GC: Are we reducing people to their reproductive organs/ability? Is gender identity a mental illness? And if so, what are the similarities between gender identity and other mental illnesses? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When we say sex is determined by gametes, or sex organs, are we reducing people to their body parts and reproductive organs/ability? One criticism I often hear is that people shouldn't be reduced to their gametes and sex organs, that when sex is defined as gametes or sex organs, women are reduced to being incubators, walking wombs, and egg releasers/producers, while men are reduced to being penis/testes carriers, walking penis/testes, and sperm releasers/producers, which is offensive, insulting, dehumanizing, and objectifying to women and men. What are your responses to this criticism?

Defining sex types isn't defining humans. We aren't A sex. We are sexed human beings. Woman is defined as adult human female. Reduction would be to say that women are only reproductive organs. But we aren't. We define women as whole complete human beings. That human word in the definition not only includes our species, but also our humanity and personhood/personality. So anyone that says the definition of women as adult human female is reductive, it's because THEY are the ones erasing women's humanity because they think being female is dehumanizing. Because human is right there in the definition. The only way to reduce women from that definition is if they themselves reduce us by erasing our humanity.

If anyone ever sees the definition of woman, adult human female, and says that it reduces women to body parts or functions, they are exposing themselves. It just means that they don't see anyone with the characteristic of being female as human. They think being female is such a dehumanizing quality, that even being recognized as one means that all your humanity is completely stripped away and you are left with nothing but sex organs and genitals.

QT: If sex is a spectrum, how are human babies made in the wild? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm debating this argument in a different post. But really, one of the main issues in the 'trans/QT community vs the world' is the lack of definitive definitions and meanings behind their ideology. No one has any idea what they mean by anything they say. And they change meanings of words constantly too. One moment it means this, another moment it means that. Just whatever wins for the community in that moment.

QT: If sex is a spectrum, how are human babies made in the wild? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wish I was on Ovarit. I've tried SO many times. Flappy, and many others have given me a code, but for some reason, whenever I start signing up, and I'll never get a verification email. I've tried so many emails. I have no idea why it doesn't work. :( So it's just Twitter and Saidit for me for now.

Both: What do you think of the new Super Straight movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you don't like what's being said, then your problem is with the actions of your community, not the person calling out the bad behavior. We weren't doing anything, the trans community was the one that came in FIRST, made the FIRST actions to take the words for their own use, change the meanings, and then demonize anyone that doesn't agree with the changes that no one outside of the transgender community wanted in the first place.

If you don't want to be called out for appropriating and colonizing the words an oppressed group of people use to name themselves, then give the words back. Make your own. And if you don't want to give them up, stop acting like people using the words' original definitions are bigots. Again male and female humans will exist no matter how bad your community wishes we didn't, no matter how bad your community wants to hide or erase it. So suck it up and either give us our words back, or let us make new ones.

QT: If sex is a spectrum, how are human babies made in the wild? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You too! Don't know how "active" I'll be, but I just felt the urge to come back and see what everyone was up to.

QT: If sex is a spectrum, how are human babies made in the wild? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've missed you!!!! :) I got side tracked on radfem Twitter during the pandemic.

QT: If sex is a spectrum, how are human babies made in the wild? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If any QT members thinks there's more than one sex and can prove it, come collect your One Million Dollars...

https://genderheretics.org/index.php/2020/07/17/gender-heretics-is-offering-1-million-for-a-third-human-gamete/

So strange that no one has collected it. All those "doctors" on Twitter and in the transgender community and still there's not a single person? Do you guys just not need a million dollars? At least do it and give it to a genderist charity or something.

Both: What do you think of the new Super Straight movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time. - World Health Organization

Gender identity is which gender a person bases their identity on/identifies with.

If you've come up with completely new meanings of the word gender, you need to tell people now. Otherwise we are going to keep using the meaning it was before. I mean seriously, the entire debate between 'the world vs the transgender community' almost always comes down to your community constantly changing the meaning of words. If you guys just sat down and listed and defined all your words and then STUCK to them we wouldn't keep having this issue.

Woman - adult female human

Trans community changes it to " a person who identifies with patriarchy's socially constructed gender forced onto members of the female sex"

The trans community says "transwomen are women." then gets mad when people debate that fact because they still use women as it was originally defined, adult female human.

In order to fix communication issues created by the trans community, another community creates new words to name their reality. They tell the trans community they can have the old words, like straight, gay, lesbian, bi, man, woman, but we are adding the word "super" in front of them so you know that we mean something different than you when we speak. "Transwomen are now women" because we let you have the word woman. But transwomen are not superwomen though, because our new word superwoman has a different definintion that the trans communities word "woman".

Then your community gets super pissed because "oh no, they can't just make up new words. They can't just use different words. They must use the words we appropriated and colonized and the meanings we changed them to. If you don't, you're an evil transphobic nazi. Stop making up words to communicate biological realities. It's a hate crime. NO NEW WORDS!! And you must completely ignore the fact that male and female humans exist. If you ever bring it up again, you are just outting yourself as a bigot that wants all trans people dead!! "

Either accept the fact that if you continue to appropriate and colonize words, change the meanings, and then do it OVER AND OVER again, people will continue to create new words to replace the ones you stole. So either make your debate based around the fact that you want to force people to use the words the way YOU want them to, or you make your debate about whether or not you think people should be allowed to make new words to name our reality.

Because it's not about being transgender or not anymore, it's about the reason WHY your community doesn't want people to create and use new words. Because those new words name realities you want to erased.

Both: What do you think of the new Super Straight movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They didn't do it for a hierarchy and you know it. The confusion is the transgender community's fault.

The trans community changed the meaning of words without informing the public. They changed men and women from SEX-based definitions of male and female humans into gender identities based on patriarchy's created gender norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy.

Because they changed the meaning of men and women, it also changed the meaning of sexualities into genderalities. But again, the general public isn't really aware of these changes. Most people don't know. They still assume sexuality is based on, SEX and not the socially constructed gender someone identifies with.

So when they said super, like really straight, they are saying to mean the OLD ORIGINAL meaning of straight with is sexual attraction based on sex NOT gender.

Most people think women and men are male and female humans, not some abstract thought in a person's head. They were saying "super" as a way to get the point accross that their sexuality isn't loose or based on an idea/essence/feeling/abstract thought/social construction of what a woman is, they are saying is based on the REALITY of what a woman is, which is an adult female human. Not on whether or not a person has a "inner woman feeling" or "interal woman personality" or "pink lady brains" or "feminine personality" or "lady essence" or anthing else like that.

That's literally all that means. Sex and gender are two different things. Saying one is NOT the other isn't invalidating the other. Because again, the are NOT the same thing. Someone can have a gender identity, that still doesn't change their sex.

If you use the words as they were created to be used you wouldn't run into these issues. Because your community appropriated man and woman to name gender identities, you WILL have to deal with the consequences of that when people STILL use them as they were originally created for.

If you want to stop the confusion then come up with your own names for the genders. The words that were created to name the socially constructed genders forced onto members of the male sex is masculinity, and for the female sex is femininity. If you said that transwomen are feminine, or have feminine gender identities, literally NO one would argue. Every radfem would agree with you.

But what your community wanted to do was muddy the water and appropriate and colonize words, change the meanings, then you all got angry when people used them the way your community doesn't want to.

If your community just sucked it up, and dealt with the fact that you can't just change the meanings of the words and have everyone on the planet just "go with it", we all would be much further along in this debate.

Because now, people are catching on to the appropriation, and many instead of fighting back to bring the meaning of words to what the ORIGINALLY meant, they decided to create new words to mean the same thing. Which is what the trans community should have done first.

What these supers are actually doing is the POLITE thing and letting you have the colonized and appropriate words, saying "you want them, you can have them then" and then making new words to replace the ones you STOLE.

Your community is just a bunch of whiny colonizers and appropriators getting mad and throwing a little hissy fits because people won't do what you want. People still need words to communicate, especially regarding one of the oldest things humans recognized in our existence, that of sex and male and female humans. You can't erase or change that no matter how hard you try. It's literally written in our DNA. And no matter how hard your community tries to erase it, there will ALWAYS be words, whether newly created or ancient, to explain and communicate the fact that male and female humans exist. The faster your community accepts that fact, the faster we can work on making sure both communities are protected from harm.

Physical biology being less important than identity is biological essentialism? You are talking absolute nonsense.

Believing in gender and thinking gender identities are innate is biological essentialism.

Both: What do you think of the new Super Straight movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transgender ideology IS biological essentialism. Gender IS biological essentialism.

https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095507973

Where is the hierarchy? You still can't point it out. People having a different sexuality than you doesn't make them better or worse. You are claiming there's a hierarchy simply because people have a sexuality different than you.

Both: What do you think of the new Super Straight movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Look at it this way. There are now TWO types of sexualities. Neither is more better or superior to the other, just different.

  1. Genderality - sexual attraction based on which socially constructed gender created by patriarchy your partner and you identify with.

  2. Sexuality- sexual attraction based on the other person's sex.

And then within each group are subgroups.

Genderality - socially constructed gender based attraction.

  • straight - attraction based on one member of the couple having masculine cis gender identity and the other a feminine cis gender identity

  • gay - both members of the couple have a masculine socially constructed gender identity

  • lesbian - both members of the couple have a feminine socially constructed gender identity

  • bi - sexual attraction to both masculine and feminine socially constructed gender identities

  • pan - attraction to ALL socially constructed gender identities.

Sexuality - sex-based attraction

  • superstraight- attraction to a person of the opposite SEX

  • supergay - same-sex attraction for males (SEX)

  • superlesbian - same-sex attraction for females (SEX)

  • superbi - sexual attraction to both SEXes

There is no hierarchy here at all.

Sexual attraction by nature is exclusive. These categories helps create clarity and simplicity when informing others. As the transgender community ALWAYS says, language evolves, things change meaning, and new words are created to change with society's changing perspectives. And society felt the need to create a distinction between genderality and sexuality. Which probably occurred, because like religion, not everyone believes in the same thing. Most people don't believe in biological essentialism and innate gender ideology like the transgender community does. You shouldn't force someone to convert to a religion just because you believe in it, and gender identity ideology is the same way.

Can we kickstart a dating app called "Supersex" for cis only dating? by GConly in SuperStraight

[–]JollyPurple 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Right, but that's not what cis means. We need to make sure we aren't using their words. Cis doesn't mean biological woman. It means a woman who identifies with the social roles, norms, and behaviors expected of women. Only people who identify with those things and think it is innate is cis. Anytime you want to use the word cis, just replace it biological or super.

Can we kickstart a dating app called "Supersex" for cis only dating? by GConly in SuperStraight

[–]JollyPurple 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why cis? Our sexuality isn't based on attraction to someone's socially constructed gender identity. It's based on sex, right? A lot of supers don't believe in gender ideology.

Question to RadFems: was there good reason for banning the GC sub-reddit? Like threats, doxxing, etc. from GC users. Or was it all internal reddit politics and simply not bowing to the transgender movement that got GC banned? by 1st_Class_Mail_Ally in SuperStraight

[–]JollyPurple 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Look at what happened to r/superstraight, it's exactly what happened to the GC subreddit.

Notice how they said that the sub and everyone in it was transphobic and violent and the alt-right and nazis. They did that to GC members. Claiming we were the violent threatening ones. When it reality it was all projection. They were the ones making violent threats and more.

Anywhere you see someone calling someone a TERF or transphobic really examine the situation. You've seen it with your own eyes now, the lies they make up. Most of the time it's just someone that doesn't agree with the dogma of the trans community.

Same thing as superstraight. You don't agree with them, your sexuality is wrong to them, so you instantly become a nazi, or TERF, or alt-right, or Qanon. Or some other garbage. And then they scream and scream in the public sphere that these people (supers and gc men and women) are nazis and want trans people dead and the media and organizations freak and refuse to even look at the situation because they are so scared of being canceled, so they just take the trans community's word for it.

And that's where we are. One side, the gc members and supers, not making violent threats being peaceful in our own groups being hurled with violent threats, rape threats, murder threats, told we are Nazis, and more while the other group completely gets away with it while the public has no idea because they instantly shut their ears and eyes because they don't want to be "on the side of Nazis".

Are Rome and Europe the Root of Patriarchy in the Rest of the World? by MarkTwainiac in GenderCritical

[–]JollyPurple 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Look up Maria Gimbutas and the Kurgan Invasion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

The world was matrifocal/matrilineal and peaceful (communities had no walls/protective barriers (See Minoan, Malta, Çatalhöyük -and other Neolithic Antolian civilizations), weapons were not found in burials, men and women were buried with the same level of goods-women slightly more, etc)until the 3 waves of the Kurgan invasions. It was the proto-indo-europeans that created patriarchy. It started much earlier than the civilizations you are discussing, and before the modern civilizations that we are so familiar today like the Arabs, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc.

The Kurgan invasion was a hypothesis, and many discredited her findings, until recent DNA has proven her work (see the Yamnaya culture).

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132230-200-story-of-most-murderous-people-of-all-time-revealed-in-ancient-dna/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/02/thousands-horsemen-may-have-swept-bronze-age-europe-transforming-local-population

Now the Kurgan invasion theory is the most widely accepted for the dawn of the proto-indo-europeans and the start of patriarchy.

Good books to check out are:

Any book by Maria Gimbutas

The Chalice and the Blade

Invisible women of the prehistory : three million years of peace, six thousand years of war

When God was a Woman

GC: Why can't the words man and woman be defined as something other than "adult human male" and "adult human female"? And why is it false to say "men can have vaginas/uteruses/etc and women can have penises"? by AllInOne in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Man & woman are the combination of sex & gender.

Is there another word for JUST adult female human? Why must woman mean sex and gender? Isn't that sexist? That's saying that any women are women because we identify with our oppression.

GC: Can you explain why a neopenis/phalloplasty is not a penis? If a man is something with a penis, then if a man removes all of his genitals in surgery, why will he still remain a man after surgery? by GarageCar in GCdebatesQT

[–]JollyPurple 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And if a man is something with a penis, then imagine that a man removes all of his genitals in surgery, why will he still remain a man after surgery?

Our whole bodies are male or female. There isn't a default human body with just male or female sex organs thrown into them. That's why if a man removes his sex organs he's still male. It's the reason why medical research on male people only doesn't work for female humans.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/24/why-does-medicine-treat-women-like-men?CMP=share_btn_tw

They can't be serious, right? by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]JollyPurple 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It looks like they forgot to erase the man spine. The woman's is on the left, ours curves like that so we can carry the forward weight of pregnancy.