This is what 12 months of hormone replacement therapy can do isn't it amazing

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[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's annoying how you have done no research and just cite the same 2 or 3 studies and completely ignore any problems with them.

Okay. We disagree over the problems with them. You need to be a lot more specific about the problems with it.

Lets start with:

How many people of each study do you claim dropped out by suicide?

Then we can discuss the proportion of those we could plausibly attribute to regret, and what impact that would have on the regret proportion.

Lol... what? Do you have a response to what I told you or not?

It's not the sort of thing I'd watch, and the reviews say that it's sympathetic, so it's unlikely, if you were engaged in the show, that you'd discuss her situation with such negativity towards her. And I imagine that they wouldn't have misgendered her in the show. But you go straight to "him" as if you're not informed by the show.

So I've seen about 50% of the entire show, some from all seasons.

What did you feel watching it?

What did you get out of it?

I'm guessing you also defend doctors making the choice to surgically "assign a gender" (yes, that's where the term was co-opted from) to babies with ambiguous genitalia when nothing is genuinely wrong with them and their health is fine.

I believe that its best practise to wait, until you get an informed consent from the patient.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How many people of each study do you claim dropped out by suicide?

How am I supposed to know how many dropped out due to suicide? The point is that we don't know because the researchers never followed up. It could be ALL of them (unlikely). You won't even admit that we can't be sure.

Consider this study which shows that people who have undergone SRS are 20x more likely than the general population to commit suicide.

Then we can discuss the proportion of those we could plausibly attribute to regret, and what impact that would have on the regret proportion.

What? You want to make up some random story, guess all the percentages, and then make up some explanation to justify the percentages we guessed at? This is starting to sound like the conspiracy theorists here.

it's unlikely, if you were engaged in the show...

Are you accusing me of lying about watching the show for... argument points? Lol.

the reviews say that it's sympathetic... [you have] such negativity toward her

How unsympathetic and negative of me to point out the ways his family abuses and exploits him.

What did you feel watching it?

Is this a therapy session lol. It's a show about a gay boy who's mental and physical health is on the verge because of severe abuse by everyone he's ever loved.

I believe that its best practise to wait, until you get an informed consent from the patient.

The patient or the patient's parents?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Consider this study which shows that people who have undergone SRS are 20x more likely than the general population to commit suicide.

There's no doubt that transgender people are at increased risk of death by suicide.

But the evidence is that regret of gender affirming surgery is of the order of 1%. For that to be significantly wrong due to suicides being predominantly in the group that experiences regret, there would have to be an increase in suicides for transgender people who have undergone gender affirming surgery due to regret.

This would mean that the protective effect from surgery against suicide is also being underestimated by a similar amount.

The studies aren't great, as at 2 years ago, but it appears that gender affirming surgery significantly reduces suicides.

Given that that's all we know, that's enough for most parents.

Are you accusing me of lying about watching the show for... argument points? Lol.

Not at all. I'm wondering what you got out of watching them.

Is this a therapy session lol. It's a show about a gay boy who's mental and physical health is on the verge because of severe abuse by everyone he's ever loved.

Okay.

The patient or the patient's parents?

The patient. You need to know where the psychological gender it going to lie. You shouldn't surgically alter the sex of an infant. Or even a child.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You shouldn't surgically alter the sex of... a child.

But GnRH analogues and cross-sex hormones are okay? Why?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Again, for cross sex hormones, you need to know where the psychological gender is going to lie. You shouldn't biochemically alter the sex an infant. There are very rare cases where it's clear, but it the general case it's not done to a child either.

Puberty blockers allow the decision to be delayed until the diagnosis is certain. Many cases of gender dysphoria resolve on their own, and transitioning should be avoided until it's clear that it has to be treated.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

for cross sex hormones, you need to know where the psychological gender is going to lie

Alright so it's okay to give cross-sex hormones to a child as long as you know "where the psychological gender is going to lie". What exactly is a "psychological gender" and how do you determine "where it lies"?

Puberty blockers allow the decision to be delayed until the diagnosis is certain. Many cases of gender dysphoria resolve on their own, and transitioning should be avoided until it's clear that it has to be treated.

Most cases of gender dysphoria resolve themselves unless the child is given puberty blockers, in which case the vast majority of them go on to fully medically transition.

(Bone density loss is not reversible.)[https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/]

("Androgen deprivation therapy (Lupron/Zoladex) is associated with: 1) erectile dysfunction smooth muscle dysfunction and /or erectile tissue fibrosis damage which leads to venous leakage, 2) hypoactive sexual desire disorder which means no libido/interest and 3) orgasmic dysfunction.")[https://www.bumc.bu.edu/sexualmedicine/informationsessions/restoring-sexual-function-after-luproncancer-treatment/]

Adults who take lupron report cognitive dysfunction and show an increased risk of Alzheimer's.

I'll be here when a study comes out comparing it to a control group which proves it's safe. GnRH analogues are serious drugs and they're being used off-label. Wake me up when the FDA approves them for this use, and then we can talk more about the suffering that people who used it when it was actually approved.

The fact that you say it's reversible with no side effects is laughable because the data says otherwise for all other use-cases, and there is no long-term data for this specific use-case, nor were there ever even any clinical trials.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What exactly is a "psychological gender" and how do you determine "where it lies"?

I'm taking about whether the gender dysphoria will resolve on it's own, or whether there's something that you need to treat.

When you know that the gender dysphoria will worsen, you treat it. Otherwise you don't.

In the case of intersex kids, there's less literature, and it's not my field, but it's likely that they principles apply. You need them to get to a stage in the development that you can make a decent guess as to what's going to make for the best quality of life going forwards.

I don't mean "psychological gender" as a technical term. I just mean what is the best fit for their brain.

Bone density loss is not reversible.

That's right. Puberty blockers have side effects with negative consequences. As do most medicines.

GnRH analogues are serious drugs and they're being used off-label.

Are they?

In terms of dosage, treatment period or indication?

Jumping straight to hormones also has its risks. A lot of kids' GD resolves. There's a lot of concern about getting it right, and it's valid.

The fact that you say it's reversible

This is one of those "alternative facts" that drives conservatives' point of view in the US.

What I said was that they allow the decision to be delayed until the diagnosis is certain.