New lesbian film trailer - "Ammonite" with Kate Winslet and Saoirse Ronan

Innisfree · 2020-08-25T18:52:38+00:00

Joke off Twitter:

-- What do the Titanic and Saoirse Ronan have in common?

-- Kate Winslet went down on them.

Innisfree · 2020-08-10T05:38:03+00:00

Unfortunately girls were always targeted for refusing to be a supporter, a carer. And lesbians are more prone to be pressured simply because we are a minority and nobody will come to our defense. So we will have to, yet again, toughen up and stand our ground.

And like you mention these young people are just that - young. Most of them are not in the mindspace of battling activists. Probably all they are used to and all they want to do is have a good time with friends online - share memes and opinions about pop culture or common interests. They don't want to be in a space where they have to be constantly upset at the representatives of the trans community, who they are told is the most vulnerable. They'd feel terrible being on gender critical, for instance, and understandably so.

And this is where the tone and the content of the discourse comes up. I'd love this forum to be the opposite of the negativity on other platforms. Where Instagram and tiktok are about personal brands and impressing your peers, I wish here was about real, down to earth people having honest discussions, where twitter and reddit are filled with mysoginy and wokeness, I wish here was about the diversity and complexity of life and view points, a place where we can dissect an argument and laugh at our own silliness in the same breath. So far, the discussions on this forum have been just like that and that's why I like it. But the question is would young people like it? And should we expect them too join this forum? I think the 'influencer sapphics' wouldnt be caught near here, but the people who most need it, the young lesbians, isolated from their community for one reason or another, will find their place here and will appreciate it.

Innisfree · 2020-08-25T18:31:26+00:00

How are we feeling about this? I struggled to watch all of it, can't get used to the age difference (i know it's not that big - but it just looks like it is).

Every time a bloke makes a movie about lesbians (like in this case), my insides tighten and I am mentally preparing for anger/disappointment. Let's hope that Francis Lee (the director) who is gay, will not end up giving a more prominent place to men in the movie. I'm off to try and rewatch the trailer :)

Edit: BTW, Francis is a good director. His gay love story "God's Own Country" was great - gritty and real.

Edit 2: Ok, I've rewatched it: I'm a huge prude LOL, I dig it now :)

Innisfree · 2020-08-20T21:34:08+00:00

This reminds me of a comedian saying that women were created by an Italian designer on a relaxed evening sipping champagne in-between visits from the muses. While men were a Friday night's late shift at a soviet factory.

Innisfree · 2020-08-19T12:50:43+00:00

You're skirting dangerously close to insulting people, so don't be surprised when someone takes offense. When you use terms like "dead on the inside" about people who may have no choice but put their life on hold because of covid, and then double down by making generalizations about ppl going through incredibly tough experiences like caring for their elderly parents, you don't come across that well at all. If you are a believer in stoicism, no need to disparage those who are not.

Innisfree · 2020-08-09T21:59:39+00:00

Hmm. I am ambivalent about such quotes, makes me think: "On a systemic level, maybe." Personally I'd be wary trying to apply this to our daily lives. Yes, men as a group, are objectifying women. And women, as a group, actively participate in this system, because most women love men and play the game to curry their favor.

Even this quote was probably written by a straight woman. It it so categorical about her entire life being defined by male attention. As a lesbian, sure I feel self-conscious in public about my appearance, but I was never so preoccupied with men as to be fearful of their fantasies. Fantasize away bucko, but i draw the line when your fantasies in any way affect my life. And I am grateful to the feminists who came before, because thanks to them no man can ruin my life financially now, I have an education and a job and can stand my ground.

You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur.

That's the tragic aspect of womanhood - learning from an early age to keep yourself in line, God forbid you upset the ever present spirit of patriarchy. But as lesbians it is easier for us than for straight women to unlearn any internalized misogyny. We are more aware of the nefarious impact of the male gaze. Well, even if it doesn't feel easier, we sure have more of an incentive.

Edit: Just to clarify, i don't want to deny anybody's experience. I know so many women and am inclned to think it is the norm, who are absolutely pestered by men and their weird ideas of how a woman should behave. And not everybody has the personality or wants to keep swatting them away - that takes energy and quite a bit of what society sees in women as 'aggressive'.

Innisfree · 2020-09-04T18:27:04+00:00

And good on you for giving us all a master class on how to come across as patronising and hostile. 10/10

Innisfree · 2020-08-22T19:04:28+00:00

Back in the days when I worked in a hoity-toity office I went for Colin Firth's look in "A single man", minus the tie.

There is something to be said about the dressing up ritual every morning: buttoning down a crisp shirt, locking the belt on lined suit pants. And the final touches: a bit of perfume and a watch. It steels you against the world in a way, and like Buckskin said "appeases the masses".

These days, I'm chill - t-shirt, casual pants. But, I still feel naked without a watch, so there's that.

Innisfree · 2020-08-17T14:28:44+00:00

As a side-note, I really enjoy when movies show solidarity between lesbians and gay men.

I absolutely love that. And I feel like it's been lost a bit. With more acceptance we gravitated to our own spaces (well, more the guys so than us - we don't seem to have that many lesbian spaces :)) Recently in my country a guy was beaten up by some homophobes and a video of it was posted online. It was nice to see how lesbians rallied around him and fought for him.

Innisfree · 2020-08-13T21:13:37+00:00

I've retreated from that idea of love. Mostly because my experiences so far have been with women who initially overwhelmed me with their feelings and as soon as I started truly falling for them, they moved on.

As a result I think this idea that women quickly fall out of love, the fact that "newness" is important to them to be in love (plus that lesbian bed death cliche) took root in my brain (which I wish it didn't).

So yeah, I've accepted the fact that "I'm boring" and at this point don't even have the energy to engage in a relationship.

But ppl take heart, there's a reason why in lesbian culture women over 40 are considered hot and are sought after. There's no way that someone over 40 can be considered boring, as long as they have their lives figured out and their feet firmly planted on the ground.

Edit: spelling

Innisfree · 2020-09-16T15:38:38+00:00

I have a friend who recently also did this. I am so tempted to ask what was her thinking behind this. I genuinely want to understand. Is it the simple "I don't feel like a woman" (in which case they give credence to the understanding of woman as the worst of what patriarchy projects on us) or is it "I want to abolish the categories of woman and man, so we are all free" . For the last case there are too many questions to write here.

Either way it is sad.

Innisfree · 2020-08-15T23:54:25+00:00

I'm willing to bet that these are people form a younger demographic who perhaps are very concerned about not offending anyone in the LGBTQ+ and may be enjoying the appearance of an all-loving, all-accepting community. The key word here is of course 'appearance'.

I think it's fantastic you did the data breakdown- thank you! It's always good to have reliable info (well as reliable as we can from a survey). I am wary when I see these over-generalizations "There are only men there". While not far from the truth, the more we know, the better we can understand what is happening.

Innisfree · 2020-08-10T16:21:13+00:00

Men's sexuality seems to work as "I want it, therefore it's mine." Anything they don't want doesn't have any value.

Not wrong. As someone with a more androgynous appearance, I've known some peace from skirt chasers. #blessed

Innisfree · 2020-09-12T15:14:58+00:00

Remembered sth else. Paradoxically, Titanic with Kate and Leo, is good rep of a sex scene in general.

The scene was focused on showing hotness (the sweaty car windows nail it) rather than body parts. I mean it was so successful in doing that, that the hand sliding on the glass is part of our mythology of desire now. And it's not tainted by heterosexual dynamics, man and woman sex is not the first thing that comes to mind when I remember "the hand" :). I may be wrong...

Innisfree · 2020-08-20T11:20:51+00:00

Thank you for sharing your experience. I find a lot of commonalities. I'd like to share mine under the banner of:

constant strain with disillusionment from masculinity and womanhood.

The defining experience for me was loneliness. Now, when puberty hit my only friends - a few guys, began to shun me. (I related a lot to what u/whateverman said on the thread on SW). And I didn't understand why at the time. That was painful. The girls just tolerated me. But I stayed away from them because i was afraid of any potential homophobia/gay panic etc. So, as a MOC woman you end up always on the outside looking in. And it isn't kind to anyone's self-esteem. But if, like OP says, you have trauma on top of that, well I can only imagine how tough it is.

The truth is, I still don't make friends or socialize as much. I find it tiring stepping outside as a masculine woman. I don't have the energy to always deal with whatever shitty person I will meet today on my commute etc. Sure we cope, I'm just saying it's tiring at best, and actually dangerous at worst.

Just realized why I have trouble writing this post: I've been isolating and distancing from people for so long, zoning out when I'm in public and suppressing any negative memories (which is easy, I'm really forgetful :) ) that at this point I just buried most of my past experiences as a butch. Here's to living in our heads/dream worlds! :)

Edit: cut a point on emotional development I brought in previous threads.

Innisfree · 2020-08-19T00:15:04+00:00

My God once the pandemic is over I think I'll skip a few parties before testing the waters. Give people time to let out the bottled up need to socialize/be intimate.

This is coming from a particularly vivid memory of my shy ass going to a party and this gorgeous girl making a strong move on me, using her body rather than her words. She was dancing very provocatively against me and I was stuck between being delighted and confused as to how to react (she seemed quite tipsy). Ultimately I decided she must be very tipsy, so I backed off.

Next morning I'm on my way to work, being in my head and generally pissed off about having to join the working masses and who do I see beaming at me? I only recognized her when she passed me by and by that time it was too late to run after her and ask her out for a coffee. Talk about regrets :)

Edit: so yeah, it seems I'm no flirt. Looking forward to maybe learning some tips from this thread :)

Innisfree · 2020-08-17T14:59:29+00:00

Jamie Babbit the director is a lesbian if I'm not mistaken. She said in an interview: “I wanted to make the world of the movie very artificial and polyester. I think it’s a great comment on the artificiality of gender identity.”

Hello? :) I think she would feel at home on Saidit with us lol.

But really I think the film is so successful because it deftly puts the nail in the coffin of conversion therapy using Humour, without being mean to its proponents.

What can be more devastating than laughing at the ridiculousness of sth? Hannah Arendt would agree with her concept of the banality of evil.

And what about how they just skewer the clichés: the effiminate homosexual, vegetarianism, liking Melissa Etheridge. In general I quite enjoyed the cheeky representation of the different types of gays and lesbians.

RuPaul's character - no sane person would believe he was, or indeed can be cured. :)

Take that homophobes :)

Innisfree · 2020-08-10T04:07:21+00:00

so I'm found on random nature trails.

David Attenborough voice: here is the lesbian in her natural habitat, among trees and rivers deftly conquering the wild landscape. Her confident gaze and short nails signal her unavailability to men and her attire further confirms her interest in women: a subtle balance between practicality and lesbian fashion.

Btw in France lesbians who like camping, hiking etc are called quechua lesbian, quechua being a sports/outdoors brand.

Innisfree · 2020-09-15T16:08:02+00:00

I'll add a firefighter and a boat captain (a nod to the lesbian pirates of yore)

Innisfree · 2020-09-12T14:33:34+00:00

That's a great one - thank you! Some ebook shopping is in order.

Not that anybody wants to know, but the hotest scenes from the whole series to me are when they show Ann Walker's face at the moment Anne Lister "goes in". Them eyes close, them fine eyebrows go up and the whole face shines out a sort of wondrous pleasure. There's a word for that - beatitude. And there are those barely audible moans she does, that are just... Ughhhhhh

Anyway, Sophie Rundle I RESPECT your acting skills, nothing else :D

Innisfree · 2020-09-11T22:31:23+00:00

It helps focusing more on some positives: the critical community that has sprung up around bad representation. Namely lesbian bloggers and journalists. About 10 years ago this community was verging on the mainstream one, even breaking through at times. And no doubt played a great role in improving representation. Clexacon comes to mind, and some new Yorker journalists, but I'm sure there are better examples you guys can give. There used to be great places online were we could come together and discuss what specifically was bad about such and such character's storyline.

Unfortunately as you all point out, queer theory has made the whole entreprise toothless by diluting it with a myriad of identities and contradictory demands.

Innisfree · 2020-08-26T01:01:37+00:00

"I want to believe" (insert X-Files music) that it is possible for two adults to transcend age difference and find some sort of equality. But they would have to be some extraordinarily wholesome people - very very rare. Or they just transform their dynamic into something positive for both - again, rare.

As to the tendency in the creative industries to insert unequal power dynamics in lesbian relationships to appeal to heterosexual sensibilities of dominant and dominee - I vote against. Remains to be seen how this movie spins it.

Innisfree · 2020-08-15T08:34:59+00:00

Closets are warm because they’re safe. That’s the simple truth. Everybody gets to keep the comfort of the status-quo, for a little while longer. But you will inevitably have to tell your folks, for instance when you will have a serious relationship.

It does get better. And the reason is because you:

practice to be mindful that I am my own person and not just play the role of a daughter, niece, student

and generally focus on building your life: career, financial independence etc. Once people see you building those things there are fewer ways their homophobia can affect you and you have a higher chance of finding the right partner. The trick is, it’s easier to build when your family is supportive of you.

Or since I've had an ok life, I also feel guilty since this is a hurdle and inconvenience I have to put others through.

You know, nobody wants to cause inconvenience to the people they love. But the thing is your orientation is not an inconvenience, it’s not your fault. You didn’t choose that, none of us did. But what you can do, is make the best of it.

So if i were close to my parents like you say you are, I'd try to come out to them and build a stronger relationship. But I’d also only do it if I were living separately and was not dependent on them in any way. In my experience people need some time and space to process such news.

PS: I’m from a former communist country, so while culturally not the same, the family obligations are very important and it’s very important to save face – project the right image of the family. As a result people here are very careful about coming out: it’s usually to just one parent or one sibling. And if they find a partner and are financially independent – then they tell everybody concerned. It’s what I did. But I wish I could have all my family support me from the beginning. And yes, back when I was young nobody around even knew about gay people. I was so deep in the closet I could see into other dimensions - things are so much better now. :)

Innisfree · 2020-08-10T16:06:11+00:00

I agree with the other posters that the root is simple misogyny. And my, very, very biased solution to this, is good representation (I love films, ok? :) )

I feel like in popular culture lesbians never really articulated a coherent strong vision for the masses of what our lives are like. What we are about. Sure there have been successful attempts, mostly confined to the community, given women stories in general struggled to appeal to the wider audiences.

But now the culture has shifted, I believe there is an opportunity to make exclusively lesbian stories cool. It can't come from the States in my opinion. Hollywood seems too risk averse, they can't conceive of a lesbian film without any men, if their life depended on it.

And that's what I think we need. A lesbian love story/blockbuster without any men in it. The French did it. It's time for more. Sure most men will find a way to fetishize it, and precisely because of that we need movies that very clearly and resolutely say a big "F off" to male desire.

If I could write, my passion project would be a TV series on lesbians during the witch trials from 1400 to 1600 or so. It ties in rather nicely with the current 'witch hunt'.

Innisfree · 2020-08-04T21:25:32+00:00

Here's an interesting article: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/03/02/lesbian-nation

This is not really about cults, more about women-only communities in the past. But some of the excesses I think illustrate pretty well what happens when you take a bunch of different people and have them pressure-cook in a restrictive-community. I think it was shared previously on TL, so if the person who shared it reads this - thank you.

Edit: spelling

Innisfree · 2020-08-01T19:42:59+00:00

I'm in the giant cupboard under the stairs that is Eastern Europe.

Innisfree · 2020-07-29T23:47:39+00:00

Your comment reminded me of Kate McKinnon's sketches on SNL "Whiskers R We". Perhaps the lesbians and cats stereotype wins out here :) PS. Great username

Innisfree · 2020-10-06T22:18:27+00:00

The best one I read was from florasis on tribbing. I vote for her to give a breakdown of the best sex positions again, that's crucial information.

She's our tribbadour lol (tribbadour - troubadour :) )

Innisfree · 2020-09-06T21:30:33+00:00

Yearning is perhaps the defining triumph of both the film and the novel. I think Rooney Mara doesn't get enough praise for how well she conveyed the introvert engulfed by this private passion for a glamorous woman. Therese's eyes and silence speak volumes, at times you almost feel how full she is with yearning and later, with desire for Carol. It's no accident they used the photographer trope (hello High Art, Disobedience), not only is it a good opportunity for Therese to observe Carol, but it lets the audience see Therese's infatuation develop.

A standout is the Saul Leiter inspired cinematography. The shots through rain-stained windows together with the colour scheme really bring the early 50s to life.

And the music! If you want a slice of the 50-60s Americana, with the "cloistered housewife longing for another life" feeling, Carter Burwell is your man. He does yearning exquisitely.

Innisfree · 2020-08-31T05:45:51+00:00

In what regards the ending I have also felt devastated on first impression but after watching one of Celine's interviews, it seems necessary to her project. The film is a manifesto on love, art and feminism. On the one hand she wanted to upend this trope of love at first sight by showing, as Lez put it "the delicate dance" of two women falling in love, and on the other to upend the myth of "true love" being only the love that ends in marriage and the two people stay together forever. On this last point I think the film deftly shows how love, regardless of how long the people stay together, is in a way everlasting - the memory of things we shared and the gift of knowing another person's world are all a part of us forever. And here is where art comes in, it fills the void and consoles us when we can no longer be together. So in a way a relationship nourishes us not only while it lasts, but even in its ending remains an invaluable source of growth. It's really a way of looking at the world, instead of seeing only the loss of a lover, you focus on what can fill this loss - on potential if you will. And you console yourself with art and the memory of love. Oof so hard to explain all the things this film makes you feel, so many layers like spirette said :) I suppose it can be also said that we should not be like Orpheus trying to possess our Eurydice, but trust in the delicate alchemy of love to endure and if it does not, we can keep it alive through memory and art.

Edit: clarity

Innisfree · 2020-08-22T04:12:10+00:00

One word - lakes. Get that woman into a boat, grab onto the paddles. As you sail on, so does the conversation. Her eyes will catch the reflection of light on water, so will yours, you will feel the need to quote a Shakesperean sonnet, she will complete it and Boom - you're married!

On a serious note: a hike sounds great! It lets the conversation flow and generally predisposes to a great mood for weeks.

Edit:spelling

Innisfree · 2020-08-21T09:43:50+00:00

Beekeeper and translator.

Dream job: acting. It allows you to embody and learn from the lives of so many different people. I would love doing the background work for a character: learn everything about a time period, accents, body movement, professions. Getting to a point where you can improvise in character would be almost like time travel.

Innisfree · 2020-08-19T21:15:12+00:00

When they jerk away they don't see you, they see some otherworldly concoction of misinformation, stereotypes and fears that have sprung up in their brains like weeds in the dark. That's for sure!

Innisfree · 2020-08-19T17:02:00+00:00

Yep, you get quite a window into masculinity, i. e. you hear some shit. It also doesn't happen to me now, I've softened.

Innisfree · 2020-08-19T00:45:33+00:00

I've thought some more about it and from this flirting scale I'm definetly a 2. 😂

I like your shoes (I knew a guy using this as an ice-breaker each and every time :))
Hi, I hope this isn't too forward, but I'd like to have coffee with you sometime. Here's my number, you're under no obligation to ring. (confidently smiles while gracefully backing away)
Hey gorgeous, when do you get off work? I know a nice place where we can go.

No, but seriously ppl, do you have some nice ice-breakers?

Innisfree · 2020-08-17T15:34:51+00:00

She has better chemistry with the ladies than Ruby Rose for goodness sake.

Ain't that the truth!

Innisfree · 2020-08-15T01:12:17+00:00

It is particularly touching to see attachment to humans in cats, because there are all these negative stereotypes that surround them - that they are unfeeling, that they are arrogant and selfish. Lies, I tell you! :)

They know if and where you are in pain, and if you lied down, this ball of fluff will position itself over the painful area and start working it's healing magic.

Oh and singing, my cat was sensitive to that. First false note and you'd get eight pounds of fur jump in your face and leave you with a scratch makeover. Does yours tolerate singing?

Innisfree · 2020-08-14T22:00:57+00:00

If These Walls Could Talk 2 (for a dive in history)

Innisfree · 2020-08-13T20:36:57+00:00

What a briliant find! Never heard of the "fucked from beneath" either. Never ceases to amaze me the arrogance and pretence of such people coming up with a 'cure' when confronted by an actual lesbian.

Innisfree · 2020-08-09T22:46:59+00:00

How dare you :) No, but seriously the mods worked hard to grow and keep TL, then they worked hard to organize and promote this place. And there are great people on here. These spaces don't just spring up like mushrooms after the rain, they take investment from good people and contribution from us to exist.

Innisfree · 2020-08-03T16:23:47+00:00

This, all of this. The way I used to cope with specifically my breast size is scrunching my shoulders and wearing baggy clothes. Now I am dealing with the resulting bad posture and general social awkwardness. But the thing is all the fears and dysmorphia were not because I disliked my body - I just disliked the ill treatment and the tiring, oh so tiring looks I got when ppl clocked me as a butch. Now I am older, I couldn't care less. The one thing I regret is not fighting more to go to sports classes. I was bullied at my gym once (this is freshly post soviet country), left. Tried boxing for a while, was the only girl among leering 40 y.o dudes with no proper changing facilities, left. Used to run until work and studies swallowed all my time. The reason I bring up sports is because they are a great confidence booster, especially in adolescence/youth. I exercise at home now of course, but that's just to not die when I have to take three flights of stairs lol

Innisfree · 2020-09-15T09:41:46+00:00

Ahaha at least reddit can inspire great poetic expression. As a sign of appreciation please accept this slightly butchered limmerick:

There once was a sailor named Moon

Who loved reading r/drama till noon

But the ban wave came

And ruined her game

Now our sailor from Moon

Writes fun poems at noon

And shares them with lezziez on saidit

So, s*ck it reddit!

Innisfree · 2020-09-07T09:57:46+00:00

It is so ironic how the bourgeois culture of yore could not imagine women as sexual beings and started inculcating in them the very same. Mind you, the world provided them enough proof that women can be sexually active, voracious even, but they pathologised it in others to set themselves apart: "My daughter is not like those uncouth working class girls or those sex-crazed maevens" :). And today we have them say "I am special because i am demi-sapio-afdhashfhf-sexual". Ffs!

The most unnatural thing in this whole situation is not the ideas they come up with, but the comfortable bubble they live in that twists minds in the first place.

Meanwhile, lesbians have always existed and will always exist, as will their ways of finding each other, be it drag or Boston Marriages or "friendships", we be inventive. :) The only thing I worry about is who will pass down our histories, our way of seeing the world.

Innisfree · 2020-08-28T03:10:03+00:00

Ahh, this three bedroom situation is indeed a dream. I sense a trend. Perhaps we could use it as an identifier on dating apps:

"If you like three-bedroom apartments, and getting caught in the rain, If you're not into yoga, If you're into champagne , If you like making love at midnight, In the dunes on the cape, I'm the love that you've looked for, Write to me and escape"

In advance apologies to people tired of cheesy dating app profiles (I'm not on apps so don't know that world) , I just couldn't resist - the song was bursting out of me. :)

Innisfree · 2020-08-27T21:51:26+00:00

I know the subject is almost esoteric and dependent on a myriad of variables. But in what regards compromises, from past experience I have learned not to compromise on personal space. If I were to be living with someone who wants me around 24/7 - well that would be me in a month.

Innisfree · 2020-08-20T10:45:58+00:00

Adding my name to what RC says here. Hope you're taking care of yourself and focusing on what's important for you.

Innisfree · 2020-08-19T11:29:27+00:00

Hey, more power to you. Just take care of yourself and others out there: them usual precautions, masks and distancing whenever necessary and I hope things take a turn for the better for you. I truly do!

Edit: still wish you well, but also wish you to find a bit more empathy for those you disagree with.

Innisfree · 2020-08-18T23:20:22+00:00

This is a great, nuanced write up of the situation.

While I understand the urge to discuss this subject from a theoretical point of view, my own position is that it is best addressed on a case-by-case basis. That is, if a new user comes here to post about their specific life experiences and asks for opinions/help. For the general treatment may I humbly suggest using the search function on this sub before posting. And if not finding there your answers of course any contribution is welcome.

Innisfree · 2020-08-17T15:16:51+00:00

I'd just wish I was super smart. So I can invent sth useful for humanity. Like a vaccine, or a treatment for cancer etc.

Innisfree · 2020-08-11T17:32:55+00:00

Username checks out.

I'm in the same boat around people I trust. But taking Buckskin's lead otherwise.

Innisfree · 2020-08-08T02:48:43+00:00

I'm probably that relative to my 10 cousins. But they seem happily heterosexual :)

I would've loved to have a gay aunt though. I think we'd save ourselves a lot of time on therapy if we had a lesbian elder around while growing up.

Innisfree · 2020-08-07T19:10:28+00:00

My every weekend is spent DIY-ing, playing guitar, going camping (when I can) and taking motorcycle driving lessons to join the ranks of dykes on bikes. If that's stereotypical - I love it! Also about an hour ago I discovered I enjoy plumbing (occasioned by a blocked drain). Cue plumbing jokes... Lol

Innisfree · 2020-07-29T20:55:37+00:00

I get your point. I have been musing lately about it myself. Would it be better if I could take a magic pill and be straight? Of course much depends on context. In my very patriarchal country being a straight woman comes with it's own baggage. So, impossible to compare on a large scale. The one undeniable thing is that the dating pool for lesbians is so much smaller - if companionship is important to one, this is a huge drawback. I myself have seemed to go straight from wide-eyed wonder at the lesbian world and the possibilities it opened in my 20s to a sort-of self-imposed celibacy now in my 30s. God knows where the resignation came from? :) But I can't say I'm unhappy, considering the mess that things are in, there is a strange comfort in being on the sidelines. Looking forward to getting a dog, among my books and you lovely people, I shall truly want for nothing. :D

Innisfree · 2020-07-29T20:20:51+00:00

Besides what the other users said, it's spending time on forums like this and seeing people go through similar experiences that helps one feel less alone and the stigma peels away by itself with time. Plus the canon, starting with Sappho, all the way to modern icons like Céline Sciamma. There are plenty of inspiring figures throughout history and in the present day. One thing I love about being a lesbian is that it went hand in hand with my interest for other cultures and languages - lesbians are such a minority that the canon is inevitably international. For instance, through the recent hit "Portrait of a Lady on Fire" I finally learned French and discovered quite a few lesbian writers. German next - suggestions of inspiring personalities very much appreciated. :)

Innisfree · 2020-07-27T22:23:16+00:00

Great to have you here, and can I just say, your vacation sounds heavenly!

Innisfree · 2020-09-21T23:18:52+00:00

It's presumably one lesbian's issue so we are all asked to join in solidarity and share this experiential wisdom. Apparently it is a truth so big, that nobody until OP had the courage to state it.

Innisfree · 2020-09-18T23:11:32+00:00

Pretty insightful!

If a woman touches you and/or plays with her hair when speaking with you, she's flirting and/or interested in you depending.

In Eastern Europe, most of the lesbians of my generation are butch looking. So i am just imagining the lot of us, starting to play with our hair and touch each other loooooooool as in never gonna happen. Isn't the world a big and wonderful place lol

Innisfree · 2020-09-17T01:38:04+00:00

Seconded, down to the last letter.

Innisfree · 2020-09-16T23:27:50+00:00

I think ultimately her answer will not be that interesting because it's her life and I don't want to dig into it. What is interesting is how we got into this mess in the first place - the history of thought (logical fallacy, more like). I'm reading Monique Wittig's "The Straight Thought" now. The Monique Wittig who said "lesbians are not women" and who wanted to abolish the categories of sex (not even gender) . She is also the one who inspired Judith Butler's "Gender Trouble" - the great troubler of normativity :).

So far I can say that it's like talking to a PhD student who's taken mushrooms for the first time and chased them down with a few tequila shots. There's some good stuff there, but it's swimming under a sea of barf as Strictly would say. I might come back with a post on it if my small brain will be able to gauge the greatness of her thoughts.

PS: this post is mainly in the hope that better minds than mine can start a thread on the history of queer theory and the role of lesbians in it, because it seems lesbians have started this effing mess.

Innisfree · 2020-09-13T20:12:53+00:00

There's such a negative connotation to strap on sex within female homosexual circles that women who are into it, often have low self esteem regarding sex due to forever hearing, 'its wrong', 'it's too hetero-whatever'.

I can't speak to all but it would seem a pity letting what the community thinks affect their self-esteem. I can see though how it can make it hard to find a partner who enjoys the same thing. But in principle, if one finds such a partner, I would hope they can close the bedroom door on other people's hangups about sex and just enjoy themselves. Consenting adults and all that.

Hehe I think Mary Oliver is in order again: "let the soft animal of your body love what it loves" lol

PS: when it comes to rep on-screen though I think strap on sex is not a problem, as long as it is not the only thing shown - not to give the idea that this is all lesbians do. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: clarity

Innisfree · 2020-09-10T13:01:56+00:00

Long live labia! Carpe clitoris! Fingering forever! 😂

Innisfree · 2020-08-19T04:25:12+00:00

As far as I'm concerned, everybody putting their life on hold in big ways right now is already dead on the inside.

That's the loudest "Carpe diem" I've heard in a while lol

Innisfree · 2020-08-14T07:49:49+00:00

The recent great posts about exercise and periods brought this topic to my mind. I grew up at a time when women's health wasn't discussed except in the context of pregnancy and birth, so I kind of missed out on period education so this post is more for people who for one reason or another also were not exposed to it.

I wish i knew this when I tried boxing and couldn't quite keep up - i was doing everything wrong and trying to keep pace with 'the boys' :)

Innisfree · 2020-08-11T20:01:41+00:00

Yes. I think modern political lesbians or as someone else in this thread said 'lesbian cosplayers' do create a bad rep but are they really that influential across the world. In my conservative country nobody heard of political lesbians, the concept doesn't exist here. But does that stop men trying to have sex with lesbians. Noooo, men actively pursue lesbians.

Look at South Africa - corrective rape. Look at Latin America - lesbians are targeted specifically for being lesbians - it's like they're some high value prey for men. Edit: spelling

Innisfree · 2020-08-09T17:50:09+00:00

Agree with everything you set out. There's a concept here in Europe that is tied in with all this hardship: lesbian genius. When I first came across it I winced, here's another 'feel good' label, an attempt to exceptionalise a group by members of the very same group. But they do have a point.

I think all the difficulties outlined by you and experienced by so many lesbians put pressure on us to succeed, to go out there and get what we want, because it sure isn't going to fall into our lap. I mean just look at this forum. People here know at least three languages, play musical instruments, have travelled, have a wealth of different interests, pursuing great jobs, trying to build financial stability etc.

The other day I was reading an attack on Christopher Hitchens from the '90s, some critic took a stab at his bisexuality with the usual homo insults. And other critics joined in saying, ohh the good old days when homos were closeted - their poetry, their art was so much better, so beautifully filled with suffering and anguish. Well I rofled at that, straight people saying how beautifully we suffer in the closet. So to that I reply, you have no idea what we can achieve out of it.

Innisfree · 2020-08-09T01:21:42+00:00

Some red flags in my experience:

vagueness in the language she uses when talking about her attraction, or the fact that she's never been attracted to women she met, just celebrities/movie stars
a one-sidedness of her worldview: saying "Don't you just hate men!" over and over.
focus on one aspect of a relationship to the detriment of others - like pda (this is the domain of the girls who used to ID as bi for cool points)
I've had quite a few times the look of incomprehension from so-called lesbians when I would bring up specifically lesbian experiences, like lonelinesss and the small likelyhood of finding a partner. It's as if these women realize deep down that they will always have the option of men and they just stare at you like: "What you talking about?"

But the thing is people are complicated, there's internalised shame and self-esteem issues and we do change and grow out of things. As long as people are not treating you like an object but show a genuine interest in you as a person, I think they deserve a chance.

Innisfree · 2020-08-07T23:28:31+00:00

Being good friends with your ex is a great one. It actually warrants its own thread. There's something beautiful about one type of intimacy morphing into another and I think it happens more often in lesbian relationships than in straight ones.

Innisfree · 2020-08-07T22:27:29+00:00

Lol this is so good it should have a name! A sort of lesbian Murphy's law. I propose either Sappho's law (she knows all about exes) or Hypatia's law (first female mathematician on record).

Innisfree · 2020-08-03T16:04:44+00:00

Hell yes! The amount of goodness!

Innisfree · 2020-07-29T22:12:20+00:00

It is very hard for me to imagine what it would be like growing up in such countries where the option of transition as you put it, is made to seem easy and risk-free. My recent interest in the issue, as I am sure, for quite a few on this sub, was conditioned by my own desire as a teenager to somehow be a boy. For a child it may seem as a solution to all problems. And the key word here is "child". Add to that neurodiversity, of which we are only beginning to scratch the surface, body dismorphya and perhaps even the possibility of some hormonal influences on the brain during pregnancy (who really knows?). It is very hard to untangle which influence here is primary and which is secondary and so on. I would also like to add that it seems neurodiveristy has been with us since the dawn of time, and body dismorphya as an issue (especially in women) is also historically pretty well documented - the difference is that people now are encouraged to put these experiences into certain frameworks and have the time and what seems most strange to me, the agency from a pretty early age, to focus on these instead of dealing with the prosaic business of getting on with life. I also think parents in the West are in an extremely unenviable position - there seems to be little time for quality parenting (work eats all) and few opportunities for kids to have a meaningful and rich social life offline.

Innisfree · 2020-09-08T21:16:37+00:00

In view of the answers, I think the old L Word theme song needs a rewrite:

Girls in tight tank tops Not wearing their bras Chicks smacking asses And touching them titties

Women who long, love and lust Women who give This is the way It’s the way that we live

Talking, laughing, loving, breathing Stroking, moaning, kissing, tribbing, Riding, giving, taking, coming

This is the way It’s the way that we liiiiive!

Edit: Visual representation of the last half-hour in my house 😂

Innisfree · 2020-09-07T08:02:19+00:00

I remember the "I never looked like that" moment. I was thinking what lesbian would say that? It was definitley where the love scene went downhill.

As to the age gap, I think the film made an effort to soften some of Patricia Higsmith's predilections, that come across a bit more pointedly in the book. Whether that effort was successful is for the viewer to decide. For those who want to explore more why the film didn't quite sit well with them, this piece on the history of the book is a brill summary.

Innisfree · 2020-09-05T06:37:06+00:00

It used to be reading really sad books. A while ago I started one called "A Man Asleep" by Georges Perec. The dude in it is slipping into a deep depression. I started by agreeing with the feelings described and by the middle I was going "Shoot man, I can't follow we're you're going" and somehow felt better after leaving it. Other times I go back to favorite poems like "The Lake Isle of Innisfree" or "Ode to a Nightingale". Lately I found great comfort in the writings of Hannah Arendt - like drinking from a cold spring on a hot summers day. One of my favorite directors - Chantal Akerman, who despite suffering from serious bouts of depression, was entirely self-taught and achieved quite a lot, said that when she watched a certain director's films she felt it gave her permission to do whatever she liked.

I hope you find those people, moments that inspire you to feel and do whatever you like. In the words of Mary Oliver "let the soft animal of your body love what it loves".

Innisfree · 2020-08-25T22:31:07+00:00

I was also surprised. So far just news of a casting call for what can be vaguely construed as a lesbian couple. But the Internet may be getting ahead of itself. We can only hope :)

Not a bad principle to be annoyed on. I have things I have been sitting on about Carol (also directed by a gay man) - the way the love scene was filmed. Let us just say it felt stiff and cold. Maybe because Cate Blanchett was freezing in the studio and the DP couldn't get over the cliche of gliding the camera's gaze along their naked bodies. :)

Innisfree · 2020-08-25T22:14:50+00:00

Well to counterbalance that, I heard Céline Sciamma is working on another movie now. Some more good news for us :)

Innisfree · 2020-08-22T04:42:40+00:00

Canoes, yes 😂, regular boats are less capricious, I find.

You bring a fantastic point: nobody should marry before going through the crucible of building an IKEA item together. :)

Innisfree · 2020-08-20T21:15:30+00:00

Realised early on. Thanks Brazilian soap operas! Mid '90s, power in the village is switched back on at 6pm and the women gather round the one TV set. We watch and then discuss the drama. They are all going to bits because of Ricardo' s muscles and I'm keeping shtum about Juanita's gorgeous eyes.

Innisfree · 2020-08-17T17:29:52+00:00

For me it's the Chauvet cave paintings in the south of France. I was blown away by Herzog's documentary on them. The footage and the music made me feel like I'm communing with people from 30,000 years ago.

Louise Bourgeois' work I find terrifying but I admire the expressivity with which she exorcises her inner demons.

Innisfree · 2020-08-12T21:10:38+00:00

First thought - microbiome. You could look at it through a microscope, right?

I am fascinated by it - it apparently affects hormone levels, mood, the health of the immune system, even personality (though not clear on the latter). I wish we were able to recognize exactly which type of bacteria was responsible for what, and be able to reproduce the right combinations.

And forests, specifically Canadian (I'm thinking British Columbia) :)

Edit: a word

Innisfree · 2020-08-11T19:26:26+00:00

It is saying that the masterdoc, which is widely spread and supported by proponents of the modern theory of comphet (which is nearly indistinguishable from Rich's wishful thinking), is highly misleading and highly accessible to confused and traumatized girls and women who will likely be more harmed than helped by it.

This is the crux of the issue and good on Strictly for starting the thread. Nobody is advocating political lesbianism here. We're trying to understand how we ended up with the issue and provoke a discussion on how to counter it. At least it seems so to me.

Innisfree · 2020-08-10T15:49:50+00:00

I think it has to do more with women's own actions than with misogyny.

I think this is an interesting grey area to explore. Provided we are talking about progressive circles in the west, I often wonder how educated women, who have been exposed to any form of feminism fail to question their role in perpetuating such disrespect towards the integrity of lesbians. Is it a lack of empathy on their part, is it an overwhelming fixation on pleasing men and appearing hot to them?

While I am committed to the materialist school of feminsim, the historical analysis of oppression, the power dynamics on structural level, I can't help thinking it doesn't address enough the fact that at best, many women feel that partnership with a man makes their life easier, and at worst the benefits of such a partnership outweigh the costs. Oh, and don't get me started on the issue of children. That's a sore one...

Innisfree · 2020-08-09T22:01:58+00:00

You are right, it's really more about women saving their energies on catering to men and being able to focus on themselves for once.

Innisfree · 2020-08-09T21:30:53+00:00

I've had it sneak up on me over time. Mainly because even if I like somebody I try not to let myself feel too much, before getting to know them better. Generally it matters to me to get to know how a woman sees the world, what moves her, what makes her laugh etc. If she responds to the way I see the world, and we can come up with something new, sth as simple as making each other laugh, or inspire each other in our respective work - I am a goner.

Innisfree · 2020-08-09T03:04:27+00:00

If that's considered boring, then one of my three wishes would be for more people to be like this.