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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

It is a fantasy to imagine humans created perfect only to be corrupted, and later requiring a divine authority to dictate what is deemed as good and evil in an attempt to resolve this issue.

I am of the opinion that yes, morality is subjective. To believe otherwise is to ignore the varied cultures which have developed independently of eachother which hold very different standards of what is deemed morally acceptable. Philosophy has sought the answers to morality far longer than through religion and will do so long after these ancient texts die out.

That is one of those religious bullshits someone made up to manipulate people.

I relate the two because they are equally absurd, and both are the type of made up bullshit designed to inspire primitive minds and manipulate a community.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

It is a fantasy

So is luciferianism. The church of Satan. Every religion. Every non religious speculation of everything unprovable. Everything others say is proven but you can't verify yourself.

It's not a good argument to push one fantasy with the claim that the other fantasy is a fantasy.

and later requiring a divine authority to dictate what is deemed as good and evil in an attempt to resolve this issue.

Strawman argument. This was not how any religion presents thier argument. You invented this twisted retelling of the premise to resemble the original but be fundamentally flawed. Do better.

God is there from the beginning, and the argument for a God has zero to do with man, morality, the apple, judgement, or any of it. God is not created to resolve any issue with man's imperfection.

I am of the opinion that yes, morality is subjective.

A subjective morality means there is no right or wrong. Who are you to tell anyone else, be it a murderer or child rapist or dictator, that what they are doing is wrong? After all that is just your opinion and thier opinion says it's OK so long as they can justify it to themselves.

To believe otherwise is to ignore the varied cultures

No it's not. They are wrong. That is a belief intrinsic to your ideology. I don't think all cultures are equally good or equally moral.

Philosophy has sought the answers to morality far longer than through religion

And what is the philosophical answer? Because you already said morality is subjective and that is no different than saying it doesn't exist.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

So is luciferianism. The church of Satan. Every religion. Every non religious speculation of everything unprovable.

I agree, as an atheist, all these things are fiction to me.

It's not a good argument to push one fantasy with the claim that the other fantasy is a fantasy.

Now we're getting somewhere.

God is not created to resolve any issue with man's imperfection.

God was not created for resolution, but I did not suggest such. But the intervention of god was intended to resolve.

After all that is just your opinion and thier opinion says it's OK so long as they can justify it to themselves.

This is generally how civilization has evolved, we collectively come to an agreed moral code within our individual communities.

They are wrong.

They may beg to differ, buddy.

That is a belief intrinsic to your ideology.

I try to avoid alignment with any specific ideology. I joined this conversation for fun and some vague interest in the contradictory nature of religious and mythological history.

And what is the philosophical answer?

Where would you like to begin? The religious argument seems set on moral absolutism, whereas I might prefer a more relativistic approach. Nietzsche proposed that morality is connected to the individual culture. This is perhaps a better reflection of reality than that which religion attempts to push onto a culture.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

So you want collectivism and tyranny of the majority. Mob rule is not a good idea.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I think you misunderstand, it is not mob rule that I would support, this has not backing of historical evolution of a legal process. We currently live in a society where law is decided as a collective, but through experience and understanding we come to what we believe is the best conclusion through ongoing case law or by jury, not by divine authority, to have developed localised legal systems that define what is right and.what is wrong.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Morality isn't subjective. It's pretty obvious even without divine authority, make a mutual agreement not to harm each other, and don't be a hypocrite. All religions admit this, from Christianity to Satanism to paganism and more, even if some of them add a lot more bullshit on top of it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Morality of killing an animal is subjective when talking with a vegan.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

If they're conscious (99% chance) then I'd say it is objectively wrong. However there's not a whole lot you or I can do. If you don't eat them their meat will simply go to waste and their death will be in vain. I also think the way animals are treated is a much bigger problem than killing them for food.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

But the point is that we hold different values, there cannot be a definitive answer. The church would simply argue that animals have no soul, therefore the killing of an animal is deemed acceptable. While others would consider the act of any killing to be barbaric and sinful.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The church's scriptures clearly say that animals do have souls.