all 34 comments

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Canbot 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Population density is secretly the main factor. It is being surrounded by people you don't have a relationship with. In nature you would either be friends or enemies. If the latter you would fight until one of you was expelled from the other's territory. If you were friends you would know them, trust them, work together for mutual benefit.

    Co habitating with so many strangers is un natural. It is the mouse utopia experiment on humans. Spoiler alert: the mice exhibited a lot of behaviors that indicate depression. They also were asexual and obsessed with vanity.

    [–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    friends or enemies.

    Friends, enemies or 'on guard'. Which when you're in a city means your always on guard or around enemies. That fucks up men but especially women. Women need security more than men.

    [–]cant_even 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    As a former 'SSRI' guinea-pig, I have a question for current ones: Do you recall being told your condition was due to "chemical imbalances in the brain"? I was. Do you then recall:

    1. Being tested for "brain chemicals"?
    2. Being told what your "reading" was, and what a normal person's "reading" is for comparison, like every other lab-test I've had for the last 35 years?
      • if "no" to the above:
    3. Would you accept a garage mechanic saying you "needed an auto repair" based on such non-scientific diagnosis? If so, why?

    I seriously hope there's massive malpractice activity coming.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    You can't really test a living person's levels of brain chemicals safely, but they knew that was shady regardless. The different drugs affect different chemicals, yet all do the same basic thing and have similar results. If there were truly an imbalance, they wouldn't be so interchangeable. Irving Kush has a great paper he mentions that in: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

    I was on Celexa for years and it worked for me.

    [–]jet199Instigatrix 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    Survivor bias

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I know a guy hooked on antidepressants for 10 years, diagnosed as a kid and trusts every word the doctor says, and is adamant that he needs them, you can see after he takes a pill that he gets high and pulls a tard face like he just smoked a reefer.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Survivor of depression truth.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Definitely

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Active placebos are not totally ineffective, but are you sure your improvement was due to Celexa, or simply coincided with it?

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    An hour after taking the med I could feel it working. It was extremely effective for me. When I tired quitting cold turkey, the depression came back until I started taking it again, and the exact same thing happened.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Interesting.

    [–]Canbot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Did it cure you, or did changes to your life cure you?

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    They stopped working, and I was no longer depressed. I quit cold turkey without issues.

    [–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    How did you support yourself?

    [–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    See that's where assertions like OP's fall apart. Sure there is some sketchy science behind a lot of medicine but . . . hey some people get a semblance of a normal life with a pill that alters their biochemistry.

    [–]makesyoudownvote 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Celexa kinda worked for me too. The only problem was it affected my memory severely. Huge chunks of my memory from when I was on it are just gone.

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Anyone who condones antidepressants as a therapeutic must also condone recreational substances to the same effect and support their decriminalisation. Not to do so is hypocrisy and ignorant of the fact that antidepressants are not a cure but a mere bandage on a wound.

    Drugs can be helpful for many, and damaging to others. I personally think people should seek a longer term option such as psychedelics to reset the system, but again this may not be suitable for everyone.

    The fact is, those who antidepressants help typically respond with, 'it worked for me' or ' my father stopped taking them and got worse' with no empathy for those whose life they severely fucked up, I've seen this happen more than I'd have liked. Yes, they work for some and yes they have withdrawal effects, it doesn't mean it's always the right answer. I've seen those who were just a little down in the dumps go full suicidal after antidepressants and later regretted letting the doctor pressure them into taking them. Equally I've seen people fix their life with nonprescription happy pills.

    There's two sides to everything.

    I heard yoga really helps.

    [–]jet199Instigatrix 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Well yes, this is why we look at research into thousands rather than anecdotes which don't take into account all the other factors in their lives.

    The research shows they don't work.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Sadly, while research demonstrates a general failure to succeed in treating that which they are prescribed, medical professionals are still pushing them on people and giving them out like candy. If only there were greater study into the use of psychedelics and MDMA to produce a lasting positive response instead of inducing reliance on a drug that requires daily administration over long periods.

    Similarly to antidepressants, benzodiazipines are handed out casually for mild sleep disturbances or short term stress, these are powerful anti-anxiety meds that are more likely to lead onto sleep and anxiety symptoms after stopping them. These fuckers took me months to get off, I took them recreationally to help with sleep and ended up trapped on them for 2 years, the recovery took about a year which included memory loss, shakes, intense anxiety, insomnia, migraines and more. It's a pity that the media chose to attack Jordan Peterson over the same issue as it's a common reaction to the type of medication and utterly soul destroying.

    [–]Alienhunter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    My opinion on all of this is drugs in general are not inherently evil and can be used for some benefit but are inherently dangerous to differing severities and should be used with a great amount of caution that unfortunately is not a decision that can be left up entirely to the individual in question due to the real dangers of abuse and dependence, neither should the decision be left up to a for-profit medical industry that has an incentive to keep people as customers over fixing their problems.

    I think many people correctly know that the reasons for the depression ultimately come down to the inhumane conditions imposed by modern urban lifestyles, but unfortunately the solution in some cases is not possible for someone who has already fallen into a depression cycle and is unable to pull themselves out of it so the drugs can be a lesser of two evils situation in those cases.

    It's not that they don't work, it's more like they are the equivalent of telling someone that the solution to stop feeling unhappy is to go drink a bottle of whiskey. Works similarly. Changes your brain chemistry. Makes you numb to your situations and the problems surrounding you, and does provide you with a brief vacation from life and stress if done right.

    But it's hardly good for your health and certainly not something you wish to use in lieu of actually fixing your problems.

    I think the core of this like with other issues is people tend to take extreme positions and react to each other which obfuscates the actual more subtle and complex realities that are faced. There are many people myself included who are highly sceptical of anti-depressant use for very good reasons, but our side is mired by people who will go out and demonize and decry the people that use them with claims that they are weak or the drugs are completely unnecessary without understanding the subtleties and hopelessness that people with depression feel. Likewise people who have seen success with them rightly swear by them but their circumstances don't necessarily apply to everyone else and it can be easy to ignore the problems with them as like with any drug, they aren't without a cost.

    But this is like demonizing heroin for hospice patients in a way. Heroin is something best avoided by all, due to the horrible risk of addiction and overdose shortening and eventually killing you. But if you're going to die soon anyway, the lifelong addiction to heroin that can be the result of heroin is only going to be a problem for a couple of days since you're not going to live long anyway, so it becomes ethically justifiable to give the hospice patient whatever eases their suffering since it won't create more later.

    Anti-depressant are not much different. For most, change of environment, exercise, all sorts of lifestyle changes are the best option and can fix the problems without needing to resort to drugs, but once the depression reaches a point where it's truly beyond the person's ability to pull themselves out and the risk of suicide is paramount, then the anti-depressants are justifiable to use, they may cause some long term issues that will need to be sorted out but if the alternative is death then it's the lesser of two evils.

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It really is scandalous how little research underpins pharmaceutical development. Just cobble together a few purely statistical studies and maybe come up with a plausible narrative of how the compound is "thought to" work. Yes, "thought to" is the classic weasel word used by these studies. Once the drug's approved, there's basically no requirement for follow-up. Competitors will rapidly start coming up with slight variations on the involved molecule(s) and get them to market as new, proprietary drugs using similar studies. The whole thing makes me want to vomit.

    [–]Mazurro 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Well, SSRIs actually worked on me and cured my depression to a certain degree, while benzo (Alprazolam) prescribed for more stressful situation put me in a 4-5 hour brain freeze. Therapy is a pseudoscience, it lacks repeatability, control group, consistency of terms, but psychiatry is actually a science.

    But obviously as someone said - those meds are being prescribed because this world and society is shit in fighting the reason why people get depressed.

    [–]thethrowaway 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I was perscribed antidepressants when I was a teenager about 10 yrs ago. I pretended to take them in front of my parents, but would hide them under my tongue/in my cheek and then throw them in the trash or flush them down the toilet. I kept this up for years.

    I was "depressed" because my dad was being an ass and micromanaging my life and bullying me relentlessly, so in retaliation I dropped out of school and refused to do anything.

    A couple years later I learned to stick up for myself and stopped listening to my dad, everyone said I was doing so much better and the antidepressant pills were working a miracle. Nope, I got better on my own, without pills.

    [–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    What reaction did you expect?

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    It wasn't unexpected. I'm just doing my part, Conscript Schmidt.

    [–]aHobbitsTale 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    What-if these drugs operated on an entirely different mechanism? This isn't to cast shade on their efficacy, because efficacy and mechanism are entirely different phenomena. What if the mechanism is an entirely sexual one? That the efficacy is one of pharmacologic detraction of sexual pursuit? As-if sexual pursuit only consisted of hedonistic pleasure, which is certainly a " side-effect." Perhaps a primary method of action. It is entirely naive to suggest that sexual desires are bereft of romantic and companionate aspect. What driving force motivates people in life? A desire for sexual, companionate, and romantic union? Such a thing, unsatisfied, could very well lead to an existential loss. Perhaps the side-effects are the primary mechanism?

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    You're saying that antidepressants kill your sex drive is a feature, and not a bug, amiright?

    That one dude's drug who said he had a good experience they postulate may act like weed. That's very interesting!

    [–]Mazurro 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    SSRIs killed my sex drive too and I honestly think about it as a feature - when I am unable to have sex, lack of sex drive removes this craving from my head allowing me to feel inner peace.

    [–]aHobbitsTale 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Correct. Feature not bug. Late night hypothesis. Take with a grain of salt.

    [–]JoeyJoeJoe 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I have to ask - - - what does a vain mouse look like??

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Vain mouse?