all 18 comments

[–]jagworms 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

The question was "Did she defame him?" and the answer was yes. It wasn't "Which of these terrible people is a better person?" Without an objective reality to gauge against, the opinion of a jury of peers is as close as we can get. Reasonable, regular people saw it the way it came out. You want a jury comprised of experts? Experts are morons.

[–]raven9[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

The answer was NO. You cannot defame someone if you believe you are telling the truth and 7 random idiots off the street are not even remotely qualified to decide what is the truth or not and that is why trial by jury is a fundamentally flawed system.

Amber Heard had written texts and emails about the abuse and violence to her own mother, to Depps personal assistant and even to Depp himself during the years before their divorce and Depp admitted it multiple times in texts and audio recordings.

Below is the text of an authenticated email that Amber Heard wrote to Depp in 2013. She never actually sent it to him but she saved it by sending it to herself. This is just one of the many proofs that she really was the victim of interpersonal abuse and sure if this was the only piece of evidence then it might be pertinant to question whether it is fictional but when there are texts of her discussing similar behaviour with Depps assistant and describing it to her mother and Depps texts to her apologizing for his behaviour and audio recordings of him admitting it and video of him drunk and aggressive then it is ridiculous to say she made it all up.

I just don’t know if I can do this anymore.

It’s like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Half of you, I love. Madly. The other half scares me. I can’t take him. I wish I could, but I can’t.

The problem is, I never really know/understand which one I’m dealing with until it’s too late.

The drinking assures me that I am dealing with the monster. The abused scared insecure violent little boy. I just can’t tell where the line starts.

Also, drugs seem to guarantee I will be forced to deal with the monster as well.

Once again, it’s knowing what/how much/and when – which makes all the difference.

Sometimes the hangover, the morning after is just as bad as the full on disco blood bath I’ve come to expect.

You live in a world full of enablers.

You cut out and resent (whether you realise it or not) everyone who isn’t an enabler.

I can make a clear distinction as to who falls into which category with complete ease. Just how often you see them and what role they play in your day-to-day life distinguishes where they fall on the enabling scale.

I watch yesterday as everyone around you picked you up off the floor, held you up. Got you on with your life. Prevented you from really falling.

With so much help, of course you can’t know how much this hurts you and your life.

Because you pay people around you to prevent your feet from having to hit the rock bottom, as they say.

Yesterday, I saw you pass out, amongst vomiting, three times. All three times Jerry had carry you from the floor.

On the plane Nathan mentioned how many times he’s had to break into locked doors to wake you up, after passing out on the toilet.

You would have embarrassed yourself countless times if someone would be honest enough with you to tell you. To show you.

If someone filmed you while you were in this state you would be mortified.

It’s embarrassing just watching it happen.

You can’t know because people (friends?) keep smiling to your face and then turning their heads and rolling their eyes at how ridiculous they feel and look picking a grown man up from his own piss and vomit, knowing he’ll never be able to realise how bad he looks.

Hung over – post pills is not much better. You’re mean and insensitive.

I have no reason I have to stay with you. And I won’t. You don’t pay me. I don’t have to lie to you for my job, livelihood or kids.

I will never want to be locked into you. My freedom is now, I realise, the only thing I have to protect me. I will never ever trust you to trap me.

I myself watched you pass out cold on the floor, after drinking yourself sick.

One of these times you cut yourself so badly that you needed stitches.

You say things you don’t mean. You are impossible to reason with. So everyone placates you. Lies to you. Worse even, you lie to yourself. And you believe it.

You have so many yes people around you constantly protecting you from yourself and the truth.

They think looking at you in a disappointed way is truth? Ah, no wonder it doesn’t work.

If they left you, on the floor in your own shit, locked in the bathroom while you missed work – then you might have to actually learn. Learn to take care of yourself.

You think you’re so tough, big self-destruction – I-don’t-give-a-f--- man?!? B-------.

If you really didn’t then you wouldn’t have so many people there to take care of you.

You just let them do all the hard work while you run away from your problems unable to take pain.

Such a big man that you need your paid assistants and family to carry and clean up after you.

A real man doesn’t need to be cared for like a baby.

What I saw last night was a child.

You made me feel, at the beginning, safe. Like you could care for me. Like I could have a family with you. You made me feel like you were a real man – that was only half of you.

What I saw yesterday, and many times before, is a needy man-child.

I watch as other grown men have to wipe you, basically. And you get the convenient benefit of never having to remember it. That’s nice. For you.

So you get away with so many lies that you tell yourself.

You actually trick yourself into thinking the craziest lies when you’re f----- up and because your so accustomed to people NOT calling you out on your b------- (they work for you – hello) that you actually believe your s---. (Need a reference, how about when you actually thought I hit you first. Or that I was hiding drugs – the list goes on).

Admit some of your own s--- first.

Many times you have hurt me. Physically and emotionally from the things you say and did while f----- up.

The monster comes out and you become mean and horrible. The opposite of why I love you.

And what I am to do? How would you be if you were in love with one person who was in fact, two? Both you, the love of my life, and the monster look the same. How f------ confused I feel.

I am mad. So mad.

How would you feel if you were sold false goods??

I fell for you while you were sober. A whole year. How could I know this lay in store for me?

How dare you make me fall in love with you, present this other self – your good half – only to rip the mask off once I was in?!

I feel like the biggest idiot in the world.

I have put up with so much. I have cleaned s---, vomit and p--- up both literally and figuratively.

I have been accused of crazy s--- – none of which I deserved – only to never hear an apology for your booze-fuelled zeal.

You have hit me repeated. Something you should Never have done. What a f------ man you are.

And NONE of this would be possible without the booze and drugs. NONE.”

[–]Insider 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Who cares, the whole thing was probably a farce. "Authenticated emails"..by who? The entire system is broken and corrupt.

why was such a big deal made about two loser couples having a spat? This is a distraction.

[–]raven9[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You think no one should care about a clearly disfunctional justice system?

[–]raven9[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The email was recorded on the email server when she saved it by sending it to herself in 2013.

[–]SMCAB 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You're missing the point, and you're also not acknowledging her own mental illness.

The trial was about defamation, he was defamed.

Do you really think someone with BPD is above lying to their own mother to produce their own victim hood, and blameshift to gain support? The answer is they aren't. They can be some of the most manipulating, cold, and calculating people on the planet, professional liars. Awards for lying would be won by these people.

You're dealing with two crazies that in a just world would be irrelevant. It isn't worth your time.

[–]raven9[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No YOU are missing the point. It is not defamation if she believed she was telling the truth so even if you want to claim it was all in her mind which in light of the evidence is ridiculous because if that were true it would have to mean everyone around her was gaslighting her because there is a ton of evidence that Depp and his assistant and her neighbors and friends and doctors and professionals all confirmed that belief by their own statements to her in emails, in texts and in audio recordings and in video depositions that were shown in court. Multiple people.

[–]SMCAB 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Cool.

[–]jagworms 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't know what this is supposed to prove. It wasn't a criminal trial. He sued her for defamation, and she countersued for the same. They both won/lost, because they're awful. Sounds fair.

[–]raven9[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So you are saying you completely failed to understand the point of my post or you just didn't bother to read it?

I thought I made it clear.

My post is about the outdated and archaic jury system that pulls people off the street and presumes, regardless of their age, intelligence, education or experience that they will understand and properly assess complex testimony and evidence, that they will have the critical thinking skills that they can be expected to decide who is lying and that they will have the integrity to make a decision on the evidence and not treat the trial like a popularity contest.

My only reasons for referencing the Amber Heard case is because I thought it is obvious when there is so much evidence of an abusive relationship, the verdict that found she defamed him for saying so was obviously wrong. But I could just as easily have used the OJ Simpson case or even that Armund Arbery case that put the guy who filmed it away for murder when all he did is follow behind them and film what happened without even getting out of his car.

[–]IkeConn 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Bla bla deflect deflect. Wall of bullshit words.

[–]hfxB0oyA 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

So raven9, anything you want to share with us about your family life growing up?

[–]raven9[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

@magnora7. This troll comment exemplifies the point of my post very well - Why you shouldn't pull random idiots off the street and assign them to positions of trust and/or authority.

[–]hfxB0oyA 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

The borderline personality cannot tolerate criticism due to underlying lack of self esteem. When subjected to even light criticism, rather than replying to their critic, the borderline's tactic is instead to attempt to silence the critic by turning others in their community against them.

I am of course only commenting on Amber Heard's diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder.

[–]raven9[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

It depends what you consider to be criticism. A typical discussion forum troll might try to claim their snarky remarks about other peoples families to be criticism when called out on it.

As for Amber Heard, that diagnosis can hardly be taken seriously when it was delivered by a doctor that was on Depp's payroll and attended insider meetings at Depps house with Depp and his legal team and when Amber Heard's own doctors had never given any such diagnosis themselves.

[–]hfxB0oyA 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Well good luck in your crusade, son. Amber and I are both very proud of you.

[–]raven9[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

u/Magnora7 do you really think this "moderator" is contributing to this forum? Are their comments in this thread high on the pyramid of debate or are they bottom tier troll comments that just attempt to drag the discussion down?

[–]hfxB0oyA 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Son, if you'd like to cancel people you can sign up to Reddit for free.