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[–]Site_rly_sux 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

various organic chemicals

Not an issue on which Alex knows anything more than headlines put In front of him. Alex hates the EPA and red tape regulation. He has no interest in pressing environment matters and the politicians he supports like Ron/Rand Paul and Trump would remove the public's right to even know about those chemicals. Talking about those chemicals serves precisely one purpose - talking about transphobia without talking about transphobia.

There's a guy who shot Reagan in the lung walking around free. Where's the outrage?

No idea what you're talking about. Is Alex supposed to be suppressing outrage about it? Why is this relevant

Why do we write "Black" but only "white"?

I've no idea why you do that, if there's someone else doing that and you wonder why then you can ask them, but this doesn't sound related to Alex either

What message do drag events actually send to children

It depends what story book they're reading. This is another transphobia narrative. Alex does not deserve to exist so that he can peddle more of his racism and transphobia

Is there value to the "western" or "Christian" tradition, or is an ethically lesser tradition compared to, oh, just about everything else? It's Hobbes vs. the idea of the "noble savage."

I totally disagree with the framing of your question. There is value in everyone's traditions. Your framing is such that everyone who doesn't fit into a socially -defined category is savage and I don't like that framing.

Alex is on the right side of this

Of what? Of all the gish gallop talking points you wrote? Am I supposed to accept that because you agree with him on a number of chauvinist and bigoted views that he's actually correct in the real world, too? No, thank you

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Not an issue on which Alex knows anything more than headlines put In front of him. Alex hates the EPA and red tape regulation. He has no interest in pressing environment matters and the politicians he supports like Ron/Rand Paul and Trump would remove the public's right to even know about those chemicals. Talking about those chemicals serves precisely one purpose - talking about transphobia without talking about transphobia.

We are both to the left of Alex on the issue of environmental regulation, I think. Economic conservatives have complained about every regulation since the abolition of child labor. They were wrong.

I don't agree with your "transphobia" analysis. The evidence that so-called trans people are indulging a fetish in public exists. That's part of the debate. It's not just bigotry.

No idea what you're talking about. Is Alex supposed to be suppressing outrage about it? Why is this relevant

John Hinckley shot Reagan, among others. He has finally been paroled and is espousing leftist causes on the internet.

I've no idea why you do that, if there's someone else doing that and you wonder why then you can ask them, but this doesn't sound related to Alex either

This was not written in good faith. The capitalization of "Black" but not "white" is pervasive. MSN, the New York Times, Slate, Salon... they all do it. That's pretty fucked up, and I say this as a guy who loves Black people.

I am not a White nationalist. Black people are an essential part of my country and my ethnic group.

I totally disagree with the framing of your question. There is value in everyone's traditions. Your framing is such that everyone who doesn't fit into a socially -defined category is savage and I don't like that framing.

If you believe this, I think you have to disavow the idea of "intersectionality." Do you believe in it? Is a man who wears a dress to work and gets fired for it really the moral equivalent of Medgar Evers?

[–]Site_rly_sux 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

to the left of Alex on the issue of environmental regulation

Then I'm unclear why you bought it up in support of Alex. He doesn't know about which species of frog or whatever is in his story. He doesn't care about laws and bills or attempts to ban that chemical or where those bills got to in committee - and he'd have no explanation if the senators and reps he supports, are the ones blocking progress in banning those chemicals. Because he does not care about the topic.

He does not care about wildlife. He cares about convincing his audience that the elites are attacking their dicks, as a means to sell boner pills. He cares about concern trolling and signalling transphobic "virtue" to his listeners. The frogs story is only a vehicle for his hate.

John Hinckley

Doesn't sound relevant to Alex or the hatred he peddles. Although Alex certainly supports terrorism. On the morning after one of his listeners put a mail bomb in George Soros' New York mailbox, Alex went on air saying "I am the angel of death". Alex once instructed his listeners that they needed to get to the bottom of comet ping pong, and a listener turned up with a rifle. Alex loves terrorism. I have no idea why you bought this up otherwise

This was not written in good faith. The capitalization of "Black" but not "white" is pervasive. MSN, the New York Times, Slate, Salon.

I am not behind the writing styles of those outlets and the topic has nothing to do with Alex Jones other than me confirming that he's also a white identitarian.

If you see some outlet writing like that, look on their website for a style guide which might answer your question. It's not a conspiracy against you, it's something you could answer if you were that bothered.

If you believe this, I think you have to disavow the idea of "intersectionality." Do you believe in it? Is a man who wears a dress to work and gets fired for it really the moral equivalent of Medgar Evers?

Men don't typically spontaneously don dresses for social or businesses situations. It sounds like you're describing someone coming out as trans at work. I don't think it's the same thing as just deciding to put a dress on. From what I have heard, deciding to inform all of your colleagues that you are trans is not a spontaneous thing that people might do.

I can tell you that I have a trans colleague, who was born female and now presents as a man, he has a girlfriend, a totally normal life, if you weren't told you wouldn't know. The idea that he could be fired just for that doesn't make me feel good. Like, in your world, does he have to keep it a secret from his superiors, because it's a firable offense?

If there is someone who was qualified, hired, performed well, got on with their colleagues and customers, hit all their targets, generally a model employee who came out as trans, should it be ok to fire them just for that?

It again has nothing to do with Alex Jones other than yes, Alex is a massive transphobe virtue signaller, who should be taken off the air

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I disagree with your interpretation of Alex's sincerity on environmental issues. To me, he seems like an open book. He has no ability to "filter" what he says. If all he cared about were selling vitamins, he'd probably just end up yelling "buy my goddamned penis pills, you morons!" And I don't see how his less-than-encyclopedic knowledge of environmental science makes his take less valid. He's asking obvious questions more laymen should be asking (or should be allowed to ask).

Alex and I do differ on how the "gay frog" issue should be fixed. If anything, he's nicer about it than I am. He seems to think that some combination of corporations acting more responsibly and consumers supporting more responsible corporations can fix the issue. I think action by the armed state is likely necessary. That's a valid disagreement that can be discussed without resorting to inventing "phobias" and making ad hominem attacks.

Doesn't sound relevant to Alex or the hatred he peddles.

I specifically raised it in the context of not wanting to debate Alex personally. You have no good answer for why democratic, Western societies are more punitive toward right wing transgressors so you brought it back to Alex.

one of his listeners put a mail bomb in George Soros' New York mailbox

Good.

I am not behind the writing styles of those outlets.

You wrote the word as "white" in your own next sentence. You could disavow this practice, but you do not.

If you see some outlet writing like that, look on their website for a style guide which might answer your question.

I don't have any question here. I've read the style guides. They say things like "Black people have a shared culture whereas white people do not." In their next breath, were told things like punctuality, public order, and transparent pricing are distinctly "white" characteristics.

They know we have a damned culture and they admit it. They're just too lazy to succeed within our culture so they resort to hatred and destruction instead.

From what I have heard, deciding to inform all of your colleagues that you are trans is not a spontaneous thing that people might do.

It happened at my workplace in the 1990s and they walked that guy right out the door with his personal effects in a box.

I can tell you that I have a trans colleague, who was born female and now presents as a man, he has a girlfriend, a totally normal life, if you weren't told you wouldn't know. The idea that he could be fired just for that doesn't make me feel good. Like, in your world, does he have to keep it a secret from his superiors, because it's a firable offense?

Yes, I would fire someone like that if I were allowed to, for her actions. There are plenty of other places where such people are accepted. I can avoid patronizing those places, and I shouldn't be compelled by the armed state to employ those people. I find a woman taking testosterone in order to grow more masculine objectively disgusting and disordered. That chemical is objectively wrong in her body, and wanting to transform into the opposite sex is a known fetish. Forcing me to participate in it by validating this transformation is sexual violence.

You've brought this discussion pretty inescapably to this bullshit "gender" topic. Frankly I don't think it's worthy of a response from decent people beyond the way it was dealt with in Ace Ventura or Austin Powers.

Feminist women have no choice but to engage on the topic, though. Their female spaces just evaporate when gender ideology takes hold. Try finding a lesbian bar, for example. Try finding a lesbian sub on Reddit where the moderators don't actually have penises.

To a radical feminist like Isabella Malbin or Jennifer Bilek, these people are men appropriating a stereotypical form of femininity in an act of sexual violence and female erasure. Moreover, this is being pushed on us by medical profiteers. Bilek in particular writes well on the topic, e.g. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/billionaire-family-pushing-synthetic-sex-identities-ssi-pritzkers

My final thought on that topic is that it is truly amazing what a supposedly mainstream news site like MSN looks like now. The headlines and ads would look utterly incomprehensible to someone from 20 or 30 years ago. "Top surgery for transmen"; "Dead-naming"; "Demi Lovato changes pronouns"; "Police department disbanded after racist joke"; "Wikipedia changes mind about definition of a recession"; "My son is a white supremacist incel"; all this crap about pedophilia...

How did these things, about which we scarcely cared 20 years ago, suddenly become so all-encompassing and central? That's the thing about progressivism, and gender ideology in particular: it sucks all the oxygen out of the room and allows for nothing else.

We have a society to run here. Resources are inherently scarce. We cannot simultaneously figure out how to stop burning oil, how to clean up the environment, how to pay the national debt, how to get everyone public medical insurance and education, how to house all these insane people on the streets, etc. all at once, particularly if we're also completely deconstructing language and culture at the same time and wasting hours and hours of public radio and miles of film on the non-existent problem of white supremacists.

Leftists think these things can be accomplished if we'll all just go along with the plan and stop being bigoted (and print a bunch of Yankee funny money, presumably). That's total nonsense. That's the thought process of a child. At the end of it all, people like you are basically children who won't grow up. I fully support your right to have your own country with a big fucking wall between it and my country.

[–]Site_rly_sux 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I disagree with your interpretation of Alex's sincerity on environmental issues

Again I will just say, Alex has shown with his actions that he does not care about wildlife protection laws, he doesn't care about legislation to remove any chemicals from the environment. He doesn't care what if any laws were drafted to remove the "gay frogs" chemicals, or deal with why a House he campaigned for sent to it die in committee

https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/4318/all-actions?overview=closed#tabs

His purpose is talking about the frogs is because it's a gay/trans issue he can use to reaffirm his audience's manliness. If you think it's a real issue to him you need to grapple with why he has no interest in learning anything at all about it, instead pushing politicians who have zero regard for the EPA.

I specifically raised it in the context of not wanting to debate Alex personally. You have no good answer for why democratic, Western societies are more punitive toward right wing transgressors so you brought it back to Alex

You didn't ask me anything about punitiveness and society, you asked me about a dude who shot Reagan. This is a thread and comment chain and debate about Alex. If you're agreeing that it's a topic which has nothing to do with AJ then let's agree to set it aside.

You wrote the word as "white" in your own next sentence.

Huh I guess I did. You'd have to find me capitalising B/black to catch me in the act though. Then, like I've pointed out before, you could simply ask - hey dude why did you write it like that? And probably get an answer. As I sit here and think about it, no, I don't think I would capitalise W/white to describe Alex's identitarianism. I don't think I write much about b/Black issues so I don't know whether I'd chose in the moment to capitalise. But if you see me writing anything that makes you scratch your head, you can just ask.

I've read the style guides. They say thing

I really, really dont think they say what you claim that say. I really doubt it dude. And having not read any such style guides on the matter myself, I don't know why I'm being asked to comment on it

White Christian identity politics are a huge part of Alex's show and material, and I don't like that kind of thing, about any ethnicity.

It happened at my workplace in the 1990s and they walked that guy right out the door

That's awful. Really awful. Whatever you think about people on the left/right, I don't think it's common to be walked out when colleagues discover a conservative, or veteran, or gay, or Jew, or one-eighth native american, or find out a partial disability unrelated to the job, or discover past medical history like fertility treatment. Being walked out for being trans is for me, in those protected categories.

You've brought this discussion pretty inescapably to this bullshit "gender" topic.

You asked me whether I didn't agree that west is best, noble savage etc. I didn't like the framing so you said I must think racism and transphobia are the same. So this is me responding to a topic which you shoe-horned in. Yes I believe that discovering your colleague is trans, is the same as discovering they're Jewish or of mixed-ethnicity or a combat veteran - all things which are protected by law.

Everything else you wrote is unrelated to Alex Jones flavour of bigoted idpol. If you don't like MSN then stop visiting.

At the end of it all, people like you are basically children who won't grow up. I fully support your right to have your own country with a big fucking wall between it and my country.

Oh. I thought we were having a grown up conversation. Now you're saying you want to hide from me behind a wall. I get that I suppose. Just please take Alex Jones with you

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I really, really dont think they say what you claim that say

Straight from the Associated Press website:

"NEW YORK (AP) — After changing its usage rules last month to capitalize the word 'Black' when used in the context of race and culture, The Associated Press on Monday said it would not do the same for 'white.' The AP said white people in general have much less shared history and culture"

https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-cultures-race-and-ethnicity-us-news-ap-top-news-7e36c00c5af0436abc09e051261fff1f

That's awful. Really awful. Whatever you think about people on the left/right, I don't think it's common to be walked out when colleagues discover a conservative, or veteran, or gay, or Jew, or one-eighth native american, or find out a partial disability unrelated to the job, or discover past medical history like fertility treatment. Being walked out for being trans is for me, in those protected categories.

They told me I was hired because the guy they originally wanted let it slip that he collected GI Joe dolls. I thought that was awful, but it's still not illegal. We have freedom of association.

Yes I believe that discovering your colleague is trans, is the same as discovering they're Jewish or of mixed-ethnicity or a combat veteran - all things which are protected by law.

I don't believe there are "trans" people. It's a behavioral choice. No one is born in "the wrong" body. Some people choose to recreationally use drugs (like spironolactone or synthetic hormones), some don't. It's extremely insulting to people who actually are disabled or part of some disliked minority group by no choice of their own that this crackpot theory of gender has been conflated with them.

If you don't like MSN then stop visiting.

Well, you've really swept us 80,000,000 into quite a small corner. It's not just MSN. They're close to the political center your side has somehow engineered. People like me have Infowars, WND, Newsmax, maybe a half-dozen others. Guess we should just be quiet, crowded into our sort of "reservation" or "camp for grown-ups" here.

[–]Site_rly_sux 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The AP said white people in general have much less shared history and culture

Go complain to the AP then, it's not a defense of Alex Jones.

I will conceed that I didn't believe it would say that and you showed me it did. You were right and I was wrong about that. But you haven't red pilled me, I just, will now join you in rolling my eyes at the AP. There's an element of truthfulness to it though, and the part just after your quote - about a shared experience of discrimination bringing forth a culture that deserves a proper noun, capitalised - that's not something I would tell B/black people they're not allowed to have.

I thought that was awful, but it's still not illegal. We have freedom of association

Sure, but just to be clear, nobody is talking about making doll collecting a lawfully protected category like religion or sexuality. And your original question was about "man in a dress", where I believe trans should be a protected category.

don't believe there are "trans" people

Ok. Some people don't beleive there are "gay" people. Some think Islam is just devil worship and the religion doesn't exist outside that. You're entitled to a view, but you can't fire someone for being Muslim without breaking the law.

It's not just MSN. They're close to the political center your side has somehow engineered. People like me have Infowars, WND, Newsmax, maybe a half-dozen others. Guess we should just be quiet,

You bought up MSN as a place you don't like the reporting, it's not sweeping anybody in a corner to say, well stop going there, then.

You can listen to and have infowars in your life, no problem, although like I already said, it's a moronic confidence trick, but if the broadcasters defame someone then their victims should have legal recourse. "Free speech is a right but you have to pay for lies". It's not a legal entitlement of Alex's to go on air and maliciously lie about people.