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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

I think StillLessons is largely correct. There are two types of people here. One is the type that is doing this for financial gain, but this type is rarer than the other type, and wants to create this second type for their own personal gain.

StillLessons called the second type 'activists', but I would use the term 'true believers', as it isn't necessarily political. Christians are a type of true believer - they want to save you from your wrong views and convert you to their correct ones. I'd also say that secular ideologies work much the same way, at least in social dynamics, you can have a true believer in liberalism, conservatism, gender ideology, capitalism, or pretty much any idea or group of ideas. They aren't really 'shills' because they truly believe what they say, and aren't in it for financial gain, but their words might be hard to distinguish from the first group

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

This reminds me of how people talk about "-isms" (commun-ism femin-ism).

It's fun to do this and try to convert people, it feels good and like you're doing something important. At least it has for me. (uh, sorry guys.)

How do you just be a regular person without all this? It's almost like that's the exception, by far. It's like everyone is constantly trying to convert you to something. And I'm doing it too.

I guess there's a difference in honestly though. Someone can be participating in something without pushing it on others, to varying degrees of insistence and varying degrees of ignoring the targeted people and reality.

[–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

Look how the jewish shill managed to derail your subject into a criticism of christianity and christians.

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

Is honkongphooey jewish?

I don't like the casual undermining of Christianity that I've seen in general in some places. Even if there are things that can be criticized it's not really a nice thing to try to undermine someone's cultural spiritual practices. There are at least a lot of positive things about Christianity, including missionary work, goodness knows there are times I wished a missionary would come find and help me when I've been involved in questionable things and needing help. That said, it's also important that it's ok to criticize in an open forum too.

maybe there's a better term for this sort of phenomenon in the domain of politics, consumer products, etc, than "true believer," which has religious connotations.

Maybe for politics "useful idiot", that also implies the "shill" doesn't know the real agenda. With drugs you can have a "pusher" though that implies nefarious motives. I guess "shill" is the one that came from commercial products. Marketing, recruiting, seduction. Idk.

I guess I don't know what to conclude re hongkongphooey based on this post alone. If he is doing that, well, that's not very nice and I hope he can find some ways to be nicer to others. And if he's not well that's great.

I have seen guides for shills or disinformation agents or whathaveyou in general, but I haven't seen a guide for spotting specifically jewish style disinformation. I don't know if such a thing would be useful or not.

[–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

One of the methods jews do is to project what they do unto their victim. So when he shills against christianity in this case, he frames it as if christians are 'shills'.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So when he shills against christianity in this case, he frames it as if christians are 'shills'.

Bro, your reading comprehension is really lacking. I said:

They aren't really 'shills' because they truly believe what they say, and aren't in it for financial gain

In reference to the true believers who I used christians as an example of. Someone who promotes their cause because they believe in it, not because they are being paid. While also saying some people truly believe in other secular ideologies, like liberalism, or conservatism, and promote it not because they are 'shills' but because they believe in it. They also want to 'convert' people to their system of morality. Its called an analogy. Interesting that you would interpret 'true believer' as a negative thing, I thought that was specifically what made one a good christian.

My entire point was merely that 'shills' are usually not shills at all, just people who truly believe in an ideology, but clearly you are either insane or not terribly bright

[–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You took a jab at christians, got called out, and now you're trying to pilpul yourself out of the situation, while attacking my personal characteristics. We both know that I am more intelligent and educated than you. And it's obvious to anyone reading, what you're trying to do.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I don't like the casual undermining of Christianity that I've seen in general in some places

What about 'true believer' do you interpret as being negative? Do christians not truly believe? Do christians not want to convert people to their religion? I am simply talking about facts. I though christians thought these were positive things

Also, neither of you is reading very carefully. I specifically wrote

They aren't really 'shills' because they truly believe what they say, and aren't in it for financial gain.

I was saying that not everyone who appears to be a shill is a shill at all, that some of them really believe what appears to be shilling for a cause. I'm not sure what you interpret as being negative about christianity here. I am simply stating that like religion, people can strongly believe in other things, and promote an agenda not because they are being paid, but because they 'truly believe' in their cause, with christians being an example of a true believer who arent promoting their views for personal gain

Is honkongphooey jewish?

No, I am not Jewish, fuck you people are stupid, this is the last time I respond to one of your questions

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

If you're not doing anything against anyone here then that's fine, people will figure it out, it's ok. I'm not trying to claim you are I just don't want to be taken for a ride either, y'know? Everyone here can surely relate to that for goodness sakes

What you said about "true believers" not needing to be compensated because they just believe in the cause makes sense. I've done it. It's a good way to put it. People have used that term in the context of cults too.

I know I put "religion" in OP as a category so maybe it was natural to mention Christians. Islam or another religion could have been the example. If it was just an honest comment then this is what I mean about the casual anti-christian thing. People don't tend to talk this way about Islam or Orthodox Judaism or whatever other kinds of things, it's usually Christians people talk about this way. I don't really like this. Certainly Christianity should be open to criticism like anything, but for people in a culture where it's something that's from their culture to morally guide them, it's not healthy to try to turn them away especially from the good parts.

"True believer" in this context I guess did sound a little negative, "one who's finally seen the light" or "enlightened" or "savvy enough to not have gotten vaxxed" would eg sound a bit more positive.

If you didn't mean anything by it don't worry, you're entitled to your opinion, you don't need to sugar coat it or state it differently than you think it, it's fine. I've enjoyed a lot of your posts. If you're not being nice and do have an agenda well that's ok too you can maybe work on being nicer to others as you're able to.

Idk what to think man. People have to draw their own conclusions right? It's confusing enough out there? You can talk to who you want on here I wouldn't want you to do something you don't want to do. I have enjoyed talking to you on here either way, you've shared helpful and interesting stuff.

I have to be free to make up my own mind about things as best I can, same as anyone, same as you? If you're just honestly sharing your opinion about things you're definitely not doing anything wrong. It's not strange that people would occasionally be concerned about alterior motives of one another on a site like this, that's not doing anything wrong either.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

"True believer" in this context I guess did sound a little negative, "one who's finally seen the light" or "enlightened" or "savvy enough to not have gotten vaxxed" would eg sound a bit more positive.

My honest intent was for it to be purely neutral and mean literally 'someone who truly believes'. I didn't use those other words because I didn't want to be seen as taking a side or stance on anyones particular system of beliefs because it didn't seem relevant to the discussion and I wanted to avoid sidetracking it with ideological debate.

I apologize for getting a little upset but its kind of irritating to post comments and read weird accusations about being a Jew

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It's nice of you to clarify and I'm sorry if I misread it. And I'm sorry to do anything to promote anger, I would hope that's not my intent for anyone on here regardless of what they're doing, and if it is, it's probably just me having a bad day or something. I like stuff different people say on here and not everyone is nice to each other so I guess that puts me in a weird spot sometimes.

[–]Pantypicker 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Just fyi, /u/hongkongphooey is anything but neutral when it comes to believing in a god.

She has ground my stones into a powder while declaring her endless love and devotion to Lucifer Satan, so maybe take that into consideration when discussing religion with her.

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

thank you for taking the time to add some context.

however considering that this is a new account and that your post history includes a significant number of non-serious posts, maybe some receipts are in order? It's hard for me to tell whether you're being serious here or not.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Don't worry about it dude, most of it was irritation with Dragonerne when I was responding to you. I overreacted, you seem like a pretty reasonable person from our interactions, I apologize as well

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't like seeing honest people fight on here, we have enough to deal with as it is. Heck I don't even like seeing dishonest people fight when it's not necessary. There are sometimes effective ways of handling problems that have less negative side effects.

Maybe it's not surprising things could get a little heated in a post about shilling etc. It's an important topic and important to be able to talk about. But maybe this is why I see people just post the guides and let people read them for themselves.