GC: What should happen to trans people after the media storm fizzles out

Liminal · 2023-04-27T23:44:53+00:00

Thank you so much for sharing. It is always good to hear stories like yours to contrast them with what is happening today. You have been obviously been through quite a bit in your life.

Liminal · 2023-04-05T00:17:47+00:00

I truly wish that was not the case, yet I see that everywhere. It amazes and disgusts me to see women support men that openly mock them - "days of girlhood" for example. I have a male friend that often complains of toxic masculinity and having a hard time because of other men, but still refuses to see how men (meaning TWs) hurt women no matter how much I try to convince him otherwise. I sent him things such as SheWon.org (he questioned the accuracy) and asked him how he would explain to his daughter (he has no kids) that she lost an award or sports contest to a male? I did not convince him...

That is interesting to see how you view the CG crowd. I am still learning about it and your reply will give me something to contemplate. There are not many places where I can participate in the discussion on the topic. It would have been great to have been able to be a "malewife" (I hope that is not considered offensive?) The definition I saw is below. But that did not seem possible to live that way where and when I grew up without going trans as only women were supposed to behave that way.

"Malewife is about men finding a place in their life’s and relationships to make themselves more than a paycheck. To say “I can be emotionally there for my spouse, I can clean a toilet, and drive kids to school, and I don’t treat my spouses wants as something expendable”. In a society in which men are often demeaned, mocked, and scorned for picking up socially female roles (say hello to misogyny and gendered contamination!)" and "provide space for guys to be allowed to be feminine, soft, caring, emotionally present, and worth more than their monetary value".

Your comment "choice between liberals who are now actively trying to remove women's rights, and conservatives who have always been trying to remove women's rights" is so accurate and sickening... I have tried to convince some of the women I know that some of what is coming from the liberals is so bad for them, but they seem to only see what the conservatives are doing. I suppose it does come across as odd coming from me.

Liminal · 2023-04-01T19:30:43+00:00

The possibility of TRA influence on a mentally unstable person is a very interesting one and I am glad you brought it up. I hope this idea is presented in more media to help combat it. I have seen where TRAs have people talking about getting rounded up for camps and trying to leave the country and they make me afraid sometimes. They clearly influence their members to threaten and sometimes commit violence against women that are only trying to protect their rights and spaces, so this theory makes sense.

Liminal · 2023-04-01T18:49:28+00:00

This is a good example of why assumptions are not good and perhaps I applied some experiences of my own and my friends. I did not see any of her early history in the stories I read and was not aware of how old she was or when she attended the school, so should not have assumed the things I did. How she was treated for being autistic playing a role is much more plausible. Thank you for correcting me.

Was there any evidence that she was on CSH? I saw that mentioned as a factor, but that could be only rumors.

Liminal · 2023-03-31T20:43:34+00:00

The media coverage all seems biased at this time as some are making a point of the transgender aspect while I see outlets such as CBS are reported to be banning the use of transgender in coverage. If being transgender is part of the motive, then I think it would be fair to include it. My assumption is that along with mental health issues, religion may have played a role for the shooter given that the school was Christian and religion can be at odds with those that are different. I think the right wing will focus on the transgender issue while ignoring mental health issues in the country and easy access to firearms, while the left will claim that transgender has nothing to do with the shooting even if it is part of the motive.

Liminal · 2023-03-20T21:25:21+00:00

You are welcome. TMI I am sure, but I thought some of it could be useful for someone contemplating some of the things I did and possibly discourage them or at least make them aware of some of the risks. There is definitely a price to be paid later in life for doing many of these things and I will be surprised if I survive long enough to reach retirement age. I really feel for the the FTM people that are going to get the worst of it by far. I read Scott Newgent's story and it is heartbreaking. The ones that are really going to suffer are the ones that started very young and none of them want to hear from someone like me...

https://www.genderdysphoriaalliance.com/post/meet-scott-newgent

Liminal · 2023-03-20T21:11:57+00:00

I wish I could have seen it as well. Old-school transsexuals would help bring some balance back perhaps. It upsets me when I see things banned for "hate" for something as basic as stating that things are unfair, yet those that express real hate and advocate violence are not banned. I think your use of "culty" is very appropriate and consider it a cult at this point myself. I read that there are few if any spaces left for women on reddit now.

Liminal · 2023-03-16T16:30:05+00:00

I completely agree with you on this. I grew up pre-internet in a small town with limited access to things such as porn and the behavior you describe was in full force even then. I grew surrounded by amazing women that accepted me for who I am and mostly toxic men that scared me and gave me a lot of grief for even small things such as piercing my ears. All but one of the women I was closest to were hurt badly by men except one and I imagine she was as well, but did not share it. Some of the things I observed and heard when they thought I was part of their group will always haunt me.

Men's atrocious behavior played a role in me rejecting what little masculinity I had early on and emulating women as I could not stand to be part of a group that treats women that way. The changes I made 30+ years ago isolated me from much of men's toxic behavior, but it is always on my mind and I can never fully trust men. I hate finding them attractive as I have seen what darkness is behind their masks. Now I find myself in a newer group that is doing the same sort of despicable behavior in a different way and there is no escape this time. I am trying to fight them in my own pathetic way as I know I am part of the problem...

Liminal · 2023-03-09T14:31:41+00:00

Thank you for pointing out the change in what Matilda reads. I did not catch the meaning of the change and it seems even more insidious than it first appeared... It is bad enough to not be able to trust modern books. It seems like everything must be questioned now. I received a work email about women moving up in manufacturing and found myself scrutinizing each profile and photo to see if they were women (to be celebrated) or someone that has zero business being included (to be viewed with contempt).

Liminal · 2023-03-06T01:18:34+00:00

I am sensitive and generally stick to classics and YA books, but find these changes to be problematic. Some books may seem insensitive, but the time they were written needs to be considered and the past not overwritten or be forgotten. The part that I find truly disturbing is the change for "Aunt Sponge" from being "fat" and "flabby" to "deserved to be squashed by the fruit". So it is problematic to describe her in physical terms, yet all right to advocate violence against her? Many of these changes feel like yet more female erasure and misogyny, while promoting "gender woo" instead of just toning things down a bit for the extra sensitive that should just avoid older works altogether. It seems to be part of the same disturbing trend to make historical figures trans.

Liminal · 2023-03-01T01:46:36+00:00

Thank you, I would be interested. How do I find it?

Liminal · 2023-02-24T01:01:39+00:00

I would tell him to avoid using the main restroom as much as possible, choose less busy times and locations, observe when bullies are going in and out and to try and form friend groups to go together. Tell him that the trans route can seem appealing now, but things will change when he can go out on his own and he could live a life free of many of the problems caused by going trans. I would let him know that he would not cause problems for girls and become a bully himself that way.

Liminal · 2023-02-24T00:47:42+00:00

I always thought tomboys were wonderful since they seemed like they were more free to do and be what they wanted when I was growing up. It really bothers me that I could not feel more free until I did the trans thing. And now to see tomboys and lesbians being pushed into trans is heartbreaking.

Liminal · 2023-02-24T00:33:57+00:00

I feel for the teachers having to endure this sort of thing and it seems like a huge distraction in the classroom.

Liminal · 2023-02-22T19:39:07+00:00

No, as I am not a TRA and am more concerned about non-conforming people. Something is wrong in society when a person feels more accepted and safer when pretending to be the opposite sex...

I did not have much concern about rights and protections until the TRA's became so active. It feels like I am losing what I have due to them and will never join them.

Trans people should be asking for spaces for themselves and restrooms should be designed so that one can use them without outing oneself. I used a unisex one in Europe that had private stalls and it worked well, although I understand the concerns about using spaces men can access. Anything beyond a restroom is optional, so there is not much of an excuse to use other opposite sex spaces in my opinion. I buy clothes and try them on at home and dress for the gym at home and shower when I get back for example. Minor inconveniences for me and I want to prevent women from feeling uncomfortable as much as possible.

The sports issue is beyond bizarre to me and I can't see how anyone can support men in women's sports. They should start their own leagues if they want to play or compete and their should be zero exceptions. I visited shewon.org and felt sickened at what I saw...

Liminal · 2023-02-22T17:14:31+00:00

No, a person would still be their bio sex even with such parts, but it is an interesting question. Even if the printed parts could be created with the correct chromosomes, the vast majority of the person would still be their bio sex. Perhaps similar to someone that received a transplant from the opposite sex. Would such a person become intersex or some sort of hybrid at that point? Some have suggested swapping parts between individuals. Take this to the extreme and assume brains could be swapped and a person could now 90%+ the desired sex. Everything external is now the desired bio sex and only the brain is different. Could that person be considered a member of their desired sex? I sometimes wonder about CRISPR/Cas gene editing in this scenario and what would happen if a person's genetic makeup could be rewritten.

An online friend discussed with me the concept of transferring our minds to a digital space. I spend time in a virtual world and feel free from the limitations of my bio body and can come close to not feeling broken. What if a mind could be transferred to a new body such as in the movie Avatar? Take your example of 3D printing and create a complete body of the opposite sex and transfer the consciousness. Would that person be considered the opposite sex at that point, or would retention of bio sex memories and personality prevent that?

I had a discussion with a Buddhist friend that wants to be a woman and sees reincarnation as a path towards that (I have so far talked him out of doing anything in his current life). Would he really be a woman if that happened? He would have a female body and no conscious memories of being male, but had been one during a previous life.

Liminal · 2023-01-31T01:27:23+00:00

I have had 15 separate surgical procedures on top of a feminine body and that includes SRS (sexual reassignment surgery). No one ever brought up body dysmorphic disorder which I feel they should have in hindsight... The ones I question most are VFS (voice feminization surgery) as I am not sure it was needed and BA (breast augmentation). BA is the worst thing I have ever done and it was like torture for two weeks since they put them under the muscle. One implant only lasted three years and I had to deflate the other one myself. I lived with them that way for 25 years since hormones had an effect. I went to have them removed and the surgeon could not find them, so sewed me back up. I had to have an MRI to convince her that they were there and ended up getting new ones since I was going back under again and wanted to get something out of it. I have the smallest implants she has ever put in and it took some time to convince her that I wanted to look proportionally correct for my body shape and not exaggerated as many seem to want.

SRS turned out reasonable, although more so cosmetically than functionally. I don't have regrets with it as it removed what were to me useless body parts for my orientation and turns out that it helps keeps "chasers" from having any interest. I did have a bad scare from an appointment after surgery as I started bleeding profusely and could only stare in horror for a some seconds at blood ran down my leg and pooled on the carpet... Fortunately I was in still the facility lobby and was able to get it resolved before I bled out. I also had an issue where the surgeon had to place a catheter in the middle of the night while recovering.

One of my main medical transition regrets is that I was diagnosed with osteoporosis in my 40's and some or all is from transitioning and I am limited in the things I can do. I started out with a small frame on the female scale (my wrists belong on a teenage girl) and transitioning made it that much worse. I am also very disappointed in why I was not checked for hormone or chromosomal issues before starting down this path as I have many physical and psychological matches to these issues. No single ones stand out, but they are numerous. The people I attempted to date were aware of odd things with my body, made comments on it and knew i was "different" yet could not explain it. So why did the professionals not check this first? Perhaps I could have been treated so I would not go down this path, or at least have a better understanding. This all started pre-internet, so I had limited opportunities for research. I just knew I was different and did not want to spend the rest of my life alone.

Liminal · 2023-01-28T00:40:44+00:00

I had a discussion about this with a Buddhist friend of mine and had to admit I there is no way I can know how others perceive me. My current practice is to assume that many people (especially women) think I am a feminine gay male larping as a woman and play along with it to be nice. I don't trust what people tell me either unless they comment on my personality. I was once told by a provider that I was “Quiet, soft and feminine” and “unmistakably a woman”. I could go along with the first part as that can apply to males, but the second part was laughable.

Liminal · 2023-01-26T17:07:43+00:00

I am new to this sub and was glad to have found it. I am fairly useless when it comes to debates, but I wanted to find a space for discussions on this topic where I could participate and not be an invader. My journey began around the beginning of the of the aids epidemic and I transed as it was approaching the peak in the early 90's. I am trying to make some sense of what is happening now...

Liminal · 2023-01-25T18:06:25+00:00

I totally agree with you. The AGPs don't care about HSTS other than wanting to have sex with them in my experience and their needs are quite different and very demanding of others to change. I transitioned around the time of Buck Angel by participating in a challenging clinical program and never been an activist nor found any need for the special rights that the AGPs want. If someone hinted about my history on the rare occasion (usually by things such as asking "Do you like musical theater?" out of context), I would try hard to figure out what they picked up on and what I could change to avoid that again and not make them or me uncomfortable.

I once made the error on reddit of suggesting caution with children and how I was glad I went through a difficult program to help me reduce the chances of making a horrible error... I always thought transition should be a last resort and seeing it encouraged is despicable behavior.

Liminal · 2023-01-25T01:45:59+00:00

I believe there is a medical condition behind some cases of transsexuality. Some of the older research mentions seeing underdevelopment in patients and I see descriptions of common body characteristics in HSTS trans that match that. Estrogen exposure (visible signs) and underdevelopment played a role for me along with other factors. I wish I had looked more into the medical aspect and been tested in case something could have helped me such as hormones.

Liminal · 2023-01-25T01:14:55+00:00

I have came across TW in real life due to shared providers and they have not been a positive influence on me. I made friends with a self described AGP in an online world out of curiosity to try and understand the motivation. He freely shares things with me and is one of the reasons I joined this site. Almost all of them pushed me to be more gender critical before all the the insanity I see going on currently.

Liminal