Men’s lesbian porn subreddits don’t allow any trans women to post. Yet reddit doesn’t ban them.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T14:04:05+00:00

First of all, I largely agree with your reasoning. But isn’t it interesting how when it comes to non-white people, we can stop and say “hey, given our racist past and present, shouldn’t we be careful about this?” but even suggesting that we do that for women is unacceptable. Black people were literal slaves, considered 3/5 human, and they still got the right to vote before women did. There is so much sexism in our society even today.

Additionally, there is the issue that “should be” isnt the same as “is”. It would be nice if skin color meant nothing. In reality, racism (both conscious and subconscious) is a serious problem and has been for all of human history. When some white person claims to be black and uses that to, for example, speak on behalf of blacks people, take positions in black organizations, win black scholarships, police the speech of black people, and so on, that seems gross.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T11:00:58+00:00

I think you really hit the nail on the head. You're right, it's much more about image than reality. Unlike you, though, I've found that a lot of these girls aren't interested in hearing about whether this hurts other people. They get enraged if you even suggest anything other than them being valid.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T04:47:23+00:00

There are too many comments here acting like this is all the work of trans women. There are SO MANY homophobic bi women causing this issue, constantly shouting down the lesbians and exemplifying exactly what lesbians are sick of. Even on this post, the majority of the comments are from bisexual women.

An example: a “lesbian” saying she believes that sexuality is fluid because she’s 95% attracted to women and only sleeps with men on occasion. A real lesbian commented saying this was the type of treatment they were talking about, her co-opting lesbianism when she isn’t one. She replies saying the lesbian is a gold star and has no right to tell her that she isn’t gay just because she likes sucking penis.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-11T20:05:41+00:00

I’ve seen a lot of them honestly suggest that you have sex with them anyway and just don’t touch their dick. Reminds me of the guys who ask lesbians if they can just finger them, except this time apparently it’s progressive

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-05T18:19:24+00:00

Hahaha apparently a girl blowing her boyfriend before watching the L word is more of a lesbian than an actual lesbian from before “lesbian culture” was really a thing. Like ok dumbass

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T13:02:11+00:00

As an aside, I think being really anti-men is another red flag for a "lesbian". It makes it seem like they have this laundry list of grievances for why they don't want to be with a guy, like they're staying away with intention. When in my experience actual lesbians (myself included) don't really care enough to hate guys like that. Because us not being interested in a man has nothing to do with whether or not he's a good person

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-12T01:41:48+00:00

I’m not surprised at this point either, but I am frustrated that bi women are essentially making themselves the ambassadors of a community they’re not even part of. I wish there were more bi people calling it out for what it is.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-12T01:33:44+00:00

Worst part: this has over 200 upvotes and a bunch of comments saying “omg this is just like me!!”

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T11:01:42+00:00

You know, whether or not someone has a bigoted reason for not wanting to date you, lying about yourself to gain access to someone who wouldn't otherwise want you is always a shitty move

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-12T01:33:13+00:00

For real. It’s so tone deaf. I’m not even welcome at family occasions BECAUSE I’m a lesbian. But sure, it’s so easy, a lesbian couple is clearly just gal pals + sex with no worries at all.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T14:22:55+00:00

Transracial is more convincing because “race” doesn’t really even exist. Obviously there is a difference between a white person and a Nigerian but there isn’t some moment where a person goes from being say, asian to European, genetically.

Again, should be isnt the same as is. Sex is not treated inconsequentially at all, and it often comes with privilege that is made invisible by transitioning in the same way that Donald trump identifying as a black man would make his privilege invisible. And great, I’m happy that women are allowed to talk about their issues according to (some) trans people, but that doesn’t change that trans women are speaking on behalf of women, taking spots in women’s organizations and leadership, telling women how to speak, and taking awards and scholarships designated for women. All of these things were created in the first place because women (as in the female sex, not trans women) have historically been seen as property for sexual gratification and babymaking.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-03T17:16:28+00:00

As an aside, they really are total assholes for beating up their own supporters. How many people here started off as supportive but got berated enough that they finally snapped?

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T11:34:06+00:00

And mysteriously, the one guy who they liked in the entire world, over the course of their entire life, happened to like them back, and like them enough that they got married. Sure.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-11T18:42:06+00:00

This seems just as dumb as it seemed before. They should've never co-opted a word that referred to an oppressed group of gay people. I don't care if a bunch of straight and bi women are trying to stick it to the man or be celibate or whatever it is. Leave us out of it.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-04T23:41:03+00:00

I think the idea of words not having meanings is the source of 90% of this bullshit. If a word meant nothing, you would have no reason to use it. There is such a demand for access to words like “lesbian” because they do know what it means and like the idea of being seen that way, even if it isn’t true. Otherwise we’d see just as much demand for identifying as a turtle or an Xbox.

Every time someone incorrectly leaves themselves, the meaning of that word changes a little more. At this point the majority of people calling themselves lesbians in gay spaces are not lesbians. That has an effect on the world and especially on actual lesbians.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-04T08:07:31+00:00

Gee whiz, it’s almost like I’m a member of droptheT and not the biggest fan of trans ideology. It’s almost like I can state what a group is for the purposes of a list without agreeing with their beliefs. 🙄

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T13:16:45+00:00

There's a line between normal venting like about sexism at work and "men are awful! all they do is lie, cheat, and attack us! i don't even associate with ANY men at all! lesbians RISE UP!!" like maam this is a wendy's

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-15T23:24:13+00:00

What does this have to do with trans people trying to date gay people lmao. Ok then?

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-12T04:41:13+00:00

In fact, they will ban actual lesbians for not validating them enough.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T15:28:16+00:00

Gender doesn’t exist, but sex does. Trans people are not just trying to change gender-related conversations. Nearly all sex-based protections, interest groups, scholarships, awards, competitions, and so on have been opened to trans women as well. Even sexualities, doctors, sports, the prison system and biology as a whole are under attack by people who insist there is no meaningful difference, that sex is fluid, or that penises can be female organs. This is absolutely a conversation about both, because the community at large is insisting that gender identity should be the deciding factor on everything. I don’t think many people would have an issue with someone simply saying they’d like to socially addressed as a woman but don’t expect to be included in single-sex spaces, women’s organizations, winni women’s awards, etc.

I appreciate talking to you too, and wish there was more of this kind of discussion going on. I agree that we overlap on several things. Have a good day!

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-07T15:31:24+00:00

Lmao they love to deny it but when it’s on their own subreddit the honesty comes out

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-04T08:03:07+00:00

How is that misleading? That’s what they’re attempting to do. I’m stating what the group is so I can make my point.

And yes, read the first paragraph. “ (Obviously this is a generalization. Just a trend I’ve noticed. Focusing on people who are gay or straight, not bisexual, as I’ve found the bisexual trans people to be a mix of the groups.)”

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T12:40:37+00:00

But bi women are welcome in almost all lesbian communities. Hell, they are even the majority in most cases.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T11:03:36+00:00

But see for me it isn't even the dating itself. Like let's say there is some girl who thinks men usually have crappy personalities so she has only clicked with women. But she will still naturally know how she feels when she looks at idk Chris Hemsworth in a movie. She will know what she thinks about the idea of a penis. I don't buy that they had NO CLUE at all that they were bisexual, at least not in the vast majority of cases. And as I said, in many cases I have seen that these girls will still claim their husband is the "exception" even though they were sleeping with men a week before they met him.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-09T17:16:10+00:00

Oh man, I hate those types. They see lesbianism as a choice you make when you lose your main options. They end up sticking around for a short phase (during which they loudly scream about comphet and lesbianism) before getting a boyfriend and becoming “sexuality is fluid” advocates. It’s really degrading and misogynistic.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-03T17:29:06+00:00

The sub is like partially that and partially bisexual women saying “I love my husband but I figured out I’m a big ol’ lezzie!! Xoxo he loves that Im gay though, he supports it so much that he’s letting me have a threesome this weekend :) I still want to be with him until I die (duh!) but I love being gay!

P.S. anyone who questions this is a bigot TERF so fuck off. I am a lesbian!!”

You think I’m joking, but the amount of attention seeking bi women claiming to be lesbians (even as they blow their husband after putting their three kids to bed) is insane.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-17T05:21:54+00:00

Many gay men have been turned away from this movement because of radical feminists treating them poorly. I know because I know several of them. This was also a common topic on reddit, gay and bi men who agree but don’t feel comfortable around women who are often frankly misandrists and social justice warriors. The same happens with many straight people and even women in general who arrive to support and then realize that there are still a lot of extremists here. It was part of the reason I made this post

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-16T10:12:05+00:00

Lmao you weren't a lesbian. Thanks for letting the class know that you found your perfect penis when you started dating dudes. It was very important for us to hear that your taken lesbian friends were insecure as well.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-05T18:23:06+00:00

Lol she was fine with his penis up until he said he was trans and she “became a lesbian”. She’s just trying to act gay by emulating what the lesbians say lol

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-05T18:21:27+00:00

I actually laughed out loud. Forget that this woman is straight, forget that her man is straight, what’s really important is that she takes her boy over to the Subaru dealership so they can get their lesbian certificate. I can’t even believe lmao

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-16T10:19:09+00:00

Lesbians and straight men are physically not capable of being attracted to dudes, let alone dating, fucking, and marrying them. This isn't a hard concept for most people in the world.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T05:04:06+00:00

At this point, as a lesbian I’ve just decided that I’m better off without lesbian spaces. Going in there feels like masochism because of the amount of homophobia, fetishization, and appropriation that you run into almost immediately. Then on top of that they treat you like you’re hateful just because you’re gay, immediately holding you to a high standard and grilling you for imperfections. I would like to talk to some lesbians but I would rather be the only one I know than be around people who make me feel like garbage.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-09T17:14:38+00:00

Unfortunately, this is my experience too. And if you call any of them out, they rage and say it’s their label and affects no one else. Because apparently they live in on another planet and dont represent a growing mob of homophobic women telling the world that gay women really do like men.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-15T11:38:24+00:00

I find that aside from people on the far left, people either don’t agree with trans ideology or are paying it lip service. Most liberals are along the lines of “well let’s just be nice and get along”. They don’t realize that there are people thinking they can be trans lesbians, taking down businesses, protesting women’s spaces, etc. Once they hear about it they kind of freeze. They also tend to assume that LGBTALDJDLFO is a monolith and are surprised that we don’t all get along. A lot of them even think trans is basically just gay but even gayer, associating it with drag queens and gay men.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-09T17:12:28+00:00

And the key thing with all of these people: there is pretty much no one on earth that thinks only lesbian sex is real sex while straight sex isn’t. I have never even heard of a same sex couple having an arrangement where the bi girl can suck all the peen she pleases but has to refrain from other vag. It’s a very misogynistic thing

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-07T06:22:58+00:00

One of the many tone deaf things they do. Another being how they’re not seen as lesbians so they get treated like a straight couple... as if being visibly gay has ever made a couple’s life easier lol

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T12:48:33+00:00

I've heard them say that lots of lesbians must like men instead of accepting that they just aren't a lesbian. But that is a very homophobic thing to do. I would care less about this if they werent doing this in such large numbers and throwing actual lesbians out for even questioning it.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-17T23:31:46+00:00

That was an isolated incident though. The vast majority of men’s subreddits are not facing any backlash for this. I did an experiment where I posted transbian porn on a few of them and all of them removed the post. A few even got comments from straight men saying “this isn’t lesbian porn, fuck this garbage”

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-05T18:18:30+00:00

Lmao they don’t even say bisexual, they jump straight to the lesbian label. Is the attention that awesome?

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-09T16:59:23+00:00

Some dumbass: “Quick preface, I have had (and am open to, though not in any way pursuing) relationships with men. However, my primary attraction, by an overwhelming majority, is to women. I wear my gayness on my sleeve, in that I have what most would consider to be a generally "butch" physical presentation, though not entirely so in my demeanor. I honestly don't really get flack from anybody, in our out of the community.”

Gee whiz, maybe it’s because you JUST admitted that you’re actually bisexual and down to date any cute guy that approaches you. Why would anyone hate you for being exclusionary when you’re DTF? And why on earth would you think you should be speaking for lesbians, or that it’s appropriate for you to tell them what problems they are or aren’t facing?

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-06T12:01:39+00:00

You can tell because they usually (obviously not all men are creeps, but the ones posting on AL tend to be) either fetishize or infantilize us.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-03T17:13:28+00:00

In what world is this acceptable? The poor girl seems like she doesn’t even understand what’s going on. She just looks scared and confused, but no, ignore the lesbian feeling isolated and afraid, it’s more important that nobody ever acknowledges that a penis is a male organ. We’re not even allowed to use medical terms or comfort each other anymore, but we’re the bigots apparently

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T14:18:35+00:00

Weeaboos would jump on the chance to be transracial if they could.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-03T17:21:52+00:00

This is what happened to me. The problem is that they attack their allies. I was on the trans train, but the hate didn’t stop. It wasn’t enough that I agreed with 99%, the 1% that I didn’t agree with made me an irredeemable monster unless I was immediately willing to change my mind. I’m not a TERF now either, but I am definitely a lot more sympathetic to how TERFs became so vocal

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T12:36:02+00:00

I agree with you that it can be hard to realize you are gay. I don't think this is the same situation though, actually it is the opposite. It is hard to realize you are gay at times because society is heteronormative and you often don't realize that you aren't like the rest of the pack. It can be easy to rationalize what's going on because you don't know many people like yourself and have not been taught to understand those feelings. In many houses, people are even taught to NOT be gay.

It is another thing entirely to live in a heteronormative society, proclaim yourself to be gay against this society, and then claim to "not notice" that you wanted to suck a penis when the entire world expected and encouraged you to.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-15T23:26:26+00:00

A large amount of their group is just made of socially awkward people who spend all their time online.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-15T23:18:38+00:00

How are there THAT MANY white people? I doubt any of the other subreddits have such an extreme ratio

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-12T08:06:29+00:00

I am well aware of the social pressures on people, particularly women. I am not asking for everyone to be a gold star and I am not even a gold star myself. I am from an extremely conservative background where I was disowned for being a lesbian. But this article, and latebloomerlesbians in general, is absolutely loaded to the brim with women who are not even remotely lesbians but convince themselves they are or intentionally lie about it. And no, the problem with this article is not that you have to "agree with every point" but that almost every single part of it sounds nothing like a lesbian. The only things I cut from the document were rambling areas from the points above, so don't be disingenuous. That isn't because of social pressure, that is because of the clear attraction to men, upset with bad relationships that have nothing to do with sexuality, and general total lack of understanding of homosexuality. Even look at you here... "well some of them date women!" Yeah, ok, plenty of them don't, and of the ones that do are almost always bisexual women who are attracted to men as well.

Sure, they can be bisexual, but they are not lesbians if they are reading this post and even kind of thinking that it sounds accurate. They are not lesbians if they read a place like latebloomerlesbians, which is full of women proudly calling themselves lesbians despite being in love with their husband, regularly fucking dudes, having boyfriends, or retaining attraction to men that they choose not to act on. That isn't because they're "late bloomers" and the mean gold stars are putting them down, this is not because people expect you to know everything about everything in the womb. This is because they were never lesbians to begin with. Your reaction to this stuff, and the subreddit latebloomerlesbians in general, makes me seriously doubt that you're a lesbian as well.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T15:49:46+00:00

Unfortunately I agree somewhat. I do think there’s a lot of social causes for it too though. Like men make a lot of the money, they are socialized take charge romantically and sexually, they have most of the power, they have social acceptance on their side, and women are taught to be more demure. Then there’s the fetishization aspect, because men drive what’s considered desirable. All of these things feed into the way bi and gay women act. I think if gay men were in this situation, we’d see a lot more “fluidity” with them too. But unfortunately, we’re in this situation...

Additionally, this kind of thing is why you don’t see straight men jumping around on their identities so much. Women’s sexuality is belittled and fetishized so women feel free to exaggerate, lie, etc. about it without fear of the consequences. No man is going to risk coming out as even bisexual unless they lean towards men, because they’re going to carry a stigma, be seen as less manly, and have a hard time with women from then on. Even if they admit to being with another man once, while on the other hand straight women are being pressured into threesomes and experimentation with women.

Astrid2448 · 2020-07-15T09:12:36+00:00

This post is obviously fake imo and clearly bi people don’t stop being bi when they get into a straight marriage. On the other hand, acting like having fetishized three ways with your husband is some shockingly lesbian moment is obnoxious. The “obviously bi girls have threesomes!” is also pretty biphobic.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-17T08:37:50+00:00

It’s not the lesbians being mean, it’s the radical feminists being misandrist social justice warriors who are often just as arrogant and authoritarian as TRAs. And yes, if you treat people like trash or act like a moron they’ll be less inclined to support you.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-15T11:35:25+00:00

You know, lesbians are just gay women. Appropriating gay isn’t much better than appropriating lesbian. When people hear “I’m gay” they aren’t hearing “hi, I’m a bisexual who likes appropriating this word, I like what it does for my image!”, they’re hearing “I’m gay”. There are a LOT of women like your friend and it isn’t just silly little confusion, it has an effect and it’s harmful.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T16:11:08+00:00

They deny it all day but to me it’s always seemed pretty obvious. It’s a few specific archetypes that you see over and over. It’s not even just about appealing to men (though that’s a big part of it), it’s their image in general. They want to be seen as unattainable, mysterious, sexy, independent, cool. And apparently pretending to be a lesbian is their way of doing that. This goes for straight women, but bisexual women do it even more

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-09T17:12:49+00:00

The fact that they think it’s a choice 🙄

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T11:07:18+00:00

I should correct myself and say I mean "typical lesbian spaces", which are full of queer politics. This one fringe space that has been branded a hate space and forced onto a different website is very different from the average lesbian space.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-12T04:46:56+00:00

I would want a blowjob. Tbh. Then I would get my wife pregnant.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-07T15:33:00+00:00

Because trans women lead the movement, not trans men. Actually, you can do a little thought experiment and imagine how this movement would’ve gone if it was mostly about trans men instead of trans women... people probably would’ve laughed it off.

Astrid2448 · 2020-07-31T22:09:02+00:00

That’s disgusting. They should be ashamed, especially given how much lesbians have been oppressed historically because they were assumed to be secretly bisexual. I’ve even seen women who are MARRIED to men (happily! Not trapped in a straight marriage!) saying they’re lesbians. How did we get here?

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T13:18:49+00:00

Yeah, agreed. Sure I have my issues with sexism and stuff but I know plenty of cool dudes. I've got guy friends that are smart, handsome, kind, etc. and they are going to be great boyfriends to somebody. It's just not me and that's cool

Astrid2448 · 2020-07-16T04:51:38+00:00

Yeah, call out people like that. I wouldn’t tolerate that shit from anyone, let alone a “friend”

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-09T17:22:12+00:00

I don’t think this is common with actual lesbians. But I did notice a trend where strippers and sex workers like to call themselves lesbians both as a marketing tactic and a way to distance themselves from men. They aren’t actually gay though, they just like saying it. So they frequently end up with men.

Example: the girl who wrote that “quarantine made me sleep with my male roommate” article was a “lesbian” sex worker.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-05T18:36:44+00:00

This is why you have to make your move in less than two years. No offense but she was going to date someone else eventually because at this point nothing has happened with you in forever. Odds are she is just another bisexual but take this as a lesson and shoot your shot next time. It’s better to be rejected upfront so you can move on than prolong it this way, because as time goes on it’s easier to get attached to the idea of the person. Plus, the confidence in hitting on someone is attractive. When you’re ready and you meet another cute girl, go for it, take a shot if you need to.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-03T17:26:23+00:00

LMAO. This woman was never a lesbian. I’m not even talking about her being with a transwoman, i mean in general. She has another post from just a few months ago saying:

I [25F] am developing feelings for my close friend [24M] of 3 years, and I don't like it

Quote from post: “I really like him specifically, to my own surprise. I didn't take the time to describe our relationship, but I love him for who he is. He's really kind and caring, as well as funny, very clever and super hot (imo).”

Can she at least pick a better lie next time? Lmao

Astrid2448 · 2020-07-19T23:28:10+00:00

You know what, no. Truebisexuals is absolutely tiny and there is a reason for it.

The vast majority of the time some asshat treats gay men and lesbians like crap over this stuff, it is either someone who is trans or someone who is bisexual. Nearly every one of the nonsense sexualities and genders is another word for bisexual. The people seeking out, trapping, and lying to lesbians to try to get a threesome? Bisexual women. The people calling themselves lesbians despite loving penis, having a husband or boyfriend, or sleeping with men? Bisexual women. The people pushing the terms “bi lesbian”? Bisexual women. The people who currently take up the majority of any given lesbian space, and become incredulous the second that’s questioned? The people who constantly seek attention for sleeping with women? The people who fetishize lesbians and encourage men to do so as well? The people who say sexuality is fluid, genitals are a preference, and that gay men and lesbians are just closed minded? All of these are so often bisexual people, specifically bisexual women. It is not one or two bad apples, it is a community issue.

I am perfectly fine with reasonable, chill, and respectful bisexuals. I feel the same about reasonable, chill, and respectful trans people. But if accepting you guys means we have to close our ears and go “la la la” over the MASSIVE numbers of bi women in particular who are gleefully destroying the lesbian community, or that’s bullshit. If us even mentioning that means you’re going to throw a fit and ditch us as well, that’s bullshit too.

Astrid2448 · 2020-07-16T04:52:49+00:00

Right this is what I’m talking about. These setups are very common not just in the poly community but in general. Society heavily encourages it, especially men and the media. If you’re going to do it whatever, but don’t act like you’re making some big move by doing exactly what men and straight society have been praying you’d do for ages: providing him with more women to enjoy. Making homemade lesbian porn for his fetishizing pleasure. Providing a fantasy of owning many women and having each of them have no men but him. There is a reason why nearly every young girl seems to desperately want to be seen as bisexual.

Astrid2448 · 2020-07-16T04:46:50+00:00

Like dykely said they’re not compromising it. The girl gets seen as cooler and hotter because they do this. That’s why these kinds of girls never shut up about it and how bisexual they are.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-13T06:15:43+00:00

I think its lame to keep throwing these insults in either direction. People should defend their points, not just yell "meanie!" every time they don't like someone's argument

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T15:42:55+00:00

I agree with you, I just think that none of this changes that for example, in places like actuallesbians there are like 10 bi women for every 1 lesbian. I don’t see how pretending to be a lesbian in places like this (which is the way most lesbian spaces are now) has anything to do with pleasing lesbians when the girls in this space are mostly speaking to bi and trans women. We often don’t even run our own spaces, leadership is usually also bisexual. And then there’s real life where these girls are usually telling straight people (especially straight men) that they’re lesbians.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-17T00:19:52+00:00

I don’t think they’re sitting around thinking it. I think they might come close to “peaking” and then find groups like gendercritical, which are often just as stupid but in a different way. Part of the problem is that these people are creating this huge conflict within their leftist circles that is not immediately visible to people outside it, but hurts LGB and even TQ+.
The link is that both radfems and libfems are extremely involved in the LGBT issues to the point of it being like a mini war within both feminism and the extreme left. They are often not even gay themselves but obsessed with the issue.
I am aware of the legal issues and I comment on them. I just think radfems are hurting our case rather than helping it in many cases.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-17T05:15:41+00:00

Couldn’t have said it better man. Appreciate having you around. The only thing I would add is even when it comes to the L, they are only supportive of lesbians who fully agree with them. If you differ from their views in any aspect they will shout you down as well. Just like TRAs.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T19:12:02+00:00

You mean like straight men sleeping with each other in prison? Sexual behavior can be weird anywhere, people just hide it depending on how it’s seen by their demographic of interest. In the case of radfems, they aren’t trying to impress men, they’re trying to impress their radfem friends who see lesbianism as some pure higher existence (which it is not). They are trying to show that they are independent and don’t need a man to those people, often after something bad like abuse. Gay men are not seen as pure by anyone, because what they do isn’t trivialized and fetishized. Instead it tends to mark whoever does it as feminine (which is seen as insulting) and disgusting, especially historically.

Edit: person above me explained this very well

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T19:04:13+00:00

You misunderstood my first point. I’m not saying that they’re with men because they like power. I’m saying that it’s much, much easier to find a boyfriend than a girlfriend given that men have much more capital and are raised to be forward. Lesbians don’t even really have spaces for you to go to, meanwhile you can walk down the street and have a man who will not only date you but pay you to be there essentially. You can go to a bar and have sex lined up. This is a big part of why out bi men tend to go for men as well, because they can find a man much more easily.

On incels: Because being a gay man is seen as degrading while being a lesbian is fetishized and not taken seriously. Meanwhile, because of the history women have, being “above the patriarchy” is something that’s seen as cool and independent. It is not cool to be above straightness as a man. Actually, if you know a lot of gay men, almost all of them will tell you that they’ve hooked up with men who say they are straight. Plenty of times they even really believe it and string gay guys along, etc. There is a lot of heartbreak that goes on in that community as well, because men who are not out bi men (the out ones being those who PREFER men, not just like both) are extremely reluctant to announce it out of fear. Women tend to jump on the opportunity to even call themselves lesbians because they will get seen as sexy by their future boyfriends. And many women are desperate to be seen as desirable by the people who have historically literally owned them. You see this same kind of behavior with other minorities too.

Of course men will show less of this behavior when historically they’ve been the owner of the woman. A guy dating a woman who makes more, is taller, is smarter, is more authoritative, etc. is seen as a loser and frequently insulted.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-09T17:19:53+00:00

I agree with you and it’s a rough situation. It’s a combination of heteronormativity, sexism (because same sex relationships between women are so trivialized that these women treat it like a party hat) and misogyny (hmm, I wonder why bisexuality between women is so desired..). But I don’t know how you’d change it either. I ran into quite a few of these girls when I was single and didn’t really give them the time of day, so I didn’t have as many experiences with them (ok with me). I did date bisexuals but tried to stick with the ones who I could tell were more committed and not just stepping in for the experience and the stories to tell their future husband. It made me feel like I had a dating pool of like five people to choose from, but I did meet my current partner.

Maybe it’ll help if you run when you see the red flags with how they talk about men and women.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-07T02:06:09+00:00

Lmao a lot of what you’re saying is true, but it is absolutely not true that this is all the work of evil straight women. The majority of this nonsense is being pioneered by bisexual women. They are the majority in lesbian spaces, not straight women or lesbians. Half the reason the doc became so popular was because bisexual “lesbians” adored it. And they adored it because they do like women. They just like men as well.

Even when a straight woman decides to call herself a lesbian, this dies out very quickly. If she can’t even stomach being with a woman, she’s going to drop out fast. The exception here is when straight women date trans women. Bi women on the other hand can happily go “well he’s my exception!!” Then they start screaming about how sexuality is fluid and lesbianism is limiting on Twitter. Then they start telling their boyfriends that lesbians like men too. Then they start hooking up with guys and posting in r/sex about how some lesbians love penises. Then they start advocating for “bi lesbians” and “pan lesbians” and throwing out lesbians who disagree.

I’ve actually found some unlikely allies in straight women through all this, because they are also being pressured to be “fluid”. The pressure on women to be bisexual for their boyfriend’s viewing pleasure is massive right now. Straight women are often seen as boring, uncool, frigid or closed-minded. (None of this applies to straight men, of course). They are also granted less time to speak and assumed to be oppressors.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-03T17:18:08+00:00

They generally only default to “sex exists, we’re just saying our GENDER is different” when they get called out on poor behavior. Before that they’re all for attacking gay people for not liking the opposite sex, demanding access to women’s healthcare, etc. If this was just about people going “hey, I identify differently than my sex, but I understand the reality that sex matters as well as gender :)” none of this would ever happen.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T13:20:53+00:00

That's just tact though, that's not about being bisexual. There's plenty of bi women who aren't that socially unaware that they drag their boyfriend to a lesbian panel and force everyone to center them

Astrid2448 · 2020-07-16T04:48:02+00:00

Lol good point about girls doing that for attention on Instagram. Or calling their friends their wives and stuff like that. A lot of them know on some level that they’re relishing that men might think they’re really involved with a woman and picture them together.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T13:57:10+00:00

If transracial ever became a thing you better believe the Japanese and Koreans would get an influx of creepy incels... as the lesbians are now

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-12T01:50:03+00:00

Oh, plenty of them are young too. Stupidity has no age limit :(

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-10T15:52:10+00:00

It’s a combination of a lot of different things, some of which are worsened by the current “progressive” atmosphere which incentivizes trying to look cool and oppressed through your sexuality. Women haven’t had agency for that long in history, fetishization, lying bi women, power dynamics, etc.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-04T14:38:09+00:00

Plenty of gay men who don't even consider themselves trans love makeup and fashion. There are a lot of people in entertainment like this. Some examples could be Jeffree Star and James Charles. I don't see why a gay man who transitions couldn't like those things.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-01T08:33:15+00:00

I appreciate you trying to listen to lesbians. I am slightly confused by the first part of your post however. Are you saying you were always occasionally attracted to men, but stopped identifying as a lesbian once you started dating one?

Astrid2448 · 2020-07-16T04:49:27+00:00

And how do you think that starts? This. It’s not just the men, it’s also these women loving being seen as cool, sexy, and totally not like boring straight women.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-17T23:33:08+00:00

Both. Some of them outright have a rule against trans women and some remove it quietly.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-17T12:22:49+00:00

We are associated with radfems though. It isn’t some misconception, it’s true. Any anti-TQ group you make will be immediately filled with radfems, like you said they consistently fight against it. And radfems did use detrans to further their beliefs. They often stalk other subreddits, both when they agree with them and when they don’t. And the TRAs do the same thing.

I can understand why you feel that we are not being attacked by radfems as they are definitely more open to listening to LGB people in some contexts. However, I stand by saying their willingness to hear you talk is conditional. They listen because you agree with them on trans issues. If you say anything that goes against their ideology, they are not going to listen to you either. And like TRAs, they don’t treat people they disagree with well, because they see themselves as morally superior. Also like TRAs, this applies if you agree with 90% of what they are saying but don’t agree on the 10%, and they seek to control the narrative. On reddit, they were happy to mass downvote gay people on LGBdroptheT if it meant that the radfems could boost themselves to the top of the page. They are also generally less kind to gay men than they are to lesbians.

I agree that the extremism seen in radical feminism is partially due to liberal feminists attacking women’s rights. However, it isn’t the whole story. Most radfems were already hardcore liberal feminists before becoming upset with them over trans rights issues. Had trans rights activists been less extreme, they would just be part of far left feminism as another loud SJW on Twitter. That’s what I’m pointing out.

I appreciate your thoughts and think you stated them well, btw.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-14T07:05:05+00:00

nah, they do this thing where they think misgendering people is the ultimate way to get you to agree with them. this really flipped the tables on these people lmao

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-12T08:11:07+00:00

My wife is bisexual so if I swapped sexes I could use that perk hahaha

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-07T01:04:49+00:00

Funny story... there was a 4chan post that went viral a few years ago because a girl joined girl gamers on reddit and became part of their discord. Apparently the discord was full of trans women who thanked her for “supporting inclusive gaming” by being part of the chat. Most of them still had male voices.

The post went viral and guys were replying saying maybe this is why so many more people online seem to say they’re gamer girls than there appear to be irl.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-05T18:05:31+00:00

From what I can see, what happened is that they were originally the transsexuals of the past. Then as the trans movement got more extreme, more and more people from the mainstream trans movement got displaced into truscum, where they wouldn’t have fit even a year ago. So now you have all these trans people there that pretty much believe all of trans ideology except “autismgender” being real, and call themselves reasonable because of it

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-16T22:06:17+00:00

This message actually made me feel a lot better. You’re right, they are actively trying to break down what homosexuality is. The end goal is that gender doesn’t exist, sex doesn’t exist, and sexuality doesn’t exist. Purely just “I like this individual person” which in one way might make a gay relationship more casual, but in another makes it impossible for us to talk about our own lives and problems.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-13T06:21:46+00:00

I actually didn't know this term was related to the black community at all until now. I've never used it but I'm learning from this thread.

Astrid2448 · 2020-08-13T06:14:43+00:00

Where I live, pretty much every girl in the 18 - 25 range claims some sort of LGBT+ identity.

Astrid2448