just a regular woman. Just because I'm gay it doesnt mean I need to have rainbow stuff all over my bedroom idk... And you're absolutely right - acceptance doesn't eqauk appreciation. I guess that's the way I feel about my homosexuality... Thank you for your message, for real.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're cocky, insensitive AND a hypocrite.

Nope, you're just incapable of expressing yourself better. When I read your post, and comments, you were all "I'm so jealous of straight girls, I want to understand what it's like to like a guy ugh", and "I hate being different". Of course I would reach the natural conclusion that you hate being gay and wish you were straight. I'm just saying what you said, or at least the only thing I could get from everything you said before this comment. That's not an assumption.

You should have just said this same thing you're saying now in this comment in your own post. There would be no misunderstandings otherwise.

I don't know which country you are in. But there are ways to meet with lesbians. Apps would work. And maybe bars, if you're 18+. But if you're not comfortable with those places, and if you're in a country where you can't easily find bars, and people on apps, then there is another option which is looking for lesbians in school, parks, etc. The difficult part will be asking around though, and I'm not sure how you're going to get past this difficult part.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the OP has already told you that she doesn't hate herself

Riiiiiight, that's why she gets depressed over not being straight (not understanding what liking guys is like) and instead being different. She totally does not hate herself, not at all. /s

And I have already told you that my own bouts of self-hatred are a symptom of a mental disorder for which I am currently being treated by a licensed therapist. And yes, it actually has helped.

Which means you didn't have to waste time talking to random strangers online, and could have saved up the energy for the next session with your professional therapist to fix your issues faster.

Glad the emotional pros*itution that sucks money out of people's pockets and puts some "professional" who without the money wouldn't even bother in there to offer empty platitudes- I meant therapy worked out for you though.

The depressed people I know and have talked to couldn't fix their issues with therapy, and I came up with that long name to describe therapy after a while, but it's good it worked for you.

So? This what everyone does. People meet up with their friends to bitch about their jobs, their families, their obligations, then they feel better. It is a very healthy way to release pent up emotion.

Clearly not everyone because my sister is quiet af and doesn't go bi-ching about her issues every few days, she vents one time, and then vents about a whole year later and that seems to be a healthier way of getting it out of her system. What is bi-ching about some issue every few days going to do if the issue itself is not solved?

This is why it's important for depressed and self-hating people to have access to mental health services.

I think most are beyond repair, but sure

Nothing OP said sucked the energy out of me. And you had every right to simply not offer your sympathy and move on to a different thread. You chose to engage and waste all your energy arguing with me, instead.

Of course it didn't suck any energy out of you, you both already agree with each other. Birds of a feather flock together, why would a self-hater suck the energy out of another self-hater

Also true, I chose to engage, but I had nothing else to do. Staring at the wall got boring.

Did it occur to you that different people have different needs and different ways of grieving? Has it yet occurred to that it's ok for people to not be you and to express their emotions in a different way? Do you simply assume because something works for you, it must work for everyone? You are going to have a difficult time relating to other people if you operate under these assumptions.

You can have your way of grieving. I just don't see how staying in bed all day, crying and venting for days are going to help. Venting a few times I can understand, but not for days, and I can not relate, no. I can't relate to most people.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I have this kind of personality where if I have a goal, I concentrate all my energy toward getting to that goal. Apart from that hating myself for being gay is wrong, hating myself for being gay will violate my goals, so it hasn't happened and won't happen. If it did happen, I would have to punish myself gravely for doing something wrong and also violating my goals and going against my promises, so it won't happen.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You say, something like, "I know how you feel. I have felt this way before too. I'm sorry you're feeling like this." And then you let them cry and vent about it. Then you offer some encouraging words. Then they feel better.

If you seriously believe that by being told "I know how you feel, I have felt this way before, I'm sorry", all the bad feelings self-hating gay people have are going to fly out of them, then I don't know what to tell you. Let's take you and OP. You vented here, OP vented, and you exchanged "I know how you feel so sorry you feel this way" for a few hours with the other people you interacted with. Are you two going to stop being self-hating after this? Or is it that all this venting, your feelings being acknowledged, and being told "I'm sorry you feel bad!" may momentarily work but will be useless in the next few days? How many times have you vented and gotten your feelings acknowledged before? If you have done this before, and came for more, I can guarantee you will soon have to have another venting session in reality, if not online.

I have seen depressed and self-hating people, more than I can count, they operate the same way. They go: Vents -> Feels fine for a few days at max -> Goes back to feeling bad, needing their feelings to be acknowledged and venting yet again as though the previous venting session and getting their feelings acknowledged never happened

Self-hating people suck all the energy out of the people they get sympathy from, and not only do they come back more self-hating than ever but also leave others drained. They are self-destructive and destroy those who want to help them.

Why that is, is because self-loathing is not rational. The self-hater denies the very thing needed for them to improve (self-love), and so trying to help them improve and change fails most times.

Even if telling self-hating gay people to "stop being self-hating" isn't going to fix them, acknowledging the feelings of self-hating gay people isn't a solution and isn't going to fix them either. So I will stick to "stop being self-hating".

About me. I lost someone I cared about, but what I needed wasn't "honey I'm so sorry, I understand you". Most of the people saying that were not being genuine and didn't care. What I needed was to remember her and the memories we shared, not cry over having lost her. It happened, as saddening as it was. I needed a smack on the head to get up and get out of it stronger, not stay in bed for days and get upset, cry, and vent, those would do nothing.

Whoever here hates themselves more because of something I said, raise your hands!

Wow! Such a reliable way to get the stats! The results are totally not going to be skewed, and will be 100% reliable! /s

Are you sure I'm boring you? You seem to be enjoy this.

Hmm. True, if you were completely boring, I would have left already. That I haven't yet, means I enjoyed you

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Boy, it would sure be nice if I could fit in better with the people who make up 99% of my social circle."

That's not what OP said, pay attention to OP's words:

Why do I still hate the fact that I'm "different" from other girls? I hate it so much that I'll never be like the other girls. I hate that I'll never understand them and what it's like to like guys

I do know what it's like to have internalized homophobia - feeling ashamed and disgusted of myself for liking the same sex. I did feel those things at one point right after coming out and things not going well and losing friends etc etc.

I NEVER wanted to be different ... And being gay forces me to "stand out" in a way that it's not "common" to be gay. And that I'm "forced" to face homophobia, to have a 'non traditional life' and to deal with an heteronormative society and all the crap lesbians still have to deal with.

OP means that 1) she wants to know what it's like to like guys despite being a gay woman, and feels sad she doesn't know what it's like. 2) she hates being gay because she hates being different and she was discriminated against for being different.

OP may not have directly said "I was ashamed of being gay for years and though I say I don't hate being gay now, I do because I can't understand straight people. I wish I were not gay and were straight to be normal. I hate being different and being forced to face discrimination", but she did indirectly and you can figure that out if you just put her words together.

You are literally victim-blaming right now.

Ah yes, telling self-hating gay people to stop enforcing the homophobic message that "being gay means being different. Being different is a curse, because you will feel alienated, isolated and depressed not being able to relate to the normal people, which means being gay is a curse" is "victim blaming" /s

Go back to my other comment, I'm going to quote myself:

This is a simple scenario I think will help you understand my view: A boy is constantly bullied for his long hair in school, as a result hates his long hair and hates being different. If you tell him "please continue to be depressed, repressing your hatred for your long hair will lead to a worse mental health! It's okay to hate having long hair. If you were normal, and just changed and cut it short, you wouldn't get bullied!", then you would be shamed and would be seen as evil by pretty much any sane individual I know, for holding the victim of bullying responsible partially or wholly for the attack that was committed against him and even daring to say it's fine to hate a part of himself.

If he says that he hates his long hair and wants to get rid of it because if he had a short hair he would be normal and noone would bully him, that would also be considered victim blaming, since he is holding himself responsible for the attack eventhough he and his long hair are not at fault. Being different does not excuse bullying. And letting the bullied individual wallow in self-hatred is akin to letting depressed individuals cut themselves just because they think it can make them feel better and repressing the desire to cut would lead to a worse mental health.

No, cutting isn't going to lead to a better mental health, nor will wallowing in self-hatred and hatred for being gay/different lead to a better mental health. While hating your being gay may bring a momentary sense of calm and a release of tension, it's usually followed by guilt and shame and the return of painful emotions, in general more hatred. It's just going to fuel the negative feelings, and will lead to a worse mental health.

Not only that, when someone who is bullied hates a part of themselves, and bows down to the bullies, their attitude will help keep the cycle of bullying going, making them just as guilty and their bullies. They would no longer be mere victims, but perpetrators, as the other bullied people will learn from them that there is something wrong with them and wish they would change themselves for their bullies too.

Now, gay people saying they hate being gay/different and wish they were "normal", and telling gay people who hate being gay that "it's okay to hate being gay, don't repress your hatred. If you were not gay you wouldn't be discriminated against and would have it easy!" are somehow seen as "fine" and are even celebrated. Reprehensible.

Gay people get bullied in this heteronormative society, but the responsibility for bullying always belongs to the bullies, in other words the homophobes that discriminate against gay people and in general the straight people that force heteronormativity down gay people's throats. Not the gay people.

Gay people, the victims, should not change themselves or hate being gay/different just because they are discriminated against for it. If gay people want to hate something, or someone, they should really hate the homophobes, and the straight people that force heteronormativity down their throats, not their being gay. And telling them otherwise will only keep the cycle of bullying going.

I believe it is you who has no empathy for gay people. The victim blaming you help spread creates irresponsible cowards fine with gay people turning against their own best interests and against themselves.

And if shame is what brings the self-hating gay people back to their senses to stop that vicious cycle they help continue that hurts other gay people then so be it.

Um no, telling self-hating gay people that they should not hate being gay just because they are bullied for being gay is not victim blaming, just like telling that boy in my scenario that he shouldn't hate his long hair just because he's bullied for it is not victim blaming.

It's actually the opposite of victim blaming.

So apparently that makes me a coward. It doesn't matter at all what actions I took in spite of these feelings. Just having such feelings at all negates everything. What a great life lesson to teach the young folks.

Never said the feelings negate what you did. You did good things, but they do not erase the fact that you deal with self-hatred, you admit that your actions don't match your own beliefs whenever you have these negative feelings about being gay (hypocritical much?), and what you teach other gay people from time to time is nothing but self-hatred, which means you did bad things too.

Ok, great. You are morally superior to almost everyone, then. Go enjoy your moral superiority by yourself, as it isn't serving any purpose in this thread.

I'm bored, and have nothing else to do for now. That's the only reason I came to this thread, and ngl you bore me out. Might leave, might not leave the thread. It depends on if you are going to continue being boring.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good job portraying me in a bad light, as some evil ice Queen. I am fully capable of empathizing where I see fit. It is that I had enough of gay people who normalize victim blaming and I can not have any empathy for them. Yes, gay people get indoctrinated, and bullied. But your "being gay is such a curse, we can't accept ourselves and want to be straight/normal because then we wouldn't be discriminated against and wouldn't feel left out in the heteronormative society" is victim blaming at its finest.

This is a simple scenario I think will help you understand my view: A boy is constantly bullied for his long hair in school, as a result hates his long hair and hates being different. If you tell him "please continue to be depressed, repressing your hatred for your long hair will lead to a worse mental health! It's okay to hate having long hair. If you were normal, and just changed and cut it short, you wouldn't get bullied!", then you would be shamed and would be seen as evil by pretty much any sane individual I know, for holding the victim of bullying responsible partially or wholly for the attack that was committed against him and even daring to say it's fine to hate a part of himself.

If he says that he hates his long hair and wants to get rid of it because if he had a short hair he would be normal and noone would bully him, that would also be considered victim blaming, since he is holding himself responsible for the attack eventhough he and his long hair are not at fault. Being different does not excuse bullying. And letting the bullied individual wallow in self-hatred is akin to letting depressed individuals cut themselves just because they think it can make them feel better and repressing the desire to cut would lead to a worse mental health.

No, cutting isn't going to lead to a better mental health, nor will wallowing in self-hatred and hatred for being gay/different lead to a better mental health. While hating your being gay may bring a momentary sense of calm and a release of tension, it's usually followed by guilt and shame and the return of painful emotions, in general more hatred. It's just going to fuel the negative feelings, and will lead to a worse mental health.

Not only that, when someone who is bullied hates a part of themselves, and bows down to the bullies, their attitude will help keep the cycle of bullying going, making them just as guilty and their bullies. They would no longer be mere victims, but perpetrators, as the other bullied people will learn from them that there is something wrong with them and wish they would change themselves for their bullies too.

Now, gay people saying they hate being gay/different and wish they were "normal", and telling gay people who hate being gay that "it's okay to hate being gay, don't repress your hatred. If you were not gay you wouldn't be discriminated against and would have it easy!" are somehow seen as "fine" and are even celebrated. Reprehensible.

Gay people get bullied in this heteronormative society, but the responsibility for bullying always belongs to the bullies, in other words the homophobes that discriminate against gay people and in general the straight people that force heteronormativity down gay people's throats. Not the gay people.

Gay people, the victims, should not change themselves or hate being gay/different just because they are discriminated against for it. If gay people want to hate something, or someone, they should really hate the homophobes, and the straight people that force heteronormativity down their throats, not their being gay. And telling them otherwise will only keep the cycle of bullying going.

I believe it is you who has no empathy for gay people. The victim blaming you help spread creates irresponsible cowards fine with gay people turning against their own best interests and against themselves.

And if shame is what brings the self-hating gay people back to their senses to stop that vicious cycle they help continue that hurts other gay people then so be it.

I know about indoctrination, I have first hand experience with it and have seen as much as I needed to. Was fed the Quran both at home and school from first grade, was made to wear Hijab because their imaginary "god" said so, even was hit by family members for not meeting their expectations when I was just a kid.

But I still did not believe, I did not care. It partly had to do with the misogyny that exists within the Abrahamic religions. I did not care to believe in a "god" so cruel, misogynistic and homophobic. And my attitude was: "even if he exists, I will spit on him and make him beg for my forgiveness. I would rather go to hell and be with Shaytan, he is a much better entity than this god is"

I had no wifi until first year of highschool to help me find out about the contradictions in the Quran that I know of now. We weren't rich, we were average to poor and had financial issues. And everyone I would meet was a muslim so I couldn't ask them questions. Despite all that, I didn't let them indoctrinate me. I can not see how a little simple girl in a poor family who was isolated from the rest of the world and had no access to internet until highschool due to financial issues could figure out she was being fed lies and didn't buy into the religious bs when she was in elementary school (and no I'm not that smart, I'm average), but you and others were incapable of doing this same thing. And I believe you can not make any excuses here.

End of rant.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I truly don't understand what she's still doing here lmao.

Because I'm bored. And can't sleep eventhough it's early in the morning (5 am), because it's so cold, the house is never warm (only the kitchen warms up when we cook) and I don't have money for too many clothes so all that I have is it and they don't warm me up. Can't sleep, am bored, so I surf the web and spend time here.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are. You don't have to directly tell someone to hate themselves for them to start doing that. The way OP and the others merely tolerate being gay and can't fully accept themselves will influence the impressionable lurkers and teach them "even gay people merely tolerate themselves, why should society accept them when they don't?".

Never said I don't empathize with someone feeling isolated, or insecure, and genuinely asking for help to fix that issue. But that's not what OP and the commenters are doing at all. They don't mean "I am proud of being gay and don't hate myself, I just can't stand the heteronormative society". They mean "I was ashamed of being gay for years and though I say I don't hate being gay now, I do because I can't understand straight people. I wish I were not gay and were straight to be normal. I hate being different and being forced to face discrimination". That's tolerance, not acceptance.

That I do not empathize with. You are free to waste your emotional energy on people like this. But I will not empathize with gay people that see being gay, being different from the rest, as what they can not take pride in and wish they could get rid of. They are enforcing the same homophobic message we have heard from straight people for years: "being gay is a curse, gay people can not be happy because they are not normal", as a result of which younger gay people will find it harder to fit in, and will hate themselves for what they are, because even their older gay fellow people think being gay is a curse - even though it isn't.

The T should be criticized for being homophobic. But I think you can not efficiently criticize the T for being homophobic when you not only wish to give these gay people a platform here to speak out the hatred they harbor towards being gay/different, but also empathize with them for feeling as such. At best you would be hypocrites.

And I believe not feeling beaten down, isolated and insecure, and instead staying strong during tough times like this are morally superior. You can not change and demand acceptance from society when you cowardly bow down to society and can not accept yourselves in the first place. It's easy to feel beaten down, to get depressed, to give up. But it takes a huge amount of bravery to get back up, fight, and not give up.

Being a coward and bowing down to homophobes can not be better or even equal to taking pride in what we are and fighting with the homophobes until they realize they can't get what they want, they can't make us feel upset, ashamed, afraid, etc.

And you are showing hatred towards the wrong thing. Gay people get bullied for being gay in this heteronormative society, it's not on the people who get bullied to change themselves, it's on the bullies to change themselves and it doesn't take much, they just have to stop harassing gay people and forcing heteronormativity down gay people's throats.

If you want to hate something, you should hate the heteronormative society and the straight people that created it and/or let it continue on, not being different.

Hating oneself for being different because one is discriminated against for it is victim blaming, and in no way can I accept victim blaming to be better than or even equal to accepting oneself and taking pride in being different.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Repression means "to prevent feelings, desires, or ideas from being expressed": https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/repress

Repress: "to not allow something, especially feelings, to be expressed: He repressed a sudden desire to cry."

For him to repress the desire to cry, there should be a desire to cry in the first place. He can't repress the desire to cry if he doesn't even know he's going to cry and doesn't want to cry.

For negative feelings about being gay to be prevented from being expressed, there should be negative feelings in the mind that one consciously thinks about in the first place. Can't prevent negative feelings from being expressed, when there are none to be expressed. I don't go around thinking "ugh why am I gay", or "ugh, wish I weren't gay, it would be easier".

But if negative thoughts can appear in one's mind without one ever knowing about them even when they appear, and without ever thinking about them to know they even exist, then there is no difference between them and negative thoughts that just don't exist, now is there

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

and all those repressed emotions don't just go away

Well, I had and have no repressed negative emotions when it comes to being gay, and pretty sure I have always been happy with and appreciated being gay, so nothing is there to fester and catch up to me. If you mean generally being unhappy about anything else that has nothing to do with being gay then sure, I hate other people and their existence makes me unhappy.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not going to even dignify this nonsense with an actual response.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I did not grow up in a supportive environment at all. I am in a muslim country, and in every muslim country saying one is gay out loud can not only send them to prison but also give them at least 100 lashes. Copy-pasting what I said to the OP here: Please stop acting like just because you were told in a catholic household that being gay is a "sin", and you could be thrown out of your house, you get to act like that's the toughest thing you could have gone through.

I believe that is a moral failing. Self-hatred is all you can teach the young gay people, so you are not qualified to give any advice to gay youth as their elder and be their role model. A role model doesn't get to teach the pupils to hate who they are.

Instead of teaching them to wallow in self-hatred, the gay youth should be taught that when faced with discrimination and this heteronormative society, both of which are challenges that seem like a brick wall that is too ridiculously high to climb over, they should hold their heads up high and start climbing that wall one little step at a time.

And the best way to teach the younger gay people such valuable lessons, which are to love themselves and not want to change themselves for the homophobes, is to put these words to practice ourselves, to climb our own walls with confidence and not give up, until we reach the other side. I believe I did reach the other side of my wall years ago. My wall was even higher than yours. You can do it too if you try hard enough.

And when younger gay people ask for my story, and how I am proud of being gay having conquered the challenges the homophobes threw at me, the sparkle in their eyes, and their hopeful stares give me hope, it makes me happy to see them happy and proud of themselves.

Being proud of ourselves for being gay, for being what the homophobes don't like us to be, makes the homophobes explode in anger. It's sweet, and they give up because they know we stand strong and will never give them what they want. They want us to be upset, to be ashamed of ourselves, to hate ourselves for being gay, and giving them the opposite of what they want will make them retreat and surrender as they know they've lost the game. Don't bow down to the homophobes and the heteronormative society they created. Don't give them what they want. Don't let them win.

If you still so desperately want to hate yourself, and be jealous of straight people, then by all means. Stay miserable.

But don't assume things about me. And just because you went through something, you don't get to act high and mighty and look down on others, even if they did not go through the same difficult things you did.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You don't get to assume things about me. What do you know? Did you even bother reading the long comment I sent you? I am in a muslim country, and in every muslim country saying one is gay out loud can not only send them to prison but also give them at least 100 lashes. You think you had worse than me? Oh please. Stop acting like just because you were told in a catholic household that being gay is a "sin", and you could be thrown out of your house, you get to act like that's the toughest thing you could have gone through.

You want to hate yourself? You're jealous of straight people? Fine. Be petty and hate yourself, but you don't get to assume things about me. And just because you went through something, you don't get to act high and mighty and look down on others, even if they did not go through the same difficult things you did.

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for your response, I did not expect one so fast! I am an introvert like you, socialization is draining, and I have a tendency to stay in my room most times instead of talking to others, unless there is a meaningful conversation to be had. The moment I go in my room (which is a wave of relief in and of itself), I go from being exposed to others to a safe haven away from others' eyes and ears. And I feel so much better that way.

But I guess there are different types of introverts? Because while I do hate socialization, I don't mind being the center of attention. Definitely not all the time, but it feels good to be paid attention to, whether the attention is good or bad. I think not wanting to be paid attention to is social anxiety and not introversion, because the only people I have talked to that had fear of attention had social anxiety. But I'm no psychologist UwU. I think it's best to talk to a psychologist about this and see if it's introversion or social anxiety that you have.

I understand why you feel like this being in a heteronormative society, I really do, I just hope you understand it is not your fault the society is messed up, and you shouldn't hate yourself or your attraction for that.

I'm actually in a very religious and homophobic country, where if someone openly says they are gay, in the worst case scenario they will be sent to prison and let's just say it will not be pleasant for them after that. My family were homophobic because they were religious. But when I was in highschool, once we all sat down, had a discussion on atheism and they slowly became atheists, they stopped being homophobic. It was a process, but it was really worth it.

I have never faced discrimination in the family ever since. In public, if I say that I am gay, I will be discriminated against by the religious. But I still fight for gay people in public, and even get in arguments with religious people. So far nothing happened to me! And I'm not really scared.

At first, the reason I never hated myself and was proud of being gay despite being in a homophobic country was that it gave me no satisfaction to bow down to the homophobes and let them win the game they started. In this heteronormative society, gay people are discriminated against, by hating ourselves or wishing we were like straight people, they would win, they would get what they want, which is us wishing we were not us and changed to be what they want us to be.

What makes them angry and slowly feel like burning inside? Me being happy about who I am and rubbing it on their faces. So I never missed the chance to tell them how much I like being gay and wouldn't change it for the world whenever they asked "do you wish you were straight"

Yes, I have quite a ton of fire inside of me.

But I think that's easy to understand, imagine this, you are in a society where "nerds" (I mean overly studious people) are constantly bullied, and discriminated against (in my country, "nerds" are not bullied, but praised) and you are a "nerd" who cares about her grades and getting in the best university in that country.

They bully you, and discriminate against you, but you stay strong, and don't bow down to them, because you know deep down it's not your fault they do this to you. You shouldn't change and hate yourself just because they don't like you and the way you are, they should change and stop harassing you.

That's what happens to gay people, and you shouldn't wish you were different to meet the expectations of homophobes. It's not your fault they do this to you. You shouldn't change and hate yourself because they don't like you and the way you are, they should change and stop harassing and discriminating against you.

You only have this one time (YOLO?), so don't waste it on wishing you were like those straight people. Use the time to make yourself happy, not make the homophobes happy.

There is another reason why I am proud of being gay, but that is a whole different topic that can take hours to talk about.

I just want you to know that, to me, gay people are like gold, very valuable and others are just too blind to see this.

I mean look at gold. It's characteristics are that it's a soft yellow metal, an excellent conductor of electricity, etc. These are just characteristics of gold, and yet they make it so valuable. Without gold, things would be a bit boring don't you think?

Yes being gay is just a characteristic, but without gay people, things would be really boring. And who can change the heteronormative society? Definitely not straight people themselves. Only gay and bi people can do that. It will take a while, but let us gay people take each other's hand, and fight to make the heteronormative society as non-heteronormative as possible while we are here, even if just a small part of this society will change it's better than nothing 😊

Does any other lesbian or gay men feels this way? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]Nohope 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All I get from this post and the comments is not even gay people accept themselves, and even when they think they do they still harbor some resentment towards being different from straight people and are jealous of straight people which means they are not fully accepting of their attraction. That's sad.

Are all the people in the LGBDropTheT circle like this? I thought the circle dropped the T because the T is homophobic, but here I see gay people being homophobic towards themselves, even if it's not towards other gay people. I saw the same thing in the LGBDropTheT on reddit that is not there anymore. I don't think one can criticize the T for being homophobic, when they are homophobic themselves.

I don't agree with the T and agree with dropping it. I just don't think I belong to this circle if the people in it have internalized homophobia.

I don't want to upset you OP and the others, I just am surprised to see posts like yours and comments like this. I can not relate to you and others. I am proud and never felt ashamed of being a lesbian, and not being able to understand girls that "like" boys, or boys that "like" girls. I don't wish to understand them, and see no point in it. I am me, they are them. I put the time you put on being upset over not being able to understand straight girls and straight boys, on trying to understand myself, "what makes me happy today", "what should I do to overcome the boredom now", etc.

I never thought of being different as a bad thing either, but a good thing. Being like the others is boring, and I can't stand it. Imagine a salad that is all just lettuce, and nothing else. That's like what you want, when you want to be like the others, everyone being straight. But I don't understand you. There should be some diversity in the salad. There should be other ingredients to give it color, such as tomatoes, cabbage, bell peppers, etc. There should be something else or it's boring and I can't even look at it.

And the other ingredients are the gay people, exactly what we need to give everything color, and make things not boring.

But yeah, if you want to continue feeling the way you do, then no matter what I say I won't be able to help you.

GC: Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GCdebatesQT

[–]Nohope[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So you're not against "gender" and "gender roles" because they're just sexual dimorphism and "femininity" and "masculinity" are what males and females biologically do

Another TIF wins bathroom suit (it's always a TIF plowing the way isn't it) by WrongToy in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I understand that the "trans" can't use teachers' restrooms, but "trans boys" shouldn't use boy restrooms/bathrooms/lockers and "trans girls" shouldn't use girl bathrooms/restrooms/lockers. So we should have a third and fourth place separate from everything else and call the third and fourth place the "trans" restrooms/bathrooms/lockers. What do you think

GC: Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GCdebatesQT

[–]Nohope[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is the most homophobic comment I have read so far, so you see lesbians and gay people as people that are failures because they don't follow sexual dimorphism and the "roles" you believe come with it or whatever? Fine, I want humans to go extinct anyway, I'm against procreation and breeding, so those sexual dimorphism that say "I'm a female that would be a good choice as a breeder"? Nope, going to either get rid of those or burn humans if they can't get rid of them. It's good to be a failure in the eyes of you and other humans because really, you breeders are the actual failures.

GC: Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GCdebatesQT

[–]Nohope[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well you said you're not fully GC, that's why you differ from radfems. My question was towards GCs, not towards on the fence GC leaning people that are also on the side of "gender" ideology and "gender" essentialism

If "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") is biological because of sexual dimorphism, then why are we fighting against "gender" when things like having muscles are biologically "masculine" and things like being short are biologically "feminine"? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Nah it's just you don't understand what the idea of gender critical is. But if the idea of gender critical is not what I just said, if it's not to abolish "gender" ("femininity" or "masculinity") and the roles people expect someone have based on their sex, then GC is just as bad as TRA and I will have to call myself something else

If "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") is biological because of sexual dimorphism, then why are we fighting against "gender" when things like having muscles are biologically "masculine" and things like being short are biologically "feminine"? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eh, I'm a female, you're talking to a human with a vagina here. I'm saying the point of GC is we have a biological sex and we can talk about the biological sex. But that we are not supposed to follow the roles that come with the biological sex, just because girls/women have vaginas, it doesn't mean girls/women should be short, have no muscles, have "smooth" skin, have less body hair, like pink, wear dresses, wear make up, be nurturing, have big boobs, etc.

And same for men, doesn't mean males/men should be aggressive, tall, etc.

But when you say a man that is short, has high pitched voice, etc is "feminine" you are saying the qualities he has are the qualities women have which means you're saying women should be a certain way like be shorter than men and if a man is short, etc he's being like a woman which is what TRAs argue

If "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") is biological because of sexual dimorphism, then why are we fighting against "gender" when things like having muscles are biologically "masculine" and things like being short are biologically "feminine"? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi, I didn't get to see your comment in my other thread before you deleted it :((, is it okay if you could send it again? I'm just curious even if it's graphic and wish the comment was not deleted, or send the comment you removed via private messages on saidit pretty please? If you're more comfortable with private messages, thank you my friend <3

GC: Why can't women be called handsome and men be called beautiful/pretty? Is it the english language that says handsome can't be used to describe women and beautiful/pretty can't be used to describe men? by Nohope in GCdebatesQT

[–]Nohope[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do you take anything "masculine" as an insult if you don't mind me asking?

If "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") is biological because of sexual dimorphism, then why are we fighting against "gender" when things like having muscles are biologically "masculine" and things like being short are biologically "feminine"? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't get to see your comment in my other thread before you deleted it :((, is it okay if you could send it again? I'm just curious even if it's graphic and wish the comment was not deleted, or send the comment you removed via private messages on saidit pretty please? If you're more comfortable with private messages, thank you my friend <3

Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sigh, why are you GCs all "gender" essentialists? I thought the point of GC was to abolish "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") but you all act like transmedicalists that say "a man that's short is a defect, he's a feminine man because being short is an innate quality of females"!!

If "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") is biological because of sexual dimorphism, then why are we fighting against "gender" when things like having muscles are biologically "masculine" and things like being short are biologically "feminine"? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The point of GC is to abolish "gender" ("femininity" or "masculinity") or the "gender roles" you call it because that's what made girls that are tough and hate pink/make-up/dresses think they must be boys since they are different from other girls and don't conform to the "roles" most girls have based on their sex so they take hormones and get surgeries, that's just how "trans" was made. The point of GC is we have a biological sex but nobody is supposed to play any roles that people think are there because of our biological sex

If anything, I think most GCs disagree with the point of GC, they are for "gender"/"gender roles" and they want girls/women and boys/males to play the roles that are there because of their "biological sex" so they see "gender non-conforming" people as failures and "defects" like transmedicalists because they're not doing what you expect them to do

It's just shocking that most GCs are "gender" essentialists like transmedicalists are

Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oops. Sorry my friend, you're absolutely right! It should be piqued my interest not peaked. Sometimes I make grammar mistakes, I actually like it when someone corrects where I get things wrong so don't worry about being a grammar nazi. I'm actually thankful you pointed it out, I get to learn and correct my grammar mistakes <3

GC: Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GCdebatesQT

[–]Nohope[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why is smooth skin associated with feminine, none of the females I have seen including myself have smooth skin, are you saying I'm less female for not having smooth skin :/

GC: Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GCdebatesQT

[–]Nohope[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you believe gender exists and is biological then? I thought GCs believe gender is not biological and is actually a social construct even if there are differences between the hair, skin, bones, etc of males and females

I have only heard transmedicalists argue gender is biological and is not a social construct, like Blaire White argues gender is biological because of the differences in hair, body, bones, etc of males and females and he says there are male and female brains because he's a transmedicalist; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9WqfBDjRF8

At the end he calls "feminine" men and "masculine" women "defects"

Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hello, your comment peaked my interest, and I'm wondering are there any GC articles/books I can read on "femininity" and "masculinity" being created to control women? Because that's a view I agree with but unfortunately couldn't find any articles explaining things in detail on google

Can you help debunk these pro-rape porn in animation, drawings and literature arguments? And what are the arguments in defense of making the production and the watching/reading of rape porn in animation, drawings and literature illegal? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And just one thing, I would say it's our "fault" "trans" people get so-called "murdered" but my goal is for the "trans" to get so-called "murdered" so we're doing good things

If "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") is biological because of sexual dimorphism, then why are we fighting against "gender" when things like having muscles are biologically "masculine" and things like being short are biologically "feminine"? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean according to "gender" essentialism, "gender" which is "femininity" or "masculinity" is sexual dimorphism, "gender" essentialists believe "gender" as in "femininity" or "masculinity" is innate, and that e.g. a man with a high pitched voice or a short height is "feminine" for having biologically "feminine" qualities. But if "gender" is not biological, then it means "gender" is not sexual dimorphism and is just a social construct, there then is no such a thing as "femininity" or "masculinity" and one can not be "feminine" or "masculine"

Now we need to find a way to debunk "gender" essentialism, does anyone know how to do that?

Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you then believe "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") exists and is biological instead of a social construct? I thought GCs believe gender is not biological and is actually a social construct even if there are differences between the hair, skin, bones, etc of males and females

I have only heard transmedicalists argue gender is biological and is not a social construct, like Blaire White argues gender is biological because of the differences in hair, body, bones, etc of males and females and he says there are male and female brains because he's a transmedicalist; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9WqfBDjRF8

At the end he calls "feminine" men and "masculine" women "defects"

Are there such things as "femininity" and "masculinity" or are they just imaginary things humans made up? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hello! My question is whether "femininity" and "masculinity" are just imaginary things humans made up or biological. Transmedicalists always argue "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") is biological, for instance here; https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/5ycm/gc_are_there_such_things_as_femininity_and/n5mn

I think gender is like language. It's naturally triggered but completed by culture. It can vary but it always has to act within natural norms. Physical strength is always going to be seen as more masculine, smooth skin is always going to be associated with feminine. All societies have masculinity and femininity even if they vary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_human_physiology#Skin

Another famous example of transmedicalists is Blaire White, he argues "gender" is biological because of the differences in hair, body, bones, etc of males and females and he says there are male and female brains because he's a transmedicalist; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9WqfBDjRF8

Since the point of GC is "gender" ("femininity" and "masculinity") is just a social construct and not biological, I wanted to ask for arguments against the "gender" sessensialism that says "gender" is biological instead of a social construct

Can you help debunk these pro-rape porn in animation, drawings and literature arguments? And what are the arguments in defense of making the production and the watching/reading of rape porn in animation, drawings and literature illegal? by Nohope in GenderCritical

[–]Nohope[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know, you're not really debunking those pro-porn arguments because you're on the fence and more pro-rape porn. I don't know much to debate you on this, I wonder if there are people here that can debate you on this because they may be more knowledgeable