The definition of "Gender" and how TRAs use it to push their agenda by Kai_Decadence in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is irrelevant to policy questions whether man and woman now refer to gender instead of sex. Say we have defined these words to meaninglessness. The concept of sex still exists and is what is relevant to (womens sports, womens restroom and locker rooms, healthcare, sexual orientation, etc.) Call it AFAB sports, AFAB locker rooms, AFAB healthcare, AFABosexual, for all I care, because these things aren't separated based the arbitrary syllables in wo/man but the concept of sex. (Joking to make a logical point aside - Don't. Capitulation isn't worth it and doesn't work, and most people won't know wtf any of that shit is supposed to mean.)

Can the gender continuum test predict whether you are male or female? by soundsituation in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I got 99.93% likely male, 0.07% female. Think my personality is more balanced than that but whatever. Must be heavily weighted on most predictive. Sex-focused, thick skinned, and risk taking are strongest traits of mine after being emotionally thick -headed and disagreeable. The female correlated traits are how I try to be but the male-correlated traits are more how I am. Except wouldn't want to ditch the lack of anxiety and thick skinned traits. Those come in handy.

Can the gender continuum test predict whether you are male or female? by soundsituation in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a predictive percent giving the odds that some unknown person who gives that set of responses is male or female. That's why they used the word "predicts" because the machine algorithm spitting out the prediction doesn't know the sex of who is answering. Its saying that about 90% of who answers that way is female.

Can the gender continuum test predict whether you are male or female? by soundsituation in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's clearly talking about average sex differences in traits and is very clear that they are small differences between population averages, and that there is substantial overlap between the sexes on any given trait.

MtF - osteoporosis, skoliosis, no sexual function, and overwhelming regret. by leached_outcrop in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because they don't want to apply reason. If they did, they would have to consider that people and institutions they trusted have distorted the truth beyond recognition.

That the political sphere is far more hopelessly corrupt than "Democrats good; Republicans bad"

That they have cheered on the sterilization and sexual neutralization of a generation of gay and otherwise gnc kids before they could consent to sex or know what they were missing out on for the e tirety of their adult lives.

That they might indeed have become the baddies.

Most of us here had to think long and hard about whether we were missing something, something that would make it all make sense, something that would show we had somehow lapsed into bigotry and that once we found the flaw in our logic, we could stop being the baddie. That willingness to consider whether you're wrong and examine the arguments in a cold sterile light, prepared to accept fault has been what has allowed many of us to peak. It has taken many of us from "what that tra said is insane but I mustve misunderstood / that can't really be what trans rights is about" to "what the hell is going on here? Is the problem me?" To "it's not bigoted to recognize males and females are physically different and it makes more sense to organize society around objective biological reality than around unverifiable subjective perceptions. "

His body is 90 percent female at this point by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's what happens when you persuade yourself that the truths you like are important and the truths you don't like are irrelevant. Even those truths you deem important are only as important as you can twist them into a funhouse mirror that reflects what you want to see and obscures that which you don't.

Bill Maher Attacking Gender Cult by WildApples in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans is a narrative explanation for the experience of being profoundly gnc from early childhood, but of course has been expanded to include people who developed a fetish or want to be special and different even if they don't stand out.

It is an illogical explanation unmoored from reality, but I think it is important to make the distinction. When you say "trans isn't innate" a lot of people hear "nobody is naturally inclined to be profoundly gnc; they could (and should) act gender conforming as easily as snapping their fingers."

It's that many in society think the trans explanation (born in wrong body, as most understand it) is a good one that is the problem, as it persuades many profoundly (and other not-so-profoundly) gnc people to believe their bodies are wrong and that their happiness is contingent on surgically altering their urogenital systems to approximate a form and function they will never have.

Chicago Mother Loses Custody of Her Daughter—For Insisting That Her Daughter Is A Girl by ku_va_nr in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When you wage war against reality, you condemn yourself to a painful and protracted defeat. The only way to feel that you are winning is to pound bones and mould flesh and crush spirit until all fit within the narrow channels of ideology, but the efforts are in vain, as those channels will inexorably fill to the brim and overflow with the might of Mother Nature, that ceaseless crusader against human delusion and arrogance.

r/gaytransguys - donating blood - lie about your gender! It's all fine! Most of them are virgins anyway but that's not the point by Chocolatepudding in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They do test, but if the blood is drawn too soon after infection, it will be a false negative. That's why they try to exclude higher risk samples. Because biology doesn't care about feelings. So it's no wonder they don't grasp that the exclusion of sexually active gay men is based on biology and not nebulous feelings.

I saw a fairly quickly up voted fundamentalist-y, conservative-y, sounding opinion piece on ovarit. Even with the context of the "tide turning" on gender ideology, it disturbed me as a gnc woman by thump in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In my years posting articles on Reddit, I often posted articles I disagreed with because they were relevant and had new information or a different perspective on a topic, and upvoted for the same reason. And a lot of people either dont read the articles or only skim them. When there had been a lot of news in the old gendercritical subreddit at a time and I was too busy to read all the articles, I would skim the atricles and vote without commenting or make short comments in reply to general ideas in other people's comments.

And when concerned a child might be put onto the gender medicine treadmill, even someone who supports gnc can feel relief if their child changes in a way that makes them less of a target. Very gnc myself, I would feel conflicted if a young relative was as gnc as me because she would be at such high risk. I would try to be very supportive and educate her that being a girl is just biology and that her behaviors and interests are completely compatible with being female, but I know how strong peer influences are and would be somewhat relieved to see her embrace a more feminine style, hoping transition would be less appealing to her now. She wouldn't be immune of course. But the risk would be lower.

Similarly, when I used to see another gnc woman, I felt a sense of commaraderie, a positive recognition. Now, I feel stomach churning because there is a good chance she wants me to call her he or they and assumes by my appearance that I will not only enthusiastically play along but typically assume I have the same preference and call me they unless I say otherwise or outright ask for my pronouns. And the sane ones are usually timid and call me they or avoid pronouns until I tell them it's okay, unless we are at a sci fi confention I prefer to speak reality-based language. I used to expect to catch hell for that from the gendertologists but half the time they dont seem to get what I'm referring to.

r/gaytransguys - now that I understand my gender identity I feel so much more comfortable liking guys ... Lul wot by Chocolatepudding in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Was she facing a lot of rejection from guys?

Maybe. The "because I was pretending to be straight" part leads me to believe it's likely that her gay male fetish was getting in the way of her real world relationships. Like a boy investing so much thought to a fantasy of dating a particular bombshell celebrity that he is disappointed with his real girlfriend and every way she is different from his fantasy girlfriend that he torpedos the relationship.

Could be other things, but the fetishizers almost always talk about how they felt gay before "realizing" they are men, which means they either buy heavily into gay man stereotypes like most fetishizers, or they were forcing themselves to act ultra feminine to attract guys but decide that dropping the act and acting more tomboy or androgynous means that now they're acting like a guy, a gay guy specifically, and then the reason it felt wrong was because she didn't genuinely want to act that feminine, which is why she felt like she was pretending, because she was. Only thing is she doesn't acknowledge she is still pretending, only about being a boy instead of being feminine. That's my most charitable explanation. Probably a fetish though, most "gay trans guys" I've known relished in their femininity, thinking it was transgressive because they thought they were feminine men. They didn't want to be feminine women because they thought that wasn't transgressive or progressive enough, but once they are "men" they feel free to be even more feminine.

Can the dislike or even outright disgust towards Bodybuilder looking women be a form of misogyny? by Kai_Decadence in GenderCritical

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, there's being strong and then there's another level. In bodybuilding competitions juicing is basically universal, and women who hit the gym roided out do look manly to me. Not to the point of confusing them with men (unless they also took testosterone in trans quantities to grow beards), but definitely more physically masculine than I'm attracted to. Muscle definition can be perfectly feminine and attractive, but not to the very low body fat extent. I love seeing muscle definition in a woman's thighs and even torso, but I love softness and curves, so if I can see all the fine muscles popping out like an anatomy model, I'm not into that, and I don't think it's misogyny if men aren't either.

I don't know the limit of what is achievable for natty women bodybuilders or if I would consider that level masculine, but after a certain point you get to a low enough body fat percent that is more like men (even though I know male bodybuilders get significantly lower than that) and it's just much less likely to see women with very high muscle definition like that compared to men, so it makes sense that that they are associated. Kind of like beards, there are women who have them due to a medical problem (self-induced or otherwise) but it is a physically masculine trait to have a lot more facial hair, specifically terminal hair as opposed to vellus.

It doesn't mean having a beard makes a woman a man or even enough to be mistaken as one, but it is more masculine appearing, which is why I shave mine (I get assumed to ID as a man often enough without it, and frankly I wouldn't find it appealing on another woman - idgaf about leg hair, that's normal in a wide spectrum, though if it were thick enough to almost not see the skin at all I don't think I'd like that). Similarly both men and women can achieve muscle definition but men typically much more. It only looks masculine in the extreme.

Girlfriend's past with men makes me feel sick by Just in Lesbians

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

First of all, even if she were talking about other women she would date "if she were single" that's weird and disrespectful.

As for the past with men, it would be one thing if she was opening up about how distressing it was, then you should be supportive and would be selfish to ask her to shut up about it. If it's casual like you say and unprompted, and she also talks about men she would date if she could then she isn't a lesbian. I don't expect all lesbians who have been with men to suffer PTSD the rest of their lives or anything, as people can fortunately be very resilient. But even in the best case scenario, sex with someone you're not attracted to is boring, unpleasant, emotionally empty.

Going as far as to sleep with a man for social conformity is beyond my understanding. I have born the scorn of society from a young age for my failure to conform to various standards and opinions and find it difficult to fathom or respect going to an extreme for social conformity unless the social pressures are equally extreme, such as living where you could be jailed or killed or exiled. I also understand for women who were raised to think of sex as something they must endure and ideally shouldn't even want except to have a child. That may still be common in rural very religious communities, but I have known plenty of women in their 20s with liberal parents who claim to be lesbian but show clear signs of being into men or who claim to be bi but demonstrate no interest in women. Perhaps I underestimate how many girls are being indoctrinated to think that their desires are absolutely irrelevant, but individualist American media often emphasizes the opposite, even if its often twisted to men's advantage "marry for love, so don't care about his looks" .

In modern times in western countries at least, you can at least get away with being celibate even if you don't see an option to be with women. The reluctance to be a pariah is very human and largely instinctual but also why we have this gender insanity so entrenched in institutions.

Because it has been abs in many families and communities still is enough pressure for gay people to straight marry, but is also real that plenty of people who haven't been through that kind of pressure and may be bi but mostly into the same sex (although sometimes not even) pretend that the same script applies to their life story. Personally I don't care about men a woman has been with as long as she's honest about her attractions but I don't have to hear about it all the time.

r/AskWomen - Former tomboys who did a 180 & became totally feminine in appearance, what caused you to make such drastic change? by Imscared in Lesbians

[–]Apis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was always boyish in mannerisms and preferred style - always saw myself growing up to be in a suit and a buzz cut, hated shopping, preferred playing with cars in the mud, never cared much for aesthetics but liked car repair, etc. Experienced sex dysphoria most of my life, was certain I would transition eventually by the time I was 12 (but no one in my country had transitioned children or ever heard of it then), then when I went to college in the states I joined a trans group and intended to start the medical changes as soon as I graduated and had money for it. The group was already radicalized to extreme TRA orthodoxy but I came from a high school where my liberal friend group was really chill and tolerant of different views even when we felt really strongly and we could debate things we disagreed with conservative friends and still stay friends. I naively expected the same in college because I thought that was how all liberals are.

So I would do things like say it's good practice for doctors to require psychological counseling before giving hormones or surgery, because it's a major, permanent life change, and being completely surpised to learn that saying so was apparently tantamount to murdering trans people. I still thought that by calmly and clearly explaining my position they would at least be happy to agree to disagree, at worst. Nope. Castigated, threatened, excluded (unless I recanted, which I obviously couldn't do). Good thing I didn't happen to learn this lesson by mentioning that I thought it was wrong to change legal sex markers and that at most there could be an optional gender marker, or they could use "FTM" or "MTF" so someone checking ID seeing a man with breasts will know this probably isn't a stolen ID or something.

Seeing the insanity first hand didn't make me desist right away, but it persuaded me to keep the "community" at arm's length and drove me out of college (which turned out to be good). I did keep in touch with some online TRAs who weren't as culty as at college but still encouraged me to cut off my parents for not affirming or using male pronouns, instead opting for a unisex nickname.

Fortunately, I still had a good relationship with my dad and while I never related much or got on well with my mum, our relationship also wasnt terrible. We just had/have very different personalities and outlooks on life with little common ground. I still have a couple of significant philosophical disagreements with my father, but we are still far more alike.

Getting to the point, I eventually desisted in my mid 20s when I decided that before doing anything permanent I had to be brutally honest with myself about my dating prospects even if I completely passed when clothed and had the best possible surgical results (even if the surgeries were much better, looked 100% natural with no scars and could completely fool a heterosexual woman), I couldn't bring myself to fool a woman, and while some women might not care if it were the fantasy best case result, I knew that if the shoe were on the other foot and I found out she was a surgically altered male, even a sci-fi level good result that would fool anyone, it would bother me. I remember as a kid writing sci fi that had easy quick and completely real sex changes, I had thought about how creepy men would inevitably try it so they could sleep with a lesbian, just to get around her "no" and that I wouldn't want to sleep with such an altered male even if he was upfront about being male, because it's still using a loop hole to get someone to sleep with you, and it would be disturbing to do ANY kind of major surgical alteration just to get someone to sleep with you, even if it was something off the wall like implanting magnets or tattooing make up or sewing a fin on. So inevitably I would be looking at dating only bi women, who I could date as a woman (even if they dont all want a long-term relationship with a woman, which is ok as long as they are upfront about it - it is a lot easier to conceive children in a het relationship and lots of women want kids).

So I concluded the disadvantages outweighed the advantages, but the one thing that held me back still from desisting was being told that I would only be repressing my gender and become increasingly miserable and either transition eventually anyway after wasting a lot of time half-living or kill myself. My mental health was then extremely precarious, so this seemed a real risk. But I resolved this by reminding myself transition was still going to be on the table, and if my mental health deteriorated, I could go back on that path at any time, whereas if I made a permanent change and regretted, I could never go back to how I was.

So leading back to the main topic - I still prefer masculine style and for daily wear reach for the pants, not skirts. However, once I overcame dysphpria (a decade after desisting), I did not have the same extreme aversion to feminine clothing. Because I knew it didn't have to mean sexual availability to males, or being delicate or demure (not that I believed in those personality stereotypes but I mention because many others with a similar history do). Pants are of course far more practical in the shop, and I know I can appeal to the ladies in a masculine style, but clothing designed for a female body is natually going to show off natural beauty better, so I occasionally wear a dress for a date night or posh event (though I'll still opt for the suit 3/4 times).

While my personality has always been stereotypically masculine beyond any social influences past infancy, the preference for certain styles was very socially influenced. The simple truth was that I wanted to avoid signalling sexual availability or interest in males at all costs, especially since I'm crap at reading social cues and can't recognize flirting for the life of me and am not good at handling those situations in the best circumstances, never mind when a man is reluctant to accept a simple no. (The way I have reacted is something like, grimace queasily, eyes go wide, then, "whoa, no, man, no way. Sorry, don't swing that way." At best)

So when I am more confident about rejecting male advances (or avoiding them in the first place), I don't mind dressing up in a more feminine outfit. If it looks nice, looks good on me, and is comfortable, I don't care anymore. It's just clothes, just like my suit and tie. They look different, but they don't have to mean anything else.

So while I still don't wear make up and rarely wear jewelry and usually am dressed more masculine, sometimes I'll wear a dress and its a drastic change from what people always expected. And I'm not claiming that you have to be comfortable with feminine clothing to get over dysphoria or get over sex stereotypes. Just that my motivation was based mostly on avoiding certain reactions from men besides modeling myself after male fashion because I related better to male stéréotypes and wanted to attract women, and I don't want men dicating my behavior either by acting compliantly or by doing the 180 opposite of compliance. Kind of like how I was keeping myself overweight to reduce male attention but got sick of self-sabotaging because of men, the only difference being that excess weight was harming me whereas style is neutral. I still take male behavior into account, like not going out at night alone, so of course in a patriarchal world I can't be 100% free of these influences.

So in short A) realizing I could also attract women in feminine clothes B) not wanting men's potential reactions to completely dictate my clothing / being more able at avoiding or dealing with those situations. Of coirse I'm not feminine all the time but would get assumed to ID as non binary by those who think style should dictate identity instead of objective criteria.