why do people become shills etc?

submitted by panel30 from self.whatever

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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I don't like the casual undermining of Christianity that I've seen in general in some places

What about 'true believer' do you interpret as being negative? Do christians not truly believe? Do christians not want to convert people to their religion? I am simply talking about facts. I though christians thought these were positive things

Also, neither of you is reading very carefully. I specifically wrote

They aren't really 'shills' because they truly believe what they say, and aren't in it for financial gain.

I was saying that not everyone who appears to be a shill is a shill at all, that some of them really believe what appears to be shilling for a cause. I'm not sure what you interpret as being negative about christianity here. I am simply stating that like religion, people can strongly believe in other things, and promote an agenda not because they are being paid, but because they 'truly believe' in their cause, with christians being an example of a true believer who arent promoting their views for personal gain

Is honkongphooey jewish?

No, I am not Jewish, fuck you people are stupid, this is the last time I respond to one of your questions

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

If you're not doing anything against anyone here then that's fine, people will figure it out, it's ok. I'm not trying to claim you are I just don't want to be taken for a ride either, y'know? Everyone here can surely relate to that for goodness sakes

What you said about "true believers" not needing to be compensated because they just believe in the cause makes sense. I've done it. It's a good way to put it. People have used that term in the context of cults too.

I know I put "religion" in OP as a category so maybe it was natural to mention Christians. Islam or another religion could have been the example. If it was just an honest comment then this is what I mean about the casual anti-christian thing. People don't tend to talk this way about Islam or Orthodox Judaism or whatever other kinds of things, it's usually Christians people talk about this way. I don't really like this. Certainly Christianity should be open to criticism like anything, but for people in a culture where it's something that's from their culture to morally guide them, it's not healthy to try to turn them away especially from the good parts.

"True believer" in this context I guess did sound a little negative, "one who's finally seen the light" or "enlightened" or "savvy enough to not have gotten vaxxed" would eg sound a bit more positive.

If you didn't mean anything by it don't worry, you're entitled to your opinion, you don't need to sugar coat it or state it differently than you think it, it's fine. I've enjoyed a lot of your posts. If you're not being nice and do have an agenda well that's ok too you can maybe work on being nicer to others as you're able to.

Idk what to think man. People have to draw their own conclusions right? It's confusing enough out there? You can talk to who you want on here I wouldn't want you to do something you don't want to do. I have enjoyed talking to you on here either way, you've shared helpful and interesting stuff.

I have to be free to make up my own mind about things as best I can, same as anyone, same as you? If you're just honestly sharing your opinion about things you're definitely not doing anything wrong. It's not strange that people would occasionally be concerned about alterior motives of one another on a site like this, that's not doing anything wrong either.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

"True believer" in this context I guess did sound a little negative, "one who's finally seen the light" or "enlightened" or "savvy enough to not have gotten vaxxed" would eg sound a bit more positive.

My honest intent was for it to be purely neutral and mean literally 'someone who truly believes'. I didn't use those other words because I didn't want to be seen as taking a side or stance on anyones particular system of beliefs because it didn't seem relevant to the discussion and I wanted to avoid sidetracking it with ideological debate.

I apologize for getting a little upset but its kind of irritating to post comments and read weird accusations about being a Jew

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It's nice of you to clarify and I'm sorry if I misread it. And I'm sorry to do anything to promote anger, I would hope that's not my intent for anyone on here regardless of what they're doing, and if it is, it's probably just me having a bad day or something. I like stuff different people say on here and not everyone is nice to each other so I guess that puts me in a weird spot sometimes.

[–]Pantypicker 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Just fyi, /u/hongkongphooey is anything but neutral when it comes to believing in a god.

She has ground my stones into a powder while declaring her endless love and devotion to Lucifer Satan, so maybe take that into consideration when discussing religion with her.

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

thank you for taking the time to add some context.

however considering that this is a new account and that your post history includes a significant number of non-serious posts, maybe some receipts are in order? It's hard for me to tell whether you're being serious here or not.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Don't worry about it dude, most of it was irritation with Dragonerne when I was responding to you. I overreacted, you seem like a pretty reasonable person from our interactions, I apologize as well

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't like seeing honest people fight on here, we have enough to deal with as it is. Heck I don't even like seeing dishonest people fight when it's not necessary. There are sometimes effective ways of handling problems that have less negative side effects.

Maybe it's not surprising things could get a little heated in a post about shilling etc. It's an important topic and important to be able to talk about. But maybe this is why I see people just post the guides and let people read them for themselves.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree panel, the hostility is frustrating and makes saidit less enjoyable. Personally I am not really interested in arguing about ideologies and identity groups, as it usually ends in fighting and not being constructive. I really did not mean to trigger a degeneration of the conversation, I was actually trying to avoid it by leaving my own views out of it and talking about why anyone with any ideology might promote their views forcefully, and be called a 'shill'.

Personally, I'm not sure why there would be any real paid shills on Saidit, this site maybe has 100 regular users total, and most of them don't change their minds easily, which is why 90% of this site is here, because reddit banned them for views plenty of people tried to talk them out of. Reddit, Twitter and the like are better places for shills to be effective and reach a large audience of easily swayed people. If someone is getting paid to post shit here, they are really wasting their money.

Personally, I think most people here, me included, strongly believe a lot of things (I wont use that one term again, lol, unintended interpretation), thats what got many of us removed from reddit.

[–]panel30[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I really did not mean to trigger a degeneration of the conversation, I was actually trying to avoid it by leaving my own views out of it and talking about why anyone with any ideology might promote their views forcefully, and be called a 'shill'.

Oh. That's nice to know.

this site maybe has 100 regular users total, and most of them don't change their minds easily, which is why 90% of this site is here, because reddit banned them for views plenty of people tried to talk them out of.

huh, fair point. I hadn't recognized that but it makes sense.

Personally, I'm not sure why there would be any real paid shills on Saidit

yeah. I'm not sure what I would expect, I don't know whether it would be surprising or not to see someone on here. There are definitely unambiguous spammers though, even with a small audience, so that's something. I'm not sure where which kinds tend to go.

It's ok to use whatever language is natural for you, I didn't mean to say you can't use "true believer"! Please don't feel like you need to censor yourself. It can have an anti-Christian connotation to some, so if that wasn't intended yeah I guess maybe a different way of putting it can be useful, but I don't want to start language and opinion policing on saidit. It's ok to have different perspectives on something.

I feel a little bad for trying to convince people of stuff in that way in the past. It's good to recognize when things are important, I'm grateful for all the people who've worked so hard re protecting free speech etc, for example. I'm glad there are other people on a site like this who are contributing to the space where people can discuss more freely. I just think maybe it wasn't great of me to push it on people, and for making it about "us" vs "them" kinda. Or about how I'm right. Sometimes it's felt good to me to just try to win a little fight, but, I don't really think that's productive. Back when I was on saidit before I did a lot of that and I'm sad now to have spread that around. I don't know quite how to clean it up if I did contribute to a negative atmosphere, though I've tried to some. Maybe that's part of why this topic interests me right now in a more broad sense than literal paid shills. I guess maybe I hope I can recognize that something is important or true without making it like that.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe that's part of why this topic interests me right now in a more broad sense than literal paid shills. I guess maybe I hope I can recognize that something is important or true without making it like that.

I agree with you here. I came to the same conclusion for maybe different reasons. For me it was I used to consider to myself a 'liberal' until all this vaccine and censorship stuff. I realized that individual issues were what was important to me rather than being on the 'right' or 'left' side, as the left abandoned these values, and some on the 'right' started promoting these values.