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[–]Alienhunter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

For this sort of forum there's no real need to attempt to "win someone over" beyond just giving your arguments. Debates are a better ground for explaining your side and why you believe it and why you believe the other side is wrong, or if not wrong, why you have come to a different conclusion to what they have not.

There are many positions that aren't reconcilable via debate and there isn't much point in attempting to change someone's mind. Your best option is simply to learn why they think the way they do and try to understand their logic even if you fundamentally disagree with it. Of course this also requires you to reevaluate your own positions as well and really know why you believe what you do.

Most people don't think that deeply and prefer the ideological purity route. It's far easier to simply dismiss others as evil rather than try to understand their motives. Their motives may indeed be evil in the end but rarely do people actively pursue agendas they themselves believe are evil. Everyone is the hero in their own story yadda yadda.

That's why logic and rational arguments are important tools for debate rather than emotion and assumption. These tools allow for communication with people from vastly different backgrounds where otherwise you might end up getting tangled up in preconceived ideas of "what the other person actually means" rather than what they think they mean. Just ask people to clarify their positions, if you think they are arguing in bad faith give them a chance to clarify as a way to save face. Even if bad faith is suspected never assume it outright, once someone who is arguing in bad faith is asked to clarify or define their argument in more detail they'll usually not give an answer or result to insults at which point it's safe to assume you've won the argument in the eyes of anyone watching worth giving a damn about, then you can simply bow out before they try to drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I will absolutely admit to arguing in bad faith with people. Some people are stupid. I enjoy watching them get frustrated when I counter their stupid arguments with arguments twice as stupid. Did aliens build the pyramids, maybe, but ask yourself this, why didn't they just build the pyramids underground?

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

if you think they are arguing in bad faith give them a chance to clarify as a way to save face. Even if bad faith is suspected never assume it outright, once someone who is arguing in bad faith is asked to clarify or define their argument in more detail they'll usually not give an answer

this sounds like a helpful approach.