AL: Transbian complaining that /actuallylesbian is a terf sub and centered on cis lesbianism, another transbian chimes in that it's exclusionary that jokes about lesbian sex is considered lesbian culture

8bitgay · 2021-02-17T03:37:02+00:00

If these lesbians all go to a new sub there won't be any "cis lesbian who centers lesbianism around cis women" left for them to complain. You'd imagine that since they're tired of it they'd like the split, but no.

8bitgay · 2021-02-16T14:33:56+00:00

I'm a gay man

I'm nonbinary masc

They can't even be consistent in a single tweet lol

Also someone should go tell her that she's being transphobic against transwomen for trying to exclude them from the app. Gotta outwoke the homophobes.

8bitgay · 2021-02-15T22:28:25+00:00

Would you have any videos to recommend? If possible, it'd be nice to see one video that you find more reasonable, one that you find least reasonable, and one that you think exemplifies this situation of purposefully ignoring vocal parts of the community.

8bitgay · 2021-02-15T15:48:22+00:00

So, for other people whose mother language isn't English, how do you feel about it?

I find it so bizarre how local communities have adopted the word queer. In English at least it was already a word, and people have the excuse of saying they're appropriating it (whether you agree with it or not).

But here the word never existed until recently! They can't appropriate anything, because no one ever used queer as a slur here. And if there really existed some sincere need to create a new category of sexuality/gender/umbrella term (because queer magically is everything at once), then why the hell did no one create it before? Isn't it such a big coincidence that people only started identifying as a word that didn't even exist in our language just as this identity started becoming more popular in USA, the country which they keep trying to copy?

8bitgay · 2021-02-14T18:25:30+00:00

Teenagers should be asking questions

This is a good take too. I remember when we were told that teenage years are for questioning the social norms.

But these teens aren't questioning anything. They're giving answers to questions nobody asked. They're not questioning social norms, they're building new and more restrictive social norms.

8bitgay · 2021-02-14T14:26:06+00:00

I wanted to share because the post reflects a concern I've heard many people here voice-- that a lot of the people pushing TQ+ rhetoric are just inexperienced teenagers

For sure. I've noticed that lots of the homophobia shared on twitter is originally posted by teens.

I mean, we all were inexperienced as teens and said dumb stuff. The issue is that nowadays you can say your dumb teen wisdom to a large audience on social media.

I blame these teens. But most of all I blame the adults. Why the hell are adults retweeting and sharing the views of these teens? Adults should already know better.

Social media should have tools to at least try to stop adults and teens from interacting with each other. It'd be healthy for both sides.

Bisexuality means attraction to all genders

This blog is anti-terf and pro-nonbinary

Kinda sad to see this blog is being called out for their pro-LGB posts and yet they go and say these things.

everyone is attracted to trans and nb people and saying that you have to be a Special Separate Sexual Orientation to like trans and nb people is really fucking transphobic and dangerous

And they also have posts like this one. Well, it's better to see some progress rather than none, I guess...

8bitgay · 2021-02-14T14:12:51+00:00

an argument against trans people

That's the most mind blowing part. It shouldn't be an argument against trans people as a whole. Someone not being attracted to you shouldn't be an attack on you.

It's only an argument against harassers, against people who try to force others to change their sexualities. If the shoe fits, then that's on you.

Also, as we keep seeing, here is another example of a TRA who has such a rigid view on gender norms that they think gender is determined by clothing.

8bitgay · 2021-02-14T14:07:43+00:00

Lol the whole prostrate thing is hilarious because I can definitely imagine transmen nowadays claiming they have prostrates too.

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T21:17:10+00:00

Yeah. I've seen many comments on Reddit talking about how awful the LGBDropTheT sub was.

In this sub we see many examples of harassment, homophobia, violent discourses, etc. I doubt all those commenters are fine with all these things.

What happens is that, since they know TRAs said and did these things, they immediately feel inclined to agree with them, because they've been peer pressured this way.

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T19:32:14+00:00

If it's a matter of kindness to call someone with CAIS a women, trans right activists can use that to say be kind to people that don't like their sex and body and want to be the opposite sex, call them the opposite sex, treat them as the opposite sex, let them use spaces for their opposite sex, etc.

That's the problem.

Frankly I'm fine with calling people their preferred pronouns, or the name they decide. Your example is extremely simplistic though, since by your language alone on this sentence you imply people only identify as man/woman. Activists moved past this a long time ago.

But anyway, being kind to call them the way they want to be called doesn't mean they are whatever they want to be. Letting them use spaces that aren't theirs isn't being kind. Where is the kindness towards the other people involved? Why should, for example, gay men lose their safe space, because someone who identifies as a man decides they need to be part of it?

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T19:26:27+00:00

It's like someone has a gene for being tall, but the gene is not expressed so they end up being short. Are they actually tall or short?

In this situation, they're short. But going with the trans analogy, if they wore high heels they'd still be short.

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T19:22:56+00:00

I find it hard to imagine a gay man would find a transwoman that transitioned far enough attractive. Same for lesbians with transmen. IMO for these instances maybe we should create new sexuality names. People are so keen on creating new sexualities anyway. Maybe we should call people who feel legitimely attracted to transmen/transwomen pansexual, or something else.

These same men that date "trans women" would never date a "cis" man. They say, "I would suck a dick if it's on a trans woman, because they are women, but can't if it's on a man"

Internalized homophobia is hard to fight. These men can't accept the idea of being anything other than straight. It's easier to justify yourself for sucking a dick if you .

Why is it much more common for "straight" men to be obsessed with transwomen? Why don't we see gay men having the same obsession over transmen? That's easy: if a man finds women attractive that is socially accepted, he doesn't need to justify himself by resorting to transmen.

We're already attracted to someone way before we learn what's in someone's pants.

We can also be attracted just by seeing their faces and lose attraction when we see their bodies. We might find someone attractive and lose attraction when finding out their age. On the opposite direction, someone who we find uninteresting might become more attractive after we see their bodies or their genitals. There are many situations that make us get or lose attraction.

The idea that we can't be attracted to genitals is very puritanical. Glory holes exist, gay men go there just to appreciate the dick coming from the hole. People post pics of their genitals on the internet for other people to enjoy.

The whole thing about femboys is hilarious. Femboys don't even identify as women. They are men, men with dicks who identify as men. Twinks exist, and many gay men like twinks. Some don't. Some gay men like masculine men, some like feminine men, some like both.

Also a reminder that people can become more/less masculine or feminine as time passes. You can't really think that a guy is straight while his boyfriend is shaved, but then become gay when his boyfriend decides to grow a beard.

Activists talk so much about respecting people identities, yet this whole model of sexuality based on secondary characteristics doesn't respect identities. A man who says he is straight because he only likes femboys is invalidating the manhood of the men he feels attracted. He is saying that men are only men if they're masculine enough.

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T18:51:30+00:00

Also, don’t want to get a gay space closed down.

I mean, after they turned a gay space straight, why would they want to close it down? They already got what they wanted.

And we are always being told that they don't want to force themselves into us. This is an explicit space where people are nude. If people go there under the assumption there will only be men inside, having to see female naked bodies and genitals is basically being flashed against consent.

We are also led to believe transmen pass so well and are exactly like real men. Yet they continuously face these situations because it's obvious to other people that they aren't men.

I'm tired of being told "this never happens" while this keeps happening.

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T18:41:34+00:00

Sometimes I think we should post this kind of ambiguous stuff on some Reddit subs, you know? There are many Reddit subs dedicated to posting awful situations involving incels, homophobia, etc.

Someone could, for example, post a screenshot of something incel-like said by a TRA, but without mentioning who posted it. After the post gets popular enough and people are calling out the issue of what the "incel" said, then the poster can reveal that it was originally posted by a TRA.

I think most people in theory would be reasonable enough to see the issues with the type of content we discuss here. But the moment they see who created the content, then they rationalize it in a way that they can agree with abusive or homophobic narratives.

Frankly I think we should start moving in this direction. I've experienced this many times, trying to show friends some awful stuff said by TRAs and they immediately tried to justify it when they saw who said it. I think they'd be much more likely to agree it's awful if they assumed it was said by a straight guy or something.

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T18:30:41+00:00

It's an old law though, so not exactly woke. More of a reflex of a time when no one making laws thought about same-sex couples, and the norm was for people to marry and women to do all the house work. Nowadays gay/lesbian couples are a more obvious reality, many people simply don't marry, and straight couples are often expected to share house work.

By the way, retirement plans are mostly paid by the government. So it's a bit frustrating to know my taxes help pay retirement while I get to retire later for being a man.

Just to be clear, I don't think women/feminists need to fight for it. It's not their cause, and I'm fine with that. I'm of the position that people don't need to fight for causes that aren't theirs (although obviously if people wanna help it's welcome). However, I'm not fine with people who try to justify it to keep men's retirement age higher. We have a saying here: "if you won't help, then don't hinder".

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T15:59:15+00:00

Brazil. It's law. Women retire at 60, men retire at 65, though recent law changes will change it to 62/65. You can retire earlier depending on how many years you worked and other factors (and depending on the situation you also get less money for your retirement), but even if you retire earlier it follows this proportion between sexes.

The justification is that women retire earlier as a compensation for sexism. It considers that women do double the job since they also do house work. Obviously there are many issues with that, considering that not every woman is straight/married, and not every man is straight/married.

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T15:25:54+00:00

Ah, yeah, that fun guessing game. Who said that, a conservative homophobe or a TRA? Who said that, an incel or a TRA?

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T15:22:50+00:00

Checked the account and they retweeted this recently:

Very real wish that people didnt treat being attracted to men in a Homosexual way was like..lesser in queer fandom spaces. It feels! Bad!

Ah, the hypocrisy.

Also worthy mentioning the person has almost 1300 followers. Sure, not a lot compared to popular twitter users, but it's 3/4 of the people subscribed on this sub. These homophobes have big audiences.

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T15:18:47+00:00

I mean, if gay men wanted to see straight porn just to look at the men they could just watch regular straight porn instead. Many more options too.

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T15:17:10+00:00

In my country men retire 5 years later than women, men get much shorter paternity leaves, and conscription is mandatory for men at age 18.

Curiously, I've never heard about transmen claiming to be men in any of these situations. I wonder why!

8bitgay · 2021-02-13T02:23:40+00:00

The rule, which was never finalized, could’ve resulted in transgender women being put in men’s homeless shelters.

I find it interesting how in these examples they always mention transwomen. So, uh, would they also find it terrible if transmen had to go to women's homeless shelters?

You know, I'd love to see more data on transmen. Because as far as I see we never hear about transmen in these situations. I never see transmen demanding to go to male prisons, to male shelters, to compete in male sports, etc.

8bitgay · 2021-02-12T14:42:55+00:00

your forgetting bottom surgery and strap ons

Stop heterosplaining us, we didn't forget about these, we simply don't care about them.

Most of the transmen I know are objectively more masculine looking than I am... and I'm pretty much a muscle bear. All that testosterone really buffs them up and brings out the body hair.

Interesting that when gay guys are naturally masculine they're called masc4masc and problematic. But transmen being overly masculine because of hormones is seem as a quality.

8bitgay · 2021-02-12T14:38:15+00:00

I wish this type of view got more popular. They're homophobic against us anyway, so at least be homophobic while promoting a split so we LGB people can be left alone.

8bitgay · 2021-02-12T14:30:41+00:00

They have this weird mix of being too explicit/fetishizing and too puritanical. On one hand they won't stop talking about how gay men love their front holes, how lesbians love girldick.

On the other hand, in their handbook there is no possibility of gay men being interested in dick. Sex is irrelevant, the important part is the pure love towards gender. The idea that some gay men go to glory holes just to suck dicks is impossible to their views, since it implies that we could be attracted to male parts without caring about how the person attached to the dick identifies.

8bitgay · 2021-02-12T14:21:42+00:00

Yeah, I disagree with the previous comment. I can't say if it's the same in other countries, but in mine I feel like we got pockets of acceptance. When you got a social bubble of people that are LGB or allies, it's easy to feel like everything is fine. However, it is very easy to notice that homophobia still exists whenever I get out of these pockets. Sometimes getting outside of these pockets makes me feel offended, sometimes it makes me feel actually threatened. I haven't experienced actual physical violence, but I have experienced random people threatening to assault me just because I didn't look straight enough to them.

And the thing is that even these pockets of acceptance don't accept us well anymore. Now they only accept us as long as they think we'd date trans people, among other homophobic "rules" we have to follow.

8bitgay · 2021-02-12T14:12:31+00:00

Cheering for you, hope you manage to come out eventually. The LGBT community might be full of TRAs, but there are still plenty of actual LGB people out there. Feel free to send a message if you need someone to talk!

8bitgay · 2021-02-12T04:10:31+00:00

If no is a full sentence, then accept it. Don't say you're fine with accepting rejection and then go on to make a long rant about how the other person was wrong in rejecting you.

Other than that, there's a lot to unpack in this rant but I'm tired.

8bitgay · 2021-02-12T04:02:46+00:00

Yeah, when trans people are forever whining about "chasers", why should they think that gay MEN wanna be fetishized, either? It's insulting and demoralizing.

This is so obvious yet I never realized it. But you're right. We're being fetishized for our ability of validating them.

8bitgay · 2021-02-12T03:56:08+00:00

Frankly I'm not American, so my view is biased in this way.

8bitgay · 2021-02-11T17:02:55+00:00

If you changed the meme from the clown makeup to that galaxy brain meme it could easily be posted on TRA subs.

8bitgay · 2021-02-11T17:00:56+00:00

Frankly at this point I find incels less dangerous. Straight male incels tend to keep themselves to their own communities, instead of getting into our communities and peer pressuring peeople to agree with them.

Not to mention that they at least are honest about being incels, unlike the other types of incels who say the same stuff and them go on gaslighting to pretend they aren't incels.

8bitgay · 2021-02-10T21:41:02+00:00

I've said this on this sub already, but: gay men can buy dildos too lol I dunno why transmen always use dildos as a "gotcha" argument as if they were the only ones that have access to dildos.

First of all, dildos and real dicks aren't the same thing. That should be obvious to anyone. But sure, even if you're into dildos, if you're a gay man there's no reason why you'd want to play with dildos with a woman. You can either play with another man who has a real dick, or play by yourself.

8bitgay · 2021-02-10T14:37:18+00:00

Chris Crocker is very much a cis man, and if you look for his twitter he's there doing gay porn. He looks more masculine nowadays.

Back then he was an androgynous guy, or gender non-conforming as some say. Don't TRAs get tired of trying to make everything about them? They say they accept GNC people, but they only use GNC to pretend GNC is part of TQ+.

8bitgay · 2021-02-09T17:41:02+00:00

I noticed that, but the replies of this thread at least seem to be supportive towards actual lesbians.

As for gay men most subs are already on the side of "obviously gay men wanna have sex with transmen". The notable exception is AskGaybros. But frankly that's pretty much the only good part about AGB, I wouldn't go there expecting a mature conversation with friendly people.

8bitgay · 2021-02-09T14:31:46+00:00

Here in Brazil Big Brother is airing, and it's hugely popular. Some of the contestants are social media activists, and they do the same thing inside the show as people do on Twitter, bullying and harassing other contestants. Twitter users are hating the harassers, but I find it hypocritical since the same people do the same thing on social media.

People don't fully separate their online personas from real life. Of course, exceptions exist. Someone might be super liberal online but then live in a very conservative town, so they keep this liberal persona only to the internet.

I think things can be more comfortable if you already have a partner and a close circle of friends, so you can avoid other "LGBT" groups in real life. But for us who are looking for dates/friends the situation is different.

8bitgay · 2021-02-09T13:58:04+00:00

I've been hanging out with liberal cishet people a lot in the past years because they accept me more. Since they're also monosexual they understand my sexuality in a way that not everyone in the queer community does right now. I'm not attracted to someone's gender, but to their sex/visible sexual characteristics, and all the cishets I know are the same.

It's refreshing to read this type of comment on Reddit. This seems like a good sub, or at least the thread got good replies. I feel like there are no subs like this for gay men right now.

8bitgay · 2021-02-08T23:14:19+00:00

Honestly in my opinion straight men shouldn't be welcomed on a sub called actuallesbians

What about if a transwoman who still identifies as a cis straight man goes to the sub while on her process of self discovery?

... No, I don't actually believe that, but they do. And the double standard is absurd to me. You can't both say that men are bad and not allowed in your space and that anyone can be a lesbian and be included in your space if they identify this way.

8bitgay · 2021-02-08T17:50:13+00:00

I find it funny because they always say how toxic men are, how women are victimized... But then the women involved in the issue go and say they aren't actually women.

Also it's interesting how the Wikipedia article managed to hide all mentions to Alec.

8bitgay · 2021-02-08T03:59:52+00:00

I've said it before and I'll say it again: they know we can also buy dildos, right? If a gay guy wanna play with a plastic dick he can either do it by himself or have another guy (who also has a penis) do it for him. No need for transmen to be involved.

8bitgay · 2021-02-05T22:44:29+00:00

Yeah, it's almost funny that they say that the WLW community was never a place for lesbians. No one ever thought that communities that call themselves WLW/MLM would be spaces for actual lesbians/gay men lol

8bitgay · 2021-02-05T21:38:24+00:00

I find it interesting how you can't make any type of criticism towards TQ+ without being compared to stuff like white supremacy.

But people being homophobic, threatening LGB people, harassing LGB people, etc.? Nah, that is fine.

8bitgay · 2021-02-05T20:18:30+00:00

I saw a fair few complaining about how this subreddit was no longer safe for them or catered to "Real Lesbians".

So just as a fucking reiteration, TERFs THIS IS NOT YOUR HOUSE!

"I saw people complaining this place was no longer safe for real lesbians, so to be clear: it isn't"

8bitgay · 2021-02-05T01:42:50+00:00

Frankly I have no opinion about JKR either way because I don't follow her, I didn't read everything she said, at best I read snippets of it. I can only say I agree with some opinions I've read in isolated tweets, like when she said "If sex isn't real, there's no same-sex attraction".

I'm not enlightened on the subject of JKR and I don't pretend to be.

But that's the difference. I've seen many people condemning her while they are even less aware of her ideas than me. People aren't criticizing her because they've personally read something offensive that she said, people are criticizing her because they were told second hand that she said something bad. Most people only heard others putting a label on her and started hating her based on that.

8bitgay · 2021-02-04T03:45:58+00:00

Going by that logic then bisexuals must be non-binary trapped in binary bodies or something.

8bitgay · 2021-02-03T23:21:51+00:00

I agree with a lot of what you say.

Like I said though, we can't pretend we don't know what they do either. I've seen another comment on this sub today saying something like "we just said transwomen aren't women and got banned"... Is anyone really surprised by that? We might not agree with them, but this is one of their most offensive things in their handbook, one of the quickest ways to get banned from almost any community or social platform nowadays.

This is the kind of the thing that makes them shut us down in seconds. Sorry, but no one that agrees with them even slightly is gonna bother reading your argument after you say "transwomen aren't women". And as long as we can't bring people to our side the situation will never change.

So frankly we need to do things different, to be smarter with how we present our views, how we try to argument. Maybe we'll also get banned for making sensible comments about how we're being harassed by people who can't accept the individual right to consent. Maybe we'll get banned for showing people the countless instances of TQ+ activists threatening and harassing LGB people. But I'm sure to outside viewers this type of argument will create much more good will than people who get banned for saying trans men aren't real men.

8bitgay · 2021-02-03T23:09:00+00:00

trans or gender non-conforming

These are two wildly different things though. And I'm not criticizing you, obviously, just criticizing the view you mentioned.

Yeah, the indifference towards social gender roles and customs could easily lead into expressing yourself in a way don't conform to society norms. But that is very different from actually identifying as TQ+. If anything, identifying as TQ+ is the opposite: you care so much about social gender roles and customs that you need to put yourself in a different label so that you're allowed to express yourself in another way.

8bitgay · 2021-02-03T22:00:04+00:00

If a transman comes saying that gay men should date him, we don't need to ban him saying "gay men don't date transmen". We can ban him mentioning the issue of consent, without needing to mention the words trans or gay. And it's a honest justification too, after all, the whole situation of trans people pressuring LGB to date them is (among other things) about them not respecting consent.

And I dunno, I think there's space for improvement in what I said. Maybe be a bit explicit. Make a subtle reference in the description of the sub, something like "a space for people who are attracted to the same sex".

What we need to avoid is terms like cis, natural, biological, etc. Don't deny that transwomen/men are real women/men. You guys can't still be surprised when someone says this and gets banned. This doesn't mean agreeing with them, but maybe being indifferent.

And maybe this hypothetical sub gets banned too, but I think that "this sub got banned because there were only LGB people posting" looks worse for Reddit than "this sub got banned because it said in the rules only cis people could post".

Maybe my idea isn't good either, I dunno. But what I keep seeing is people trying to create subs that are very obviously LGB-only, and they keep getting banned. This isn't working. So like I said, I think we have two options here. Either we try to make our own space that actually avoids using language that would give them reason to banning... Or we get more vocal about it and try to get a bigger audience to realize Reddit is homophobic and routinely bans safe spaces for sexual minorities while allowing other groups to harass LGB people.

8bitgay · 2021-02-03T21:29:24+00:00

I immediately thought of "not like the other girls" too, even made a comment about it before reading yours.

It's always funny when I think the same as another comment here before reading the other comment. It really shows how obvious some things are yet they pretend not to see.

8bitgay · 2021-02-03T21:27:32+00:00

They really think like Not Like The Other Girls, right?

"All the other girls love being oppressed, following the stereotypes of patriarchy, and buying pretty dresses. But not me, so I'm obviously not a girl."

8bitgay · 2021-02-03T21:20:50+00:00

Do they realize they’re allowed to have LGB groups without being cunts about it?

No, we can't, otherwise they wouldn't try to get all LGB groups banned lol

Like, ok yeah you want a space where the only topic is sexuality, that’s great, make one, but don’t try erase trans people from the community.

"You're allowed to have LGB-only spaces, just remember you have to include T"

8bitgay · 2021-02-03T21:18:51+00:00

Frankly, I think we should create less explicit subs. Subs that don't mention TQ+ whatsoever. Neither to include them nor to criticize them. No mention to words like cis or trans. Avoid acronyms like LGB. Make sure all the mods are on the same page, and all of them are against anti-LGB rhetorics.

Maybe at the start the sub will get lots of posts about TQ+ issues. Just delete them. LGB people will gradually start using the sub more while TQ+ posts just keep getting deleted.

I like subs like this one here where we can discuss all these ideas openly. But on platforms like Reddit we have to be smart. We already know subs that are explicitly same-sex only get banned. The two solutions I see is either get more vocal about Reddit's attitude towards semi-sex spaces, or create a same-sex space that is less obvious about it. Or both.

8bitgay · 2021-02-03T21:00:51+00:00

Terms that are based in the binary

If you're a woman who identifies as demiboy and your partner is a man who identifies as genderflux, you special non-binary people will still have all the rights of straight couples. Rights that in many countries are denied to same sex couples, while in some they were only recently achieved.

So yeah, of course these terms are based in the binary.

8bitgay · 2021-02-02T22:39:54+00:00

"no one actually says ...", "no one is telling you to ...", and any other variants.

They're manipulative sentences that people always use to pretend that they didn't just say what they just said.

8bitgay · 2021-02-02T22:31:20+00:00

Yeah, I think they look kinda masculine on this specific picture, if you focus on their faces. Especially compared to the other people around them who are much more obviously women.

This doesn't mean I think they'd pass as men in other pictures, especially if you saw them next to cis men.

8bitgay · 2021-02-02T15:18:41+00:00

I do, however, feel terrible for the population of actual autistic individuals who have been dragged into this whole mess

Me too. And I feel this even in this sub, when people start relating autism to being TRA. Maybe someday some study will prove a link. But so far, just because TRAs say on social media they're autistic doesn't mean they really are.

8bitgay · 2021-02-02T15:08:37+00:00

Right? When we say TRAs are too limited by traditional gender roles they don't accept it. Yet they're so limited by traditional gender roles that a product not being marketed to their "gender" becomes a huge issue.

Meanwhile I, a cis man, have bought products and even clothings from women's sections. And somehow this never made my gender change!

8bitgay · 2021-02-02T04:41:29+00:00

They think they need to state that these people have periods because they think it'll come as a surprise.

But you know, except for the 2 bearded ones if I saw any of these people with clothes I'd just assume they're butch lesbians. It's no surprise that butch women have periods.

8bitgay · 2021-02-01T20:03:25+00:00

Homophobes often said things like "now we have to accept gay people, soon we'll have to marry them". And obviously it was a slippery slope. We just wanted (and still want) basic rights, we want to not be assaulted and harassed, to have the same civil rights... LGB people never fought for the "right" to have sex with straight people.

But with TQ+ activism it isn't a slippery slope. "Soon we'll have to date them" is already a reality in many communities.

This is just one of many ways in which we aren't going through situations that are anywhere similar. Homophobes used slippery slopes to condemn us, meanwhile people are raising valid criticism against TQ+ activism based on the real evidence that they see.

8bitgay · 2021-02-01T14:20:48+00:00

Another issue is that Brazil was catholic in majority. But for the past decades neopentecostal churches have been on a rise. And they're much more homophobic and much more vocal about it. They own one of the biggest free-to-air tv channels and aren't afraid of using it to promote the church and their homophobic ideas. Not to mention the highly homophobic president of the country and his followers.

So overall the situation is weird. Acceptance of LGB is better than it used to be, same sex marriage is legal, but there's also been a rise in movements and groups that promote homophobia.

The biggest tv channel here was making shows with very homophobic jokes, slurs, stereotypes, catchphrases, etc. just a few years ago. They aired a rerun of a 2011 soap opera last year for example, that had a central gay character who was this weird stereotype used only for comedy. It's bizarre how quickly they shifted from making fun of gay men to promoting twitter social activism. They currently have a daily morning talk show where they regularly invite this type of activists.

The whole thing with the guy being harassed is that there's a lot of hate towards gay men, pure and simple. They were just grasping at straws to find a reason to invalidate a gay man experiencing homophobia. The part I called cynical is because some TQ+ activists even went to say afterwards "we talked with him and he explained to us that the construction worker is white and has money, so stop harassing him". Well, good to know that harassing is only bad after TQ+ activists judged it that way! These are the same people who are denouncing everything as transphobia, as invalidating, but to them it's unacceptable when a gay man shares an actual situation of homophobia.

And frankly this is why I'm drifting apart from most of my gay friends/acquaintances. They care so much about other activisms and social causes, but when it comes to situations like these of TQ+ people going against gay men they just shrug.

8bitgay · 2021-02-01T13:48:20+00:00

People love calling things slippery slopes. And sure, sometimes they are slippery slopes, but sometimes they're just reasonable analysis of patterns.

8bitgay · 2021-02-01T13:44:50+00:00

"We owe everything to the people who fought for us at Stonewall!"

"So should we listen to gay men who took part at Stonewall?"

"... no."

8bitgay · 2021-01-31T02:54:13+00:00

Wall of text ahead.

Brazilian activists quickly try to copy what American activists say/do (not just on "LGBTQ+" issues). So the community quickly turned into a nocive space for LGB people. A sad thing is that old-school homophobia is still pretty much visible too. The same tv channel that airs woke tv shows nowadays also airs reruns of shows they made just a few years ago that are very homophobic. This was especially visible last year since they started airing more reruns to cover for the shows that had to halt production. Homophobia is certainly better than it was decades ago, but it isn't uncommon to experience homophobia if you walk through different spaces, be it the "casual" homophobic slurs or the most violent type like threatening and physical aggression.

People quickly started using terms like queer and LGBTQ+. Which are already problematic in USA, but are even more bizarre considering that the word queer simply didn't exist in Portuguese. If the identity is so valid, how come so many people only realized they were queer after an English term became popular like 5 years ago? If you're really queer, wouldn't it make more sense to create a Portuguese term to describe yourself long before that?

The first gay kiss on free-to-air TV only happened in 2014, after decades of gay activism, after decades of the topic being discussed in society. Meanwhile TQ+ characters and themes became present on TV far more fast, as the topic began to gain traction. It isn't uncommon to see cases of homophobia being called lgbtphobia - which is even sadder since only recently the media started discussing homophobia in a serious manner.

A proeminent social media situation that happened recently was when a famous gay youtuber was shipped with a woman during a stream. His response was to say he likes sucking dick. That was enough for a big controversy to start, for him to receive attacks, for him to be accused of being transphobic, etc. People understood that when he refused her for her lack of a dick he was also refusing transmen as a whole. And as far as I know he didn't retract himself nor apologize for it, which gave me a lot of respect for him.

Another even more absurd situation happened months before when a gay engineer shared on twitter that one of the construction workers sent him messages calling him a homophobic slur. He was thinking about reporting it to HR and lots of people started harassing him for it. People started calling the engineer racist and elitist since they assumed the worker was black and poor (yeah, highly hypocritical for them to say that considering they made this assumption with 0 knowledge about the worker). They literally said that the damage he could cause to the homophobe was worse than any homophobia. People of all letters harassed him, including LBG. But popular TQ+ users were especially vocal against him, harassing him for thousands of followers to see, being extremely cynical about the situation and pretending that they never said anything against him when people called them out on it.

Basically, the community is the most toxic against gay men. Do you know the posts people make on this sub of TRAs saying some crazy threatening violent stuff like "TERFs need to be beaten"? It's like that, except it's way more common and well accepted. In USA TRAs have to defend themselves by saying "it's just a few trolls saying that", here they're so comfortable with saying these things that they don't even have to say that.

Lesbians usually suffer less attacks from the community - though don't look strange or you're called a TERF. Bisexuals tend to be seen by the community in a better view than LG, and it's common to see people saying biphobia is actually worse than homophobia. Though of course it's implied that bisexuals would date trans people, so if you say you wouldn't date them the situation would quickly change.

8bitgay · 2021-01-31T01:57:44+00:00

Yeah, I think many truscums believe in some sort of special threshold where the rule changes. If someone doesn't even try to pass as the opposite sex they agree with us: LG people won't feel attracted to these people. This at least is a more sane view than what TRAs in general believe.

But many truscums (though not all) believe that at some point this isn't true anymore. To them, if you transition enough and pass enough, then LG people have no reason to not feel attracted.

Still, overall I think we can at least have discussions with truscums, try to present our points, reason with them, etc. But if they dislike what TRAs do, if they dislike tucutes so much... Then they should be vocal about it. I know that truscums are often despised in LGBTQ+ communities but if they were more vocal it'd be harder to ignore them. People who dismiss everything we say because we're "cis" can't as easily dismiss them.

8bitgay · 2021-01-30T22:34:08+00:00

23:59 "Well, you might dislike the word queer but it's not a slur, it's been reclaimed. Lots of people identify as queer and you have to respect them."

00:00 "Yeah, the word homosexual is offensive, just because some gay people use it doesn't make it right. People who identify as it should use other words to call themselves."

8bitgay · 2021-01-30T22:29:39+00:00

I really hope the teacher just created this question to generate a debate and maybe be able to teach about consent. Not in a loaded "you're wrong if you answer no" way.

During high school I wasn't dating anyone at all. It'd be bizarre to answer this question.

8bitgay · 2021-01-30T19:22:25+00:00

They want sex, but more than sex they want validation. The people who'd actually be ok with dating them wouldn't validate them enough.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T22:46:13+00:00

This reminds me of a post I saw on a gay sub some days ago.

OP was mentioning how he likes men with big tits. Many comments saying they felt the same. Then some FtM came to say that he felt so validated seeing how many gay men like big tits. Yeah, no. Big male tits/pecs are entirely different from big female breasts. Liking one doesn't mean you'll like the other.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T20:52:49+00:00

And now the Democrats are trying to pass anti-gay, anti-women, pro-TQ+ Equality Act in the US on a federal level (they've passed similar laws already on some local and state levels)

I'm not American. Could you expand on why the Equality Act (or any other recent acts) is anti-LGB? I tried googling about these acts that the subs has been criticizing, but it's hard to understand since, first, most sources won't care about how anything impacts LGB people anyway, and second, I'm not aware enough of how some American systems might work.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T20:27:16+00:00

It depends on what the job is: if a transgender identified male is a TSA screener, or in another job where a woman will be forced to allow him to touch her private areas, and if the law prevents the woman from asking for a female screener, that's going to be objectionable to many people.

I mean, yeah, I was talking about more general situations. And what I meant wasn't even only about TQ+ people. Lots of LGB people are also afraid of losing their jobs because they present themselves in a way that doesn't conform to gender stereotypes.

That's a hard thing about nowadays, you have to account for these specific situations. I remember years ago when people could easily say they support basic rights, while also being against the presence of transwomen in female sports. This wasn't considered controversial or transphobic.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T19:47:01+00:00

I'm for basic rights to everyone. No one should lose their job or their house for changing their bodies or dressing in a gender non conforming way.

But this discussion turned very quickly into things like "same sex attraction is transphobic". If this is considered transphobic, then whatever.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T19:39:53+00:00

they define us only by stigma (at best, kinda like how they lump every non-white person into one group defined by lack of whiteness)

And even that is contradictory. I mean, do they really believe there's a huge stigma against demisexuals? Or do they believe a "queer" couple (that is actually just a regular straight couple) was ever stigmatized? In one hand they try to lump us together because of stigma, but on other hand they get mad if you point out that queer+ groups simply don't go through the same struggles.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T19:30:59+00:00

The thing I like about this list is that it got links for everything it claims. TRAs often try to flee the argument by saying "nobody says that!". They'll do it even when they themselves just said that, so the less chance we give them to say this, the better.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T19:28:16+00:00

The UK’s biggest HIV and AIDS charity was for the first time not promoting National HIV Testing Week to the 55,000-strong readership of the longest-running gay men’s magazine in the country, even though many of those readers, especially younger gay men, remain in a high-risk group. We were then told that the charity may be in touch in April regarding running a piece about its new transgender sexual-health resources.

That alone says a lot.

On another hand, thanks to this controversy now I know about a gay magazine that is seemingly actually pro-gay. Good.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T15:36:09+00:00

Anyone that identifies as a "political lesbian" worries me. [...] Radical feminist that are heterosexual, but choose to be lesbians as not to support the patriarchy.

I mean, I'm also against the idea of political lesbians.

But it's hilarious to see TRAs criticizing the idea of straight people who choose to identify as lesbians.

Also OP says "I got downvoted". They didn't say they were harassed, that they read offensive things, nothing. They were downvoted. Apparently downvoting TRAs is all it takes to ban a sub now.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T15:33:25+00:00

What is even the point of having a sub for a creator if you adamantly disagree with everything they say? This whole "I hate this person and everything they stand for, but also I can't stop promoting their work and giving them money" is so bizarre.

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T14:19:41+00:00

Yeah. If you can't even have some basic definition of what the label means, what is even the point of using it?

8bitgay · 2021-01-29T02:26:55+00:00

I have seen the degradation of San Francisco with my own two eyes

As a non-American, could you expand on that? I know San Francisco is popular for having been popular among gay men, so I'm curious to know what happened to the city.

8bitgay · 2021-01-28T15:08:42+00:00

"People don't use their gender identity just to become a special minority, that isn't a thing"

but also

"I won't transition because then I'd be a white man and that's bad"

8bitgay · 2021-01-28T14:54:03+00:00

Ah, yes, the most persecuted people: the heteroromantic demisexuals. They've went through so much struggle.

I don't even think this type of stuff is out of malice. OP was trying to be inclusive. But doing it without critical thinking can easily become offensive. It's like if a hurricane completely destroyed one city but then instead of talking about this city you keep saying "we need to support USA as a whole", completely avoiding to talk about the specific group of people that was affected.

8bitgay · 2021-01-28T01:53:05+00:00

That's a weird reply to the previous comment. Nobody has to "handle" other people's problems, in a general way, whether people involved are male or female.

But if you're part of a school faculty/staff, handling the students' problems is literally your job.

Also I dunno why you think only boys bully their gay classmates. FtMs wouldn't try to claim gay spaces if homophobic women didn't exist.

8bitgay · 2021-01-27T21:38:59+00:00

Right? Not to mention Martha died in 1992. Sure, the transgender cause wasn't so popular back then, but someone like Martha was certainly aware of it.

8bitgay · 2021-01-27T15:48:52+00:00

The comment you quoted is so interesting. If you posted it in most LGBT subs you'd certainly be called a TERF for it.

8bitgay · 2021-01-27T15:46:40+00:00

Yesterday I came across a post by a trans woman claiming to be a lesbian

So, is it fine to doubt that transwomen aren't real lesbians now?

8bitgay · 2021-01-27T15:44:16+00:00

Not a single argument, but I find it interesting how often TRAs contradict each other. For example:

In our LGB definition sexuality depends on sex. Gay men want men of the male sex.

For them, initially, gender is all. The way you identify is the most important thing and defines also your placement in relation to people's sexualities. So if you identify as man, you're a man. In this definition, gay men want men - and everyone who identifies as man fits this.

This leaves large gaps in a TRA mindset, but maybe the largest gap has the non-binary shape. After all, non-binary people (and other neo-gender identities) don't identify as man. So now gay men want masculinity - everyone who performs masculinity fits this, regardless of identifying as man.

Obviously this invalidates men who aren't masculine enough. Ironically, it even invalidates non-masculine transmen.

There are more versions of this "gay men don't feel attracted to genitals, they actually feel attracted to X" argument, and they all keep contradicting each other. But these 2 are the ones I remember right now. Feel free to reply adding more of these arguments that you might have heard!

8bitgay · 2021-01-27T15:35:22+00:00

The Martha thing is interesting because they love saying how you must respect how people identify and the gender identity they claim... Yet when Martha claims he's a man and not trans obviously they must decide for him otherwise.

8bitgay · 2021-01-27T15:34:40+00:00

when hearing them talk

I've watched a few transman "gay" porn videos. Not a fun experience but in the end of the day I want to be able to understand what I'm criticizing.

Many of these videos start with the bodies (so not showing faces) and frankly I just thought they were regular straight porn. It often just looks like the guy is having sex with a flat chested woman. You only realize it's supposed to be "gay" porn when the camera moves to show the face.

But no matter what, all of them have voices that are so clearly of a woman. And sure, many men also have feminine voices, and obviously there's the stereotype of gay men with a feminine voice. But still, the difference between a feminine male voice and a female voice is quite obvious.

There's also the opposite situation. Many "straight" videos of a guy having sex with a transwoman looks like the guy is having sex with a shaved twink, if you look at the scenes that don't show the faces.

8bitgay · 2021-01-27T15:26:44+00:00

You know, I like the contrast of a masculine man being also submissive.

But submissive transmen (as "himbo" seems to imply) on the other side... I just feel awkward, they're just comforming to society's idea that women should submit to men.

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T21:29:47+00:00

The guys who seek these prostitutes aren't GB men like us who are comfortable with their sexualities. They're men who are "straight" to the eyes of society, often married. They lived decades in the closet, and they can't admit even to themselves that they might be gay/bi.

You're right, there's nothing weird about same-sex attraction, but these men don't think the same.

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T21:17:05+00:00

Dude, I kid you not, this was gonna be the last paragraph of my comment but I ended up deleting it! With these exact words lol

But yeah. It's like straight homophobes who say "I don't care if youre gay just don't force it on everybody". And to them everything anyone does that might remind them that LGB people exist is "forcing it on everybody". You held hands with your boyfriend? You're forcing it. You mentioned your same-sex partner when asked if you have a partner? Forcing it.

It's funny that the correlation is so clear that you also made the same link before I even mentioned it lol

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T18:55:49+00:00

And the thing is that on social media you keep seeing people making this argument of "so if gay men are only into people with dicks would you have sex with a transwoman???". No, I wouldn't, but many other gay men have, because of this closet situation we're discussing.

I've actually seen many interviews with transwomen who work in prostitution. And something they always say is that they wouldn't do the surgery because they'd lose most of their clients if they didn't have a dick.

And it's funny because TRAs love to use prostitute transwomen as data for their argument (since these are the trans people who are most at risk of suffering violence), but they never listen to what these transwomen actually have to say. At least in my experience these transwomen are way more aware of the material reality of their bodies and their sexualities than any of these entitled straight people who try to force themselves into LGB communities.

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T18:35:43+00:00

Not to mention that it's not like NB people only self identify as NB. They claim that others (both real people and characters) are NB all the time, precisely because of how much they enforce gender stereotypes.

I love how TQ+ people pretend that they don't say to other people that they might be "eggs".

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T18:33:19+00:00

I wonder how they'd react if people started doing it with race.

"No, I'm not black. I'm actually a different race, because unlike them I don't follow those stereotypes".

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T18:26:55+00:00

Before I buy anything remotely gay or lesbian, whether art or whatever from Etsy I check the shop to make sure I don’t see anything homophobic or misogynistic or overly into gender. If they’re just supportive of LGBT generally OK fine. If they make gay people look like a joke, no thanks.

I don't buy stuff from Etsy but whenever I find new artists who post LGB content I do the same. And yeah, it happens. Some people post gay art with one hand while with the other they're making a huge rant about how gay men are transphobic. So kudos for doing your research!

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T18:24:17+00:00

If I had the money it'd be cool to start an apparel company only with such products. Gay pride, lesbian pride, bi pride. And products with the original gay rainbow flag, without the added stripes.

And for plausible deniability I could always say that I don't have TQ+ pride products because it'd be immoral as a cis person to appropriate their fight for my own personal profit.

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T18:17:24+00:00

Gay men are being told that being a cis gay man makes you the worst oppressor ever. It isn't so surprising some men "solve" it by simply claiming they aren't men anymore.

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T18:15:35+00:00

He doesn't want to be seen as a man... Yet he goes to a gay dating app to search for men who are into men. ok

Why isn't he looking for the pan men that TRAs love so much?

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T15:54:53+00:00

The relevant part is "keep it a secret" IMO.

I mean, yeah, I know lots of cis men have sex with transwomen in secret. Because they're actually gay/bi men in the closet who have sex with transwomen as a way to fulfill their homosexual desires while also being able to justify to themselves that "it's not really gay".

8bitgay · 2021-01-26T15:48:59+00:00

Yeah, what do they consider "yelling it from the rooftops"? Because what I see is, for example, transpeople coming to gay/lesbian communities, asking if we would date them, and then getting mad when they hear a no. Is it yelling from the rooftops when you give a honest answer to people who insist on questioning you? On the other hand, I've never heard about LGB going to trans communities to tell them we wouldn't date them. And I'm sure that if that happened we wouldn't stop hearing about it.

Recently a Brazilian gay youtuber suffered attacks for saying he likes sucking dicks. He didn't even mention transmen, he didn't even mention he doesn't date transmen. He only said that he likes sucking dicks, in response to people shipping him with a cis woman. Is that yelling from the rooftops too?

When LGB people reject trans people's advances in a private conversation, and then trans people go online to say how this interaction was transphobic and how their preferences are bad, was that rejection yelling from the rooftops too?

They might say it's fine to have "preferences" as long as you don't shout it towards people. But this entire notion is homophobic, and their bar for "yelling from the rooftops" is really low.

8bitgay · 2021-01-25T23:41:21+00:00

Yeah, this is kind of what I got from the article. He seems to be pro-TQ+, but it also seems like he's starting to peak. Maybe not peak against TRA mindset as a whole, but peak against their homophobia.

Unfortunately many LGB people still follow the TRA mindset. I think sometimes it can be valuable to try to show them how problematic the TRA rhetorics is while speaking their own language.

8bitgay · 2021-01-25T22:04:28+00:00

Eh. Again it's a case where I think this sub should give the article posted a read. The same thing happened yesterday when someone posted an article about pansexuality.

The writer is pro-TQ+. But at the same time he's speaking against TRA rhetorics:

When “cisgender” is weaponized, it’s used to shut down discussion, invalidate ideas, and silence voices.

By the way, check the comments. Transmen are mad at him. A comment made by a non-TRA:

I’m surprised you haven’t been called a TERF in the comments yet, because in part you are making precisely the gender critical feminist argument.

Like I said, the article is pro-TQ+. And no, gay men aren't less men. But the writer is showing how the TRA criticism of gay men contradicts their own mindset, and he's showing this from within the TRA mindset.

8bitgay