GC: Why is there more focus on trans women than trans men?

Genderbender · 2021-07-09T04:14:04+00:00

I prefer this sub for a few reasons. Reddit has downvoting. If you get downvoted too many times reddit does this thing where where you have to wait 10 minutes between post. This means if you post, you have to wait 10 minutes to post again. This can be frustrating when you're debating and can't immediately reply to others. Well anyone can downvote anyone, but it was always GC users downvoting QT posters. The average GC top comments would get 30 upvotes, even if the comment was poorly constructed or even hostile. The average QT top comment, no matter how well constructed, got an average of 7 downvotes. No one admitted to downvoting, and everyone said it was the lurkers. We also had a few users who were outright hostile. They were never banned, or warned. Yet sometimes mods went too far with the bans, mostly for QT users but sometimes GC users as well. On the upside, that sub was more active, there were more QT users and more broader and interesting discussions.

This site is full of right wing anti-Semitic rhetoric. However, this site doesn't have downvoting, and there are rules all moderators have to follow. Mods cannot remove user comments that are in good faith and on topic, unless the fact that the sub removes opposing opinions is stated in the sidebar. One person cannot moderate more than 40 subs, and creating another account to bypass this is not allowed. We even have moderation logs and user input into moderation Also, we don't have many QT posters, and it seems like I'm the most active QT poster on this site. But we also lost our most aggressive GC posters, and the tone of this sub is much friendlier. One GC person on here called me names and a mod told him to stick to discussing other people's arguments and avoid personal attacks. That would have never happened on the old sub.

Genderbender · 2021-07-13T16:41:42+00:00

It's not bigotry. In dating, you can be as discriminatory as you want. We cannot help who we are attracted to. I would never date a Trump supporter, for instance.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T04:19:18+00:00

I will in the morning.

Genderbender · 2021-04-25T02:20:05+00:00

I am a natal female, and honestly I see no point for sexsegregated spaces. For instance in a bathroom, there are already stalls, so why should it matter who is in the next stall if they are not harassing you? I live in the US and stalls have huge gaps on the bottom and top of the walls which I hate, so there is little privacy anyway regardless who else is in the restroom. As for locker rooms, you are changing in front of random strangers to begin with. Why should it matter who that stranger is? I think locker rooms should also have stalls because there are people who are uncomfortable changing in front of others regardless of the sex of everyone in the facility. This would solve a lot of issues.

Also, we consider trans women a group of women, not a group of men.

Genderbender · 2021-06-07T17:23:12+00:00

Anyone who has a female gender identity.

Genderbender · 2021-05-16T02:12:19+00:00

Many issues that affect cis women affect trans women as well. All feminists, even feminists who are trans women, are fighting for women's rights. This means we are fighting for equal pay, to be seen as competent equals, being allowed to enter traditionally male professions like garbage collecting or mechanics, ending sexual harassment, prosecuting rape, ending sex-shaming. These are things that affect passing trans women as well. There are some things that don't affect trans women, like pregnancy and periods, but a lot of feminists are fighting for OTC birth control and to end pregnancy discrimination. Hell, many feminists also fight race, disability, LGB and class issues. I am a feminist. I support Black Lives Matter and fairer criminal justice, disabled children not being segregated in schools, more LGBT representation, universal healthcare, etc.

Also, Title IX prohibits sex discrimination in education programs and activities that receive federal financial assistance. Title IX does not mandate, nor prohibit sex-segregated spaces. Some key issue areas in which recipients have Title IX obligations are: recruitment, admissions, and counseling; financial assistance; athletics; sex-based harassment, which encompasses sexual assault and other forms of sexual violence; treatment of pregnant and parenting students; discipline; single-sex education; and employment.

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

Title IX does not just apply to cis women. It applies to men (cis and trans) and even trans women.

Title IX and Sex Discrimination - US Department of Education

Title IX Frequently Asked Questions - National Collegiate Athletic Association

Genderbender · 2021-04-16T17:03:37+00:00

1) Why are you GC or QT?

I'm QT because I believe trans men are men, trans women are women and trans enbys are enbys. I am against sex segregated spaces except in sports. Bathrooms have stalls, though I think stalls shouldn't have gaps. I don't care who’s in the next stall or who I wash my hands with unless they're harassing me. I think locker rooms should also have stalls. That solves the problem for people who don't want to change in front of others. Though I think even now people should have the right to use the locker rooms of their choice. If someone is harassing you, the problem is their behavior, not the presence of the gender.

I dislike how GCs talk about trans men. The only time they (pretend to) stick up for trans men is when trans women talk over them. Otherwise they call trans men narcissists, handmaidens and insult them. A handmaiden is a cis woman/trans man who disagrees with them. It's supposed to mean you're a traitor to woman and a servant. Now just because I support the trans community as a woman doesn't mean I'm a servant and OK with sexism. They insulted Chase Strangio for not agreeing with their beliefs. One user wrote on Ovarit she is appalled there was never a class action lawsuit against doctors who perform FTM SRS, because trans men are lied to what the results will look like. It's like they expect every person AFAB to be on their side. The only forum specifically for trans men I know of is r/FTM. I searched the sub via Google. I only found 2 threads complaining trans women talk over trans men. There are 20+ threads complaining about "TERFs"/gender critical. I don't know the exact number as there are too many to count. Most trans men don't want your activism. You can stop pointing out each time trans women talk over trans men, or stop pretending to advocate for them.

Now, the term narcissist is itself overused by the general public. Actual narcissists are very charming, and they use that charm to victimize others. They have a grandiose sense of self-importance and are preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. They have a need for excessive admiration and believe they are special and important. Someone who just has an awful and selfish personality is not a narcissist. Most trans people aren't narcissists. But this is another topic.

I disagree with their views on porn. I think there are valid criticisms of mainstream porn and the porn industry, but they criticize any and all forms of porn and are critical of sexual entertainment. On the old GC sub, there was a thread criticizing J.Lo for doing a strip tease at the super bowl. They said rich, powerful women who do this are objectifying themselves and are victimizers, unlike the vast majority of strippers who are victims First of all, not all strippers/porn stars are victims. Maybe some are, and certainly those who are forced into it. For too long, women who were openly sexual/promiscuous have been called whores, sluts, told they don't respect themselves, that they didn't have a daddy to tell them they're beautiful and they don't need male attention. Men who are openly sexual/promiscuous do not experience the same value judgements. I am a feminist and believe feminism is about ending sex shaming and the idea of "respecting yourself" in regards to showing off your body/sexuality. J.Lo is a celebrity and you can criticize her, but that doesn't make your criticism feminist. Of course this does not bean men get to objectify women. Objectification is when men treat women like mere sex objects regardless of the circumstances. It does not mean any porn video you don't like.

Finally, I said this already, which gender is sharing my spaces is not a concern for me. I searched o/activism (a circle where they share petitions, fundraisers, letters and emails to politicians, encourage people to write to politicians, etc.). Most of their campaigns are about sex-segregated spaces, sports and medical transitions of minors. I rarely see them advocating on issues that affect women/people AFAB like OTC birth control, equal pay or women not being allowed to enter certain professions like garbage collecting or mechanics. Legally they can, but in the real world they are rejected. There are other issues they can advocate, like police brutality and disabled children being segregated in school. As someone who was in special ed in full time until high school (just for a mild learning disability), I was far more discriminated in my life for being disabled than for being a woman and a Jew combined. Although sexism is prevalent and widespread, being female wasn't the worst thing for me.

2) Were you ever on the opposite side? (Ex. Went from GC to QT or QT to GC?)

No.

3) How do you define "man" and "woman"?

Those who have a male and female gender identity.

4) Transwoman are...Transmen are...

Transwomen are women. Transmen are men.

5) What are your thoughts on the term "cis", "natal" and "biological"?

OK with me. I refer to myself as a cis woman.

6) Do you believe transmen can play in sports with biological men and vice-versa---can transwomen play in sports with biological women?

I don't think trans women should be allowed to play in women's sports because the average male has a physical advantage over the average female.

7) What is considered misgendering?

Failure to use someone's preferred pronouns. Calling someone a man or woman when they aren't.

8) Gender is...and sex is...

Gender is your identity in relation to sex, and includes how you identify and your pronouns. Sex is biological, and many of us have gender identities outside our biological sex. Some sex characteristics can be changed. Some can not.

9) Do you know people in real life that are QT if you're GC or that are GC if you're QT? Are they friends or family?

I and my sister are QT but my parents are I think GC even if they don't know the term. My mom thinks trans people are mentally ill and my dad misgenders trans celebrities.

10) How do people normally treat you based in your views?

We rarely discuss them.

11) Are transmedicalist GC, QT, or neither?

QT

12) What is one thing you wish the other side knew about your position?

We accept GNC people. Many of us are against gender roles, like the idea that men can't wear dresses and skirts and women can't be mechanics. We recognize people can have dysphoria and it has nothing to do with gender roles. Also, not all trans people and their supporters are white, middle class and AMAB. Many trans people aren't white. Many are disabled. Many live in 3rd world countries.

1) What is your sexual orientation?

Straight.

2) Are you a transman/transwoman or a biological man/woman?

I am a cis woman.

3) What region are you from?(North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa)

NYC.

Genderbender · 2021-06-15T16:32:00+00:00

Leonardo da Vinci was likely gay, though he was celibate in his life. Barbara Gittings from the Stonewall riots was a cis lesbian and so was Sally Ride, America's first female astronaut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gay,_lesbian_or_bisexual_people

https://www.advocate.com/world/2016/7/08/20-lgbt-people-who-changed-world#media-gallery-media-11

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T16:09:46+00:00

I don't think hormones caused or contributed to him being aggressive.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T23:10:59+00:00

It’s totally different and exactly why I maintain that the average adult is not educated enough about their own biology or pharmacy to mess around with it.

This is why T requires a prescription. Those on the Ovarit thread are arguing trans men shouldn't get T at all.

Ssri discontinuation is a serious issue with measurable physical effects as well as psychological distress. It’s nothing like testosterone

But they take T to stay mentally healthy just like I take SSRIs to stay mentally healthy.

Genderbender · 2020-10-28T04:19:36+00:00

In what ways do GC people make it impossible for you to access care?

Genderbender · 2021-06-16T16:29:40+00:00

Not all are from the west. If you read through the list you will find people before the 20th century and who aren't from the west. I even provided an example of Emperor Ai of Han, Or do you think homosexuality is a modern, western invention like you do with transgenderism?

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T00:43:43+00:00

Yes it produces serotonin.

Genderbender · 2021-04-26T02:42:51+00:00

Not all women are abusive to males. Not all males are abusive to women.

Keep in mind this is also a trans men fight. Trans men are fighting for access to male facilities as much as trans women are fighting for access to female facilities.

Genderbender · 2021-04-25T17:01:45+00:00

If both males and females can use the same stalls then a certain number of males will plant cameras in those stalls.

In that case you prosecute men who do that.

Reporting someone after they've already committed a sex crime doesn't prevent the crime from happening. Males commit virtually all sex crimes. Segregating toilets and changing rooms based on sex prevents most sex crimes from happening in the first place.

Look, we can't prevent everything, The better option would be to actively prosecute sex crimes. Yes, we need to work on improving that but that's an issue of it's own merits.

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T19:19:48+00:00

Agender is part of the nom-binary spectrum. So that means you can't call yourself male or female anymore.

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T00:07:19+00:00

I am disabled and a cis female. Well yes, I should have added "due to my gender" at the end.

Genderbender · 2021-06-30T23:37:50+00:00

People who aren't trans are cis.

Genderbender · 2021-06-30T22:48:45+00:00

Here are some examples of cis privilege:

I can use public restrooms that match my gender without fear of verbal abuse, physical intimidation, or arrest
I have the ability to walk through the world and generally blend-in, not being constantly stared or gawked at, whispered about, pointed at, or laughed at because of my gender expression.
Strangers call me by the name I provide, and don’t ask what my “real name” [birth name] is and then assume that they have a right to call me by that name.
I can reasonably assume that my ability to acquire a job, rent an apartment, or secure a loan will not be denied on the basis of my gender identity/expression.
I have the ability to flirt, engage in courtship, or form a relationship and not fear that my biological status may be cause for rejection or attack, nor will it cause my partner to question their sexual orientation.
If I end up in the emergency room, I do not have to worry that one gender will keep me from receiving appropriate treatment, or that all of my medical issues will be seen as a result of my gender.
My identity is not considered a mental pathology (“gender identity disorder” in the DSM IV) by the psychological and medical establishments.
People don't speculate that my gender identity is a result of abuse or trauma.
I have the ability to not worry about being placed in a sex-segregated detention center, holding facility, jail or prison that is incongruent with my identity.
I can easily find role models and mentors to emulate who share my identity.
Hollywood accurately depicts people of my gender in films and television, and does not solely make my identity the focus of a dramatic storyline, or the punchline for a joke.
I will not be harassed by the police or denied services at a bank or other institution because my legal sex does not match my gender presentation.

Genderbender · 2021-06-15T20:17:37+00:00

Antinous - Bithynian Greek youth and a favourite beloved of the Roman emperor Hadrian

Pietro Aretino - Italian author, playwright, poet, satirist and blackmailer, who wielded influence on contemporary art and politics

Louise Abbéma - French painter, sculptor, and designer of the Belle Époque

Emperor Ai of Han

Lord Byron - English poet and politician

Jacopo Bonfadio - Italian humanist and historian

Rosa Bonheur - French painted and sculptor

Francesco Calcagno - Franciscan friar famously executed for blasphemy and sodomy by the Venetian Inquisition

Mervyn Tuchet, 2nd Earl of Castlehaven - English nobleman convicted of rape and sodomy and subsequently executed

Petru Cercel - Voivode (Prince) of Wallachia from 1583 to 1585, son to ruler Pătrașcu cel Bun

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T01:27:28+00:00

So? Why do you constantly want us to answer for what people say on ovarit? You’ve been told we aren’t a hive mind monolith but still act as if we are.

GCs say they are not a hive mind but when there is a post for example like this where a trans man is stalking someone most of them jump in to say trans men should not have access to T. Granted, I know not all GCs are hivemind. Here is a comment from the thread:

This is obviously terrible but am I the only one confused as to why everyone is blaming testosterone for violent behaviour? Violence in TIFs if hardly common it is feels like baseless speculation to say HRT makes women violent. It also removes responsibility from violent men by suggesting that they have no choice but to be violent because its "in their nature" or because all men are somehow born violent. Violence is always a choice regardless of hormones.

That's exactly what I am thinking. Granted, the hive mind thing is probably just an Ovarit thing. s/GenderCritical called out Ovarit users when they wanted to ban all forms of plastic surgery. Some GCs say they don't like the tone on Ovarit. I do think Ovarit is mostly a hive mind, based on the threads I read there.

They take testosterone to induce desired cosmetic effects claiming the cosmetic effects ease their mental distress. It’s absolutely nothing like inhibiting the reputable of serotonin.

But we are all taking these medications for one very basic reason: to be mentally healthy.

Prescriptions handed out to every Jane, sally and Harriet are so far removed from a comprehension of what the prescription is doing to their body they might as well be on different planets.

This is why doctors should explain medications to their patients. Patients are responsible for understanding their condition, what the meds do and deciding if this is working for them.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T20:43:12+00:00

All drugs have side effects. It's up to the person taking them to read the labels, use the drugs responsibly and inform their doctor of whatever side effects. I take a medication with a black box warning. Should I stop taking it just because some people abuse it? Taking prescribed doses of T to transition isn't abuse.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T15:45:12+00:00

What about them? What does female violence have to do with anything?

This is male violence. Anyway, the reason they posted about him is because he's trans. If he was a cis man or a cis woman, this would not have been posted.

Do you think anyone is saying that testosterone is the causative factor in crime?

A few users are saying T made him violent, which I think is ridiculous. 1st, women already have some testosterone. 2. By their logic, men with low testosterone or trans women taking estrogen and testosterone blockers are naturally less violent. But they insist trans women have the same rate of crime as cis men. I wonder why since he has low testosterone. Maybe we should have a high testosterone defense for AFABs, like we have an insanity defense?

No, grown adults shouldn’t get access to any drugs they want just because they want them. The average person is not educated or intelligent enough to responsibly fuck with their endocrine system.

T already requires a prescription. I understand many GCs are against physically transitioning minors. But why shouldn't adults get to decide if they want to transition or not?

Pffft sure it’s not substance abuse because she says she’s a dude.

Substance abuse, according to Google, is overindulgence in or dependence on an addictive substance, especially alcohol or drugs.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T21:56:32+00:00

There is a difference between a disability and a condition. I was classed as having a "specific learning disability" in school, yet most of my struggles were not due to my LD, but due to the school system discriminating against me. I was in a self-contained class FULL TIME until high school, even though my behavior wasn't disruptive. Then in high school, when I was in general ed, I had no say in my IEP. The IEP meeting at the end of sophomore was full of a bunch of adults talking about me without involving me in the conversation. They decided next year they will work on "a better understanding of social cues" without asking me if that's what I wanted to work on. Would people like it if a bunch of professionals talked about them without involving them in the conversation. I didn't write my IEP goals, they did.

I fully agree with the social model, as do many other disabled people. Disability is a result of interaction with society. For instance, if you're in a wheelchair, there will be many places not accessible to you. If you're autistic, you don't interact the way the neuro-majority interact. That's what disability is. Disability doesn't mean not healthy and it doesn't necessarily mean people will become healthy if treated better. Though the way society treats disabled people is abysmal.

For instance, a lot of disabled people have medical conditions and use healthcare but don't have access to it. I used to have a painful and rather embarrassing condition that barred me from working and not many doctors treat. The only doctors that treated it were not in our network, and I was incredibly lucky my parents paid for the treatment so I could work. If we had universal health care, I could have just made an appointment without worrying about payments. And don't even get me started on insulin prices. Many states have work requirements for Medicaid, so that means people have to work to get treatment for a condition that makes them unable to work. A paradox!

I am fortunate enough to be able to work. Yet some people just can't work. SSI pays $771 per month for an zaindividual, and that doesn't even cover rent. Most non-working people who I know living on their own had their parents pay for their home. One of my disabed friends was stuck with abusive parents because she couldn't afford to move out.

The healthcare thing is specific to the US as every other developed country has universal health care. Though other countries also segregate disabled children in schools. In France kids often don't get help for ADHD. China stigmatizes autism. Granted these things happen in the US as well.

I would not cure my LD as the real problem for me was the way society treated me and not my LD itself. I fully support the social model.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T14:42:40+00:00

I thought it was great and a well balanced report.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T13:23:33+00:00

I believe sexuality is based on gender presentation, not gender identity. Some trans men are gay, but there was a post on r/FTM to pre-transition gay men asking who they date, because they know gay men will not be attracted to them pre-transition. Likewise, I will not date a female-presenting trans women, but I would date a passing trans man, just like I would date a cis man but not a cis woman, because I'm straight.

Genderbender · 2021-05-25T03:19:35+00:00

On this thread you've bragged about the role you've played in getting women who disagree with you

I did participate in r/gendercynical, but I merely pointed out AFAB people (including myself) were also instrumental in getting GC subs banned. By the way, Reddit is a private-owned site and can make their own rules. Free speech merely refers to the government.

Genderbender · 2021-05-19T02:13:59+00:00

Women do not present a threat to men, or other women for that matter.

So women never physically harm other women? Gotcha!

Female trans people occupy the same role as female people in general trying to play nice with the patriarchy to gain male respect or establish how "not like other girls" they are.

Trans men can't be "not like the other girls" because they are not girls to begin with. They're boys/men.

Genderbender · 2021-05-18T17:14:30+00:00

But trans men are a part of trans rights activism as much as trans women.

Genderbender · 2021-04-25T17:11:36+00:00

Most rapes don't happen in public stalls and locker rooms. If you want to prevent rape, ban late night house parties. Then criminals have the least chances of raping people.

Genderbender · 2021-04-25T17:08:43+00:00

What difference does it make if the strangers are male or female? You still don't know them, their intentions, etc.

Genderbender · 2021-04-25T04:11:20+00:00

Well, good for you for not finding sex-seggregated spaces necessary, but why do you get to decide for other women what we should get comfortable with?

OK, if you're changing in front of a bunch of random strangers, why does the sex of those strangers matter? You still don't know them and their intentions. Anyway, stalls without gaps with those turn locks that say "vacant" in green and "occupied" in red are the answer. I don't see what difference does it make whose in the next stall if no one can see you anyway.

According to this study males who identifies as trans retain male pattern of crimminality, though. It's worth pointing out the authors only evaluated males who undergone full "SRS", i.e. likely the ones who are more commited to "pass" as women.

If someone is harassing you in the bathroom, their behavior is the problem, not their presence. In that case you should report them.

Genderbender · 2021-01-31T06:18:11+00:00

Trans men are not female and that is the point. There is a thread on Reddit titled Trans men of reddit, what problems do you deal with that people of other identities don't know or think about?. Here is a quote from a comment:

One final thing I'd like to say has to do with what I call benevolent transphobia, which is when people believe that we are men, sort of, but more like men-lite or "good" men who have been socialized as women, which lends us all of our positive characteristics that they value, and which off-set our negative man qualities. An example of this is when people say that trans men are better than cis men because we understand what it's like to be women - no, honestly, I do not. I only know what it's like to be dysphoric in a woman's body.

Yes there are some experiences exclusive to people AFAB, like periods. But when trans men experience periods, they experience it as trans men and may be different from what cis women experience. For example in this article, a trans man wrote:

A period in and of itself can be uncomfortable for any individual, and being transgender adds another emotional layer to that.

The reason I brought up trans women is because if trans women started replying about not being allowed to show their breasts and trans men called them out, GC would make a post about how trans women are evil, narcissistic, AGP, etc. Yet when cis women do the same thing they get upset when trans men call it out.

This is why I can't stand when GC complains trans women talk over trans men. I mean, if one group is talking over the other it should be pointed out, but when trans men point out GC talking over them, GCs get upset or don't use the criticism to change their ways. Like, don't criticize people for something you do yourself.

I edited my post to finish the sentence that somehow wasn't typed. Thank you for pointing it out.

Genderbender · 2021-09-09T23:11:35+00:00

Trans men who physically transition and pass are not female.

Genderbender · 2021-07-03T17:14:11+00:00

But a lot of women who slut themselves up, or do the childlike girlish lolita thing seem to getting off on it and it's vain and jealous and WEIRD.

If women are sluts, than men are sluts for doing the same thing.

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T01:02:51+00:00

We call them cis.

Genderbender · 2021-06-30T06:28:51+00:00

If women with vaginas are allowed to be nude in the area, then I don't have a problem with allowing women with penises, or anyone else for that matter, to do the same thing. If nudity in general was not allowed in the area, then the trans woman was exposing herself and it would be no different than exposing yourself on the street. In that case, she definitely should be charged.

Genderbender · 2021-06-17T04:15:08+00:00

I am against sex-segregated spaces in general. That said, no one should be naked around a bunch of strangers to begin with just to change. But since that's the case, I don't think it matters who you're naked around, you are still naked around a bunch of strangers.

Genderbender · 2021-06-10T18:16:25+00:00

Perhaps yes. Though there aren't many users commenting a contrary opinion.

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T16:08:02+00:00

Many trans men take testosterone without serious health problems.

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T00:47:21+00:00

Substance abuse is the abuse if a substance. Like using excess testosterone for cosmetic effects.

Taking prescribed doses of T for the purpose of transitioning is not "substance abuse".

Adults shouldn’t decide because adults are stupid, selfish, and don’t know shit about their own endocrine systems.

Again, T requires a prescription. Many trans men take T without experiencing significant health problems and are the majority are happy with the results. A few people detransition, which is why adults should think and decide if they really want this or not.

Look at the stats. We dont claim transwomen retain male criminality, we know it from statistics.

But if they are doing HRT they would have low testosterone. Which proves testosterone did not cause this man's violence.

You are as usual taking a comment and instead of accepting it’s talked about as a possible contributing factor, you’re acting like everyone on ovarit insists a drop of testosterone will turn any female into a raging monster.

But I think it's silly they decided T was a contributing factor. There are cis women who commit violent acts, as well as cis men. Why did this case stand out?

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T22:44:06+00:00

You are conflating two totally separate issues: 1) drugs that people abuse because they have mood-altering & other effects they like & which cause them to experience some kind of high, & are psychologically & physically addictive; and 2) drugs that have unwanted "side effects."

Yes, all drugs have "side effects." But not all drugs are addictive or subject to abuse.

Sure, but trans men taking T to physically transition is not abusing T.

Yes, that's true. But women normally have testosterone levels that are a teeny-tiny fraction of the male levels that trans-identified females try to reach & mimic by taking drugs. Moreover, endogenous T produced naturally by a girl or woman's ovaries & adrenals is not at all the same as the exogenous, artificial T mass-produced in factories by Big Pharma.

Sure, but this is what trans men take to pass and to be mentally healthy and not be dysphoric. It's no different than me taking my anti-depressants, ADHD and blood pressure meds.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T04:49:57+00:00

What about women who don't have that much testosterone and are violent? What about trans women who take testosterone blockers? They are essentially arguing access to T shouldn't be this easy. Shouldn't grown adults get to decide what to do with their bodies?

He isn't "abusing" testosterone. He's taking it for transition. Though his crimes are inexcusable.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T21:50:45+00:00

I'm not saying the story is made up. I'm saying GC sites like womenarehuman.com have no business pretending to advocate for trans men. Trans men have said over and over again they do not want gender critical activism.

Take a look at r/FTM. There are 20+ threads complaining about "TERFs". There are also many articles on other sites written by trans men complaining about "TERFs" and mind you GCs consider TERF a slur. So that means they don't want your activism. In contrast I found only ONE thread on r/FTM complaining about trans women, yet GCs keep saying trans women talk over trans men. This is obviously a GC concern more than trans men's concern.

To be an ally to a group, you have to listen to actual members of that group, not impose your own ideas. Imagine a white self-proclaimed ally saying "well, that interaction wasn't really racist" when multiple POC say otherwise? Besides the blatant misgendering, trans men are a marginalized community and its rude and gross to speak over people who made it clear they don't want you to speak for them.

Trans men are fighting for better healthcare. Just yesterday there was a thread on r/FTM titled I hate when I feel like there’s something wrong with my reproductive stuff and I try to see what the problem is and how to fix it but everything is labeled as “WOMEN” “GIRL” and “FEMALE.”. I know this is contradictory to what GCs want, as they call for eliminating the terms women and girls for health issues traditionally considered "female" But GCs and trans men have opposite agendas, which is why GCs should never speak for trans men and trans men should never speak for GC. GCs do their activism. Trans men and their allies do their activism.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T22:31:10+00:00

So, do you think Jane and Helen are still heterosexual and homosexual respectively after their partners' coming out?

Yes.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T14:42:13+00:00

That's not bisexuality. I'm straight. I personally know a trans woman who I was attracted to pre transition, even when she came out as trans. When she starting transitioning, even though she didn't pass as a cis woman, she appeared to feminized for me to be attracted to her. I'm not attracted to women because I'm straight. I am attracted to passing trans men like Buck Angel.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T18:15:57+00:00

Based on what? If women actually behaved like that we'd be rid of all those men's rights groups ages ago.

Trans people did not "rid" the gender critical groups. We just got them banned from reddit. They created Ovarit, and found new homes on spinster.xyz and Saidit. Same for any other hate groups, they will create their own platforms.

Unfortunately only men plan & make targeted attacks on subreddits in large enough groups to get a sub banned.

So you know the sex of all those anonymous internet users?

FYI, sex is only "assigned" when it's ambiguous i.e. never in the cases of transgender people. The terms for the sexes are 'male' & 'female'. You don't ever say "reassigned female after transition", or something equally ridiculous, do you? You don't hesitate to describe an adult human male simply as 'female', if he self-identifies that way.

When you're assigned or reassigned a sex, you have no control over that. When you transition, you have control. No one told you you had dysphoria and to transition. You came to that conclusion yourself.

Genderbender · 2021-05-17T05:37:55+00:00

I'd prefer you leave us non-English speakers alone. You keep saying you care about all social issues, not only feminism. If that is the case, then why do you think it's reasonable to expect we modify our own languages just because some native English speakers find unnecssary to distinguish between the sexes? Sorry, but this sound quite colonialist to me.

I'm a non-English speaker myself. My parents are from another country and I speak another language. Я сетим согласна.

This of course will require changes in English as well as other languages. I find it offensive you think all non-English speakers should think the same.

Besides, what would be the purpose of this change? How would this help to eliminate sex inequalities? Using only gender neutral language means invisibilizing women and women's issues because men are viewed as the default. You'd be only making more difficult to talk about sexism and misogyny.

We don't use pronouns based on race or disability, so why use gendered pronouns.

Genderbender · 2021-04-26T02:38:07+00:00

If both males and females can use the same stalls then a certain number of males will plant cameras in those stalls.

Have you used single stall bathrooms before? If yes, I'm sure you're fine.

Reporting someone after they've already committed a sex crime doesn't prevent the crime from happening.

It does prevent further crimes from happening if action is taken. Criminals who want to break the law will do it regardless of which bathrooms they're allowed. The real problem is our abysmal treatment of sex crimes, not believing victims, rape kit backlogs, etc.

Genderbender · 2021-04-26T01:39:51+00:00

And that 85% of violent crimes are done by males, and of them 96-97% violent crimes against females are done by males? That 99+% of all rapists are males and almost 100% of all rapes against women are done by males?

This is wrong.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/wo.pdf

While if stranger is female - most likely you have similar strenght, similar running speed, and that most likely that female have no vile intent at all?

In freshman year of high school I was groped by cis girls in the locker room. They were suspended, but they still were allowed to return to the locker room. No one ever forced them to change in the boys locker room and I had to deal with the fact they could harass me again, Don't assume that females most likely don't have vile intentions at all. That is simply not true.

Genderbender · 2021-04-26T01:32:14+00:00

The fact is, most communal change rooms are open-plan - and due to space constraints, that's how they most likely will always stay. Which means you're arguing that all families who go to a swimming pool or water park together should have to change in & out of their bathing suits with one another regardless of their different ages & sex. In other words, MA moms, teenage daughters & senior citizen grannies should have to be naked in front of MA dads, adolescent & teen boys, & elderly grandpas - and vice versa. As though in families, bodily privacy & sex boundaries should not be a thing.

Then maybe we should have separate facilities based on age as well. Old women go here, young women go here. MA women go here.

Leaving aside female people entirely, as you clearly don't care about the vast majority of girls & women, the policy you advocate would be particularly hard on a segment of the sex you DO care about, namely pubescent & teen boys. Much to their embarrassment, males of that age get spontaneous erections and often find their dicks get stiff & stand up visibly at the slightest stimuli - including seeing their mums & grannies & sisters in their knickers, or sometimes just being in close physical proximity to their female relatives when fully dressed. The young males in these situations might be the sweetest, kindest boys in the world, with all the best intentions - but their bodies are still gonna do what the bodies of boys that age tend to do. Perhaps if you'd raised some boys you'd know that.

You're saying "boys will just be boys" and are destined to harass women no matter what.

And where does your policy leave all the boys & men who feel bashful about taking a crap with their female work colleagues & classmates in the room? And all the boys & men who like to nip into the loo during the day for a stress-relieving wank? Don't you think the policy you advocate would be a discomfiting imposition on them, their privacy, bodily freedoms & peace of mind too?

I've used the men's restroom many times, and most men didn't care.

Genderbender · 2021-07-11T05:07:10+00:00

Yes I was in college and he attended my school.

Genderbender · 2021-07-10T04:36:41+00:00

I think sexuality is more nuanced than simply being attracted to birth sex. I am attracted to cis men and passing trans men. I don't consider myself bisexual.

I think trans people should disclose for their own safety, and I think disclosure is important for long-term relationships. But I wouldn't go as far as saying it is rape.

Genderbender · 2021-07-03T17:11:43+00:00

They claim trans women are doing harm to female spaces, not trans men. They claim trans men are trying to escape misogyny or are lesbians in denial, or are fujoshis with a gay fetish, in the case of gay men.

Genderbender · 2021-07-02T16:47:27+00:00

Anyone who identifies with their birth sex is cis.

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T21:12:09+00:00

Your privacy isn't violated. Restrooms have stalls.
No one is saying women aren't harassed.
Trans people aren't lying about their name. People can change their names.
Women, and men are fired for transphobic comments, not for stating biology is real.
No one is forced to sleep with anyone. If you aren't attracted to trans people, that's OK.
Yes but something called discrimination exists.
No, you consider transgenderism a mental illness.
Taking hormones to appear another sex or removing breasts is not the same as chopping off an arm. Is getting a nose job a mental illness? Cis men live without large breasts so they are not essential, and people have beards so creating a beard is also OK. I am mentally ill myself and do agree there is a stigma around mental health. But wanting to physically transition doesn't necessarily equal a mental health issue.
No one should accept being assaulted by anyone, and violent offenders need more monitoring.
Trans and NB people are still underrepresented in the media.
See above.
Where did I say I have the police called on me?

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T19:17:37+00:00

I fully agree with you. This sub is friendlier, and Saidit has strict rules about moderation.

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T03:24:10+00:00

Deaf and HOH people often use the term hearing people to refer to non-deaf/HOH people.

Yes we disabled people may use the term able-bodied and abled.

We do use the term non-Jews, because most non-Jews don't know the meaning of the terms goy/goyim. Goyim means nations in Hebrew, but Jews use the term in their communities to refer to non-Jews.

Cis merely means you aren't trans. Transgenderism is not a mental illness. Many trans people physically transition and most are satisfied with the results. Some regret it. I am actually mentally ill. I have bipolar, OCD and ADHD.

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T03:03:41+00:00

Many groups have names for "outsiders". The deaf call hearing people hearing people. We call non-disabled people able-bodied. Jews call non-Jews goy/goyim.

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T02:58:31+00:00

Neulisa Luciano Ruiz was killed after using the women's restroom. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/transgender-woman-killed-puerto-rico-after-using-women-s-bathroom-n1142661

Lauren Jackson suffered a broken jaw and fractured skull after being beaten by a man for using the women's bathroom https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/01/idaho-man-found-guilty-of-hate-crime-after-beating-transgender-woman-over-bathroom-use-on-oregon-coast.html

Jazmina Saavedra, who's running for US Congress in California's 44th District, filmed herself yelling at a transgender woman for using the bathroom at Denny's

https://www.businessinsider.com/dennys-transgender-confrontation-in-viral-video-2018-5

Yes, but people who significantly deviate from gender norms are more likely to experience discrimination for being GNC.
Um, no. Trans women aren't males, and they may have legally changed their names. Do you pressure cis women to tell you what their maiden name is?
We are saying your are privileged for being cis, not for being female. Cis men also have cis privilege. Trans women are not automatically believed about whatever they say.
I've dated a post op transman in college.
Health care workers should respect a conscious patient's pronouns and provide gender affirming care.
I myself have got help for a few medical conditions as a result of self-diagnosis. But transgenderism is not a medical condition.
This is why we isolate actual rapists.
It's race and gender intersecting.

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T01:38:49+00:00

Then eliminate sections.

Genderbender · 2021-07-01T01:38:16+00:00

There have been cases where trans women were beaten for using women's bathrooms. I'm female and I don't use restrooms or locker rooms based on my sex.
This is something trans (and gender non-conforming) people experience more often.
If someone tells you "X is my name" and you otherwise have no reason to trust them, then you shouldn't question them because their name doesn't match their gender presentation, unless you have an actual reason for asking someone their birth name.
Nobody is saying women aren't discriminated for being female. People have a variety of marginalized identities and each identity has a unique experience. I'm disabled and I went through things able-bodied people will never go through.
I am a straight woman. I am attracted to men, which includes cis men and passing trans men. I am not attracted to cis women and passing trans women. I just don't think if I dated a passing trans man, it is a lesbian relationship. We wouldn't go through the same things lesbian couples go through.
I think ER staff should respect people's pronouns if the patient specifies it, but yes people should be treated in accordance to their assigned sex at birth. Plus, sometimes doctors may just dismiss the condition as a result of taking hormones instead of taking the time to see what the real issue is.
I don't have an issue with self-diagnosis. What I do think is we need to do more to ensure people requesting surgeries will not regret it later. Most people do not regret it, but some do. I have no issues with exploratory therapy to help people explore their gender identity and figure out if they really are trans or not.
People speculate being gay is a result of abuse or trauma. Is that OK?
Women can rape other women too. In any case, a rapist should be highly guarded and supervised, just like any other dangerous inmate.
Growing up I had women role models, Miley Cyrus, Miranda Cosgrove, Demi Lovato, Selena Gomez, Ashley Tisdale, etc. The thing is all of these role models were able-bodied. I'm disabled and we never had an openly disabled role model.
There are issues with how women are depicted. Many movies fail the Bechdel test. Though cis women are better represented than trans people (both women and men).
This specific form of police abuse only happens to trans people. Trystan Cotten, a black trans man, did an ethnographic study of trans men and found that 96 percent of African American and Latino men want to have surgery, while only 45 percent of white respondents do. That’s because a trans history can exacerbate racial profiling. When they pat you down, if you don’t have a penis it’s going to be obvious (or if you’re a trans woman and you have a penis, that becomes obvious). https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/20/feature/crossing-the-divide-do-men-really-have-it-easier-these-transgender-guys-found-the-truth-was-more-complex/

Genderbender · 2021-06-30T22:46:02+00:00

Why should little kids be taken to naked bathhouses and be exposed to strange vaginas?

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T00:05:48+00:00

I know how these drugs work and yes they were prescribed in consultation with a doctor by doing actual tests and these drugs have helped me immensely. Without my ADHD meds I would have no job because I wouldn't be able to concentrate at all and without the SSRIs I would be laying in bed all day.

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T02:27:22+00:00

You can talk about trans people, but that site is using an example of a specific person who most likely does not want his case to be used as an example by transphobes, and has the same opinion on "TERFs" as r/gendercynical. At the very least they could have been respectful by using he and Mr.

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T02:06:50+00:00

Misgendering is using terms and pronouns that person said they do not prefer. Was it so hard for them to type he, him, his, and Mr.?

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T19:19:46+00:00

The problem is that doctors failed to ask for his birth sex, not him presenting as a man. Also, I don't trust sources that purposefully misgender trans people. Many trans people are fighting for better health care and we need to join the fight by listening to trans men.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T17:56:16+00:00

You say this a lot. Like, you always volunteer this information, unprompted. The lady doth protest too much methinks.

This is my way of explaining gender identity and dysphoria and it's true.

I don't know anyone who would insist that if they had to live as the opposite sex they'd have crippling dysphoria & make any & every attempt to change their sex.

Well now you know someone who does. Also, many trans people themselves say they have crippling dysphoria.

You are not trans, like most of us here, so it's not like you have a unique insight.

A lot of us on this sub are also not trans.

I personally can safely say, if I woke up tomorrow & I was female I'd hate it, but I'd just deal with it. I wouldn't self-identify as a man & use a masculine name & pronouns. I wouldn't take hormones that would make me go bald & grow a beard nor would I amputate my breasts.

That's you. Also, cis men with gynecomastia have surgery to remove their large breasts. Do you call that ?amputation

The penis, the height & not having to be female, are the only things worthwhile about being male anyway, but transition can't give you any of those things.

The only thing you can't change via transition is your height. Trans men can have a penis via SRS.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T16:01:21+00:00

I am certain. If I was born male, I would transition via hormones and surgery, because being male would cause me dysphoria. Yes, gender identity is somewhat of a spiritual essence, and I am in essence, a female. I'm lucky I was born female, so I don't need to transition.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T14:26:27+00:00

Gender identity is the personal conception of oneself as male, female, both or neither. So it's basically how you perceive yourself? I see myself as female, and would see myself as female regardless of my birth sex.

Genderbender · 2021-05-27T16:25:02+00:00

I think sometimes the social model is better though instead of the medical model, especially in education and other non-medical settings. For me though I would never cure my learning disability, though I would cure other things I have. What was more disabling was discrimination in the school.

We should not replace the term disability. I and many of us in our community loathe the term special needs and handi-capable. I know the non-disabled community likes the term special needs, but to us, it's stigmatizing and othering. Due to this stigma I felt embarrassed for being disabled during my teenage years. These terms just another euphemism for disability. People are afraid of using words like disability, disabled, autistic, etc. so they invent euphemisms like special needs and handi-capable or even people first language. People first language (for those who don't know) is putting the person before the disability, i.e. saying "person with a disability" instead of "disabled person" saying "person with autism" instead of "autistic person." Some people in our community prefer it and that's OK, but many do not. Yet abled people who are often parents of disabled kids or work with disabled people insist it's the polite term and saying "autistic" is rude, even though actual autistic people don't think so and many feel autism is part of their identity. Some people are even told how to identify themselves, that they should not call themselves disabled or blind or whatever. Many people also want to emphasize someone is a person before their disability. It's almost as if being disabled and being a person is mutually exclusive. I corrected someone online for using the term handi-capable for a character. I simply said most disabled people don't the term and to use disabled instead, and that person thanked me. I wish we would stop being afraid to use the term disability and stop euphemizing it. Parents, teachers and professionals should not be afraid to tell a child they're disabled, or talk about disability with children. It's OK to use the words disability and disabled.

On another note, denying someone medical treatment is ableist. Without my SSRI, I would be lying in bed all day. Yet there are people who will insist you shouldn't take anti-depressants or any medication because it's big pharma. I think the term big pharma should apply to pharmaceutical companies because I have criticisms for them, but not the people who need these medications to function. Some people think the profession of psychiatry should be eliminated, which is ableist, because many people would suffer without psychiatry or access to medical treatment in general.

Genderbender · 2021-05-25T02:11:07+00:00

But it’s been explained to you that for others, privacy is absolutely a sex segregated thing.

Everyone views privacy differently. I personally feel privacy when only fat brunette people can see me change. Are we going to start segregating people by weight now?

Stalls will not help preventing cameras planted by men.

You're right. Prosecution is the only thing that will stop men from implanting cameras.

Stalls can be blocked by stronger male bodies and now the assault is happening in a locked space.

I support cameras in common areas of the bathrooms (except for the stalls). Anyone who assaults anyone, physically, sexually or whatever will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T23:27:18+00:00

GB, everyone who reads your posts gets that you are an authoritarian oligarch

For one, I am not an oligarch as I have no power to control the majority of the government.

who thinks people with different views to your own should not have basic rights to things like free speech,

I believe in free speech in the conventional sense. When most people say free speech, they mean consequences for their speech should not come from the government.

bodily privacy and physical safety.

I support bodily privacy and physical safety. I said I wanted separate stalls for everyone. I just don't believe privacy has anything to do with sex segregation.

People who use wishful thinking, costume changes, cosmetics, hormones, surgeries and bullying of others in an attempt to "transition" from one sex to the other, or out of sex entirely, might have a temporary illusion of control - but it's only an illusion, and usually a short-lived one at that.

There are people who are trans for years and it's not an illusion.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T16:37:42+00:00

I agree with you 100%. Trans men themselves say they don't transition due to misogyny or trauma due to being a woman, but GCs like to force that narrative on them.

Genderbender · 2021-05-17T16:13:54+00:00

Your opinion also isn't shared by vast swathes of the population. Trans people have sued for not being allowed to use the restroom or locker room that matches their gender identity, and won. In my state, it is illegal to harass a person for using a restroom that doesn't match their birth sex, and there are notices put up that violators will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Genderbender · 2021-05-17T02:04:00+00:00

You can quote by putting a ">" before a paragraph. Saidit uses Reddit Formatting.

Debatable, and depends on what the feminist's definition of "rights" for women are. Is it female liberation? Is it separatism? Is it gender abolition? Is it post-genderism? And what are the methods used, and to what end? For example, many 3rd wavers are supportive of the legalization and normalization of sex work. 2nd wavers would say prostitution and pornography are a stronghold of the patriarchy. There is a fundamental disagreement in ideology there, and it is impossible for them both to be right simultaneously. Only one of them is actually fighting for women's rights.

For me, "rights" mean having the same equal opportunities and equal treatment. For instance, women not being fired for being pregnant, equal pay, ending rape and sexual harassment (which happens to men also). I support abolishing gender roles (such as "girl toys" and "boy toys") and gendered language. For instance, cousin is a gender neutral term, but aunt and uncle are not. I would like to use gender neutral terms. Mother and father will exclusively refer to reproductive roles, otherwise you can use the sex-neutral term parent. There will be no more foster mothers and foster fathers, just foster parents, as they were not involved in the conception of the child. You can tell me your parent is in the hospital. I would also eliminate he and she, and replace them with gender neutral pronouns in every language. I do support decriminalizing sex work, as criminalizing sex work only hurts the sex worker. Pimping however should always be a crime.

I support ending sex shaming. Women who are promiscuous or openly sexual are called whores, sluts, told they don't respect themselves, that they didn't have a daddy to tell them they're beautiful and they don't need male attention. Men who are openly promiscuous/sexual do not experience the same value judgements. There was a thread on the old GC sub criticizing J.Lo for doing a strip tease at the super bowl. They said rich, powerful women who do this are objectifying themselves and are victimizers, unlike the vast majority of strippers who are victims. First of all, if you find this objectifying, change the channel and don't strip tease. Second, it's rude to label someone a victim without their consent when no crime has been committed against them. Those women may or may not feel victimized. I have my criticisms of the mainstream porn industry, but it feels like GC is against any and all sexual entertainment by women. If men are seeing every women as sex objects, they need to be addressed, not the women.

The problem is that before transition, trans women are treated as male and actually benefit from the pay disparity in the workplace, not suffer from it. I do wonder if there have been any studies done on transitioned/passing trans women in the workplace and what the paygap is compared to cis women, that would be interesting to see.

I have heard from trans people that they were treated differently once they transitioned.

This is vague and subject to individual interpretation. What does that concretely look like, and what material objective can be pursued to achieve it? I've had conservative women tell me they feel most "equal" when they are subservient to their traditional husbands.

What I meant by being seen as competent is being taken seriously at work. For instance, not having men mansplain you, having your ideas taken seriously, not just taken seriously when a man says the same thing afterwards. Also people not assuming you're less competent because you're a woman, which is the reason women get paid less than men.

Prosecuting rape is not just a feminist issue because it affects everyone. However, I'm glad you brought up the topic of rape, because it disproportionately affects females by male perpetrators. And by ending sex-segregated spaces, there are loopholes which will allow predators to enter those spaces unquestioned. This is already becoming an problem with female prisons.

I agree that rape is a problem, but I think the solution is private spaces, not sex segregated spaces. For instance, locker rooms should have stalls anyway, because why do you need to see a strangers genitals, same sex or not? Rape was always a problem in female prisons. Women rape and sexually harass other women. It doesn’t get as much attention, but it happens.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to "slut shaming" or something else?

Yes, slut shaming.

This is great, these are important women's issues. However, abortion access and menstrual stigma are still priority too, ESPECIALLY in countries and cultures outside of the West. I have never seen trans women step up to the plate and fight with cis women to maintain these rights. Cis women are expected to fight for trans-specific issues, but trans women don't extend the same courtesy.

To an extent I agree.

In fact, it seems when they do talk about it, it's to say "stop calling them women's issues! you're making us feel left out" and center their feelings instead.

It's mainly trans men who insist you stop calling AFAB issues women's issues. It was a trans man who fought to remove the female symbol from Always products. It is trans men who insist you say "pregnant people".

At protests and marches for reproductive rights, pussy hats and uterus signs are branded as "TERF".

No. You are branded a TERF when you say things like "trans men aren't men" or "trans women aren't women", calling transgenderism misogyny, etc.

Why are cis women not allowed to talk about issues that affect their biology and 99% of women in general? If it affects 99% of women, it's a women's issue.

You are allowed to talk about those issues. Everyday Feminism and other social justice groups that are trans-supportive speak about these issues as well.

You're right, and this is my point. Title IX allowed for the establishment of sex-segregated spaces in schools and girls to be given their own sports etc. away from boys, by prohibiting sex discrimination. Prohibiting sex discrimination is what allows for girls to participate in opportunities that are equally afforded to boys. It applies to trans people too, you're correct, because trans people also have a sex.

Title IX does not require separate restrooms and locker rooms though. If schools built gender-neutral facilities, it would not violate Title IX.

Trans activists/feminists are deliberately trying to undo "on the basis of sex" by obfuscating sex and gender identity and render it meaningless.

I don't think using the term gender necessarily renders it meaningless. For instance the New York City Department of Education has Guidelines on Gender Inclusion. It states schools may not create gender-specific dress codes. If a school allows girls to wear skirts, they must allow boys to wear skirts. Schools can't require gender-specific attire for yearbook photos and graduation or other school-sponsored activities. Schools must also allow students to wear hairstyles regardless of gender.

As I stated in my original post, if anyone can identify into any gender or sex, then there is no reason to have any segregated spaces at all based on either gender OR sex.

The only area I support sex-segregated spaces is in sports.

Why were sex-segregated fought for in the first place, why was it necessary, why was it an achievement for women's rights? It is these questions that no QT has answered me, as I said in the OP, which is why I have a fundamental problem with their reasoning.

That's because previously spaces were male only with no substantial women's equivalent. Many of us would not mind gender-neutral spaces.

Genderbender · 2021-05-16T22:04:20+00:00

I think the only institution where sex segregated spaces are justified is sports.

Genderbender · 2021-05-10T16:26:37+00:00

Gender is a psychological sense of being male, female, both or neither. Religion is the belief and worship of a god.

Genderbender · 2021-04-27T02:12:23+00:00

But it's not about the other parties present ignoring adolescent boys' spontaneous erections, it's about the embarrassment that they cause the boys themselves. Pubescent boys find the unpredictable behavior of their penises mortifying enough in any event - why add to their distress by creating situations where their unwanted, embarrassing boners are naked & in full view of their female relatives, teachers, neighbors, classmates, etc?

Then change in a stall.

We know this. But that's pie in the sky. It's not gonna happen. The rest of us here are having a convo about the real world in the present time.

But there are many of us who fight for gender neutral spaces.

A main goal of a civilized society should be to allow everyone regardless of age, sex, race, physical ability, cultural heritage, belief, religious faith, background etc to participate in society and move through the public world outside the home with a sense of dignity, bodily privacy and peace of mind.

This is exactly why we have discrimination laws.

Of course you didn't ask. Coz you seem not to give a shit about anyone but yourself and the one small, select group whom you place above everyone else. Sorry, but you come across as utterly bereft of the qualities of both brain and heart that are necessary to devise public policies that are fair and humane to all the diverse parties involved.

Just because I am against sex-segregated spaces doesn't mean I only think about myself above everyone else. That's a bold assumption to make.

Genderbender · 2021-04-27T00:29:32+00:00

Adolescent boys who get spontaneous erections and find themselves aroused at awkward moments by all sorts of stimuli adults of other ages might not find erotic are not "harassing" women.

Is that a problem? You can always ignore an erection.

So why can't the "transwomen" you are so concerned about do the same?

I believe all restrooms and changing facilities should be gender neutral with stalls.

Also, did you and do you customarily ask the men you encounter in men's restrooms how they feel about your presence there? Or do you just assume that if it's OK with you, then it must be OK with every one of them?

I never asked men. Most don't seem to care, some point out I'm in the men's room, to which I respond I don't care. A few objected, and I remind them they are the ones who started talking to me. I don't care what men think.

Genderbender · 2021-04-26T17:34:55+00:00

I know there have been bathroom lawsuits by trans men. Gavin Grimm sued the school board because his high school wouldn't let him use the boy's bathroom. Drew Adams also sued his school for not being able to use the boy's bathroom. As for prisons, I read somewhere 4 trans men in California requested to be placed in male prisons. I usually agree with the ACLU, but I hate that they blocked a request for finding our how many trans people asked to be housed in prisons in accordance to their gender identity.

Genderbender · 2021-04-26T01:28:14+00:00

When trans men complain about transphobia, or when women complain about harassment, I listen with sympathy and try to change policy. If trans men didn't want to get a job because they feared transphobia, I would tell them we can't prevent everything though what matters is the company's reaction to the transphobia.

Genderbender · 2021-04-25T04:04:35+00:00

Yes.

Genderbender · 2021-04-07T22:34:01+00:00

I agree with all of this except not being allowed to use the word cis. Just don't call other users cis without their consent.

Genderbender