My parents forced me to get the covid vaccine

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[–]TheJamesRocket 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

But experiments were done.

Thats not good enough. These vaccines are being administered to over a billion people around the world. If they are anything less than 100% safe, then the consequences will be catastrophic. None of the vaccines have received FDA approval: They have only received emergency use approval.

The mRNA vaccines have complications in fewer than 1 in a million.

This is complete and total bullshit. Not only is the rate of 'complications' vastly higher than what you imply, but the rate of DEATHS from these complications is much higher too. At this point, 48% of the U.S. population has been vaccinated, thats roughly 156 million people. We now know that there have been at least 45,000 deaths that can be attributed to complications from the vaccines. That means that the odds of DYING from the vaccine are roughly 1 in 3500. Thats an enormously higher rate than what you claimed even for complications (let alone deaths). Those are the facts.

Anyone who is promoting blind acceptance of the vaccines is an accomplice to medical homicide.

[–]ActuallyNot 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

If they are anything less than 100% safe, then the consequences will be catastrophic.

You've got a strange understanding of "catastrophic" if you think a 99.99995% safe vaccine counts.

None of the vaccines have received FDA approval: They have only received emergency use approval.

That's because the health and economic consequences of CoVID are catastrophic.

at least 45,000 deaths that can be attributed to complications from the vaccines.

No, one guy has sworn under penalty of purgery that there have been at least 45,000 deaths.

He's wrong. That would be one death in every 3,500 jabs. The 44,000 participants in the phase 3 trials would should have resulted in 12 deaths if that was correct. In fact no serious safety concerns were observed in trial participants up to six months after the second dose.

[–]TheJamesRocket 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You've got a strange understanding of "catastrophic" if you think a 99.99995% safe vaccine counts.

No. Thats not how it works. Vaccines need to be completely safe to a statistically arbitrary margin, because they will be administered to hundreds of millions of people. If they are anything less than 100% safe, then they will end up killings tens of thousands of people, as the covid vaccines are now doing.

You lack a sense of scale for what is being discussed here. In the past, vaccines have been suspended for causing dozens of deaths. But now, we are talking about a vaccine that has caused orders of magnitudes more deaths, but has still not been suspended. Oh, and your math is wrong too. The vaccine is not 99.99995% safe, as you falsely claim. In point of fact, you have a 99.972% chance of not DYING from the covid vaccine.

And remember, the safety of a vaccine IS NOT commensurate with the odds of not dying from it: The safety of a vaccine is commensurate with the odds of not developing any health complications. Your idea of 'safety' bares no resemblance to the medical guidelines that the FDA works by. Your idea of safety is more akin to a Medieval doctor chopping off the arms of his patient and hoping for the best.

That's because the health and economic consequences of CoVID are catastrophic.

No. The health and economic consequences of LOCKDOWNS are catastrophic. They have led to thousands of small businesses going bankrupt, because they were forced to lockdown while the megacorporations were allowed to stay open for business. They have resulted in countless numbers of people dying from suicide, drug overdoses, and untreated medical emergencys. The lockdowns were only meant to last for two weeks, but instead, they were extended again and again indefinitely. Most of the world has been in lockdown for over a year. The consequences of that are incalculable.

One guy has sworn under penalty of purgery that there have been at least 45,000 deaths.

This whistleblower saw the numbers of adverse reactions on the VAERS, and he testified to what he saw. Keep in mind, those were the numbers on just one VAERS system, there are several different VAERS systems in use.

The 44,000 participants in the phase 3 trials would should have resulted in 12 deaths if that was correct.

Even if we take those results at face value, it doesn't mean much. Do you know what the difference is between a trial and the real world? In trials, they use healthy patients to experiment on. In the real world, there are people with serious health problems taking the vaccine. They have been pressured into it by a 24/7 media blitz on television and the internet. This would not be happening under normal circumstances. It is gross medical malpractise on an international scale.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No. Thats not how it works.

So a catastrophe would be if one person in 8 billion has some temporary neurological side effect?

If they are anything less than 100% safe, then they will end up killings tens of thousands of people,

It would need to be less than 99.99975% fatal if you want to vaccinate 8 billion people and still kill 20 thousand.

, as the covid vaccines are now doing.

Right. But that's bullshit isn't it.

In the past, vaccines have been suspended for causing dozens of deaths.

For instance?

But now, we are talking about a vaccine that has caused orders of magnitudes more deaths, but has still not been suspended.

So one of the points that we disagree on is this number of deaths due to the vaccine. How many are you claiming, and what is the source?

The vaccine is not 99.99995% safe, as you falsely claim.

I didn't actually claim that. I gave an example of a safety that is less than 100%, and would be not catastrophic.

But it is the half a person in every million. If you think that's wrong, show me what you think is right, and the source.

The health and economic consequences of LOCKDOWNS are catastrophic.

The lockdown was fine for health. The suicide rate disappeared. The road toll disappeared. CoVID deaths were limited.

They have resulted in countless numbers of people dying from suicide, drug overdoses, and untreated medical emergencys.

You're mistaken about suicides. Suicides decreased by almost 6 percent last year during the COVID-19 pandemic, the sharpest drop in 4 decades.

You're correct about drug overdoses, and you're likely correct about medical emergencies.

Keep in mind, those were the numbers on just one VAERS system

Also keep in mind VAERS is not evidence. It doesn't attribute any side effect to the vaccine. It is merely a vaccine reality show where members of the public vote for their favourite side effect.

To look at if any of those are attributable to the vaccine, you need to look more closely. Or compare vaccinated and unvaccinated groups of a decent size.

Even if we take those results at face value, it doesn't mean much.

That would be more sensible that taking VAERS reports at face value.

In trials, they use healthy patients to experiment on.

Certainly if you have allergies or immune disorders, check with your GP before getting the vaccine.

[–]TheJamesRocket 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

For instance?

In 1976, the U.S. government vaccinated an estimated 45 million people against pandemic swine flu. The 1976 pandemic swine flu mass vaccination campaign was canceled after 53 people died. Pandemrix (for the the 2009 flu pandemic) was pulled because it caused ~1500 cases of narcolepsy. Rotoshield was pulled after it caused an modest increase in the risk of intususseption in infants. The Dengvaxia rollout in the Philippines ended in controversy because it contributed to the deaths of a few hundred kids.

So a catastrophe would be if one person in 8 billion has some temporary neurological side effect?

You have a special talent for grossly distorting what other people say, to the point it no longer even resembles the original comment. I was (and still am) talking about the situation in the United States today, where hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated, and tens of thousands of people have died as a result. If you extrapolate those numbers to the world stage, then the death toll is going to be much larger. This is not some hypothetical, it is what is actually happening right now, because the vaccines are not safe. You look like a complete buffoon, by talking about a hypothetical vaccine with a death rate of 1 in 8 billion, as opposed to the real vaccines which have a death rate of 1 in 3500.

It would need to be less than 99.99975% fatal if you want to vaccinate 8 billion people and still kill 20 thousand.

Oh my god, how can you be this stupid? I was specifically talking about the United States, not the entire world! Did you completely miss the part where I said that 48% of the U.S. population has been vaccinated (roughly 156 million people), and that there have been at least 45,000 deaths from the vaccines? How can you be so clueless as to think that I was talking about the entire world? Your numbers are based on a complete fiction of your own making, especially since the entire world hasn't even been vaccinated yet! You are a MORON.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You have a special talent for grossly distorting what other people say, to the point it no longer even resembles the original comment.

You said: "If they are anything less than 100% safe, then the consequences will be catastrophic."

100% safe would be 0 medically significant side effects amongst 8,000,000,000 people wouldn't it?

Anything less than 100% would be anything more than 0. Including 1.

What have I misunderstood?

I was (and still am) talking about the situation in the United States today, where hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated, and tens of thousands of people have died as a result.

Nope. There are reports on VAERS. That does not mean or even imply that that many have died as a result of the vaccination.

as opposed to the real vaccines which have a death rate of 1 in 3500.

The stage three trials were 0 deaths in 44,000. And 0 serious safety concerns. Your source for this 1 in 3500 is from one guys interpretation of VAERS, which requires a misunderstanding of what VAERS is. That's a reporting system by the public. Even assuming that there aren't dozens of anti-vaxers making up reports, they will include a lot of post-hoc effects that are not related to the vaccine.

Oh my god, how can you be this stupid? I was specifically talking about the United States, not the entire world!

Oh, pardon me. I'd forgotten that America is the only country getting vaccinated. I will restrict my discussion to the only 4% of the world that we clearly should be talking about.

Did you completely miss the part where I said that 48% of the U.S. population has been vaccinated (roughly 156 million people), and that there have been at least 45,000 deaths from the vaccines?

No, I responded to it.

Right. But that's bullshit isn't it.

Also keep in mind VAERS is not evidence. It doesn't attribute any side effect to the vaccine. It is merely a vaccine reality show where members of the public vote for their favourite side effect.

To look at if any of those are attributable to the vaccine, you need to look more closely. Or compare vaccinated and unvaccinated groups of a decent size.

The question you missed:

In the past, vaccines have been suspended for causing dozens of deaths.

For instance?

[–]TheJamesRocket 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You said: "If they are anything less than 100% safe, then the consequences will be catastrophic."

100% safe would be 0 medically significant side effects amongst 8,000,000,000 people wouldn't it? Anything less than 100% would be anything more than 0. Including 1.

How about no? ''Anything less than 100% safe'' includes a huge range of numbers, from 99.99% safe, all the way down to 0.01% safe. You can run those numbers to as many decimal places as you want, and the basic conclusion is still the same. When you have a vaccine thats being administered to billions of people, anything less than 100% would be a catastrophe.

The problem is that you are deliberately being obnoxious and refusing to concede an obvious point. You don't want to acknowledge the truth, so instead, you create a red herring. You speculate about a hypothetical vaccine that is 99.99++++++++% safe in order to try and invalidate my point. This is not only petty and dishonest, but it is completely irrelevant because we know from the VAERS database that the covid vaccine is nowhere near as safe as this. We're not arguing about your bullshit hypothetical vaccines, we're arguing about a real life vaccine that is killing huge numbers of people. Pull your head out of your ass!

Nope. There are reports on VAERS. That does not mean or even imply that that many have died as a result of the vaccination.

Wrong. Here is a quote from the article I linked to: ''Allegedly, the whistleblower stated that there are around 11 VAERS systems reporting adverse reactions and deaths across the US, and one system alone has allegedly has reported the shocking 45,000 deaths from the Covid jabs. However, Renz believes that this number is “immensely higher” and is calling for immediate investigations into the VAERS system.''

The stage three trials were 0 deaths in 44,000. And 0 serious safety concerns.

I've already went over this, and why it doesn't mean much. To repeat myself: ''In trials, they use healthy patients to experiment on. In the real world, there are people with serious health problems taking the vaccine.''

Your source for this 1 in 3500 is from one guys interpretation of VAERS, which requires a misunderstanding of what VAERS is.

There are several different sources indicating a high number of deaths from the covid vaccine in the U.S. The VAERS whistleblower reported at least 45,000 deaths. The CDC also reported 12,313 deaths on their website, before they hastily edited that number down to 6079 deaths.

No, I responded to it.

No, you didn't. You were babbling on about your hypothetical case where 8 billion people have been vaccinated and only 20,000 have died as a result. Because it had completely escaped your notice that I was talking about the United States and the 45,000 people who have died from the covid vaccine.

The question you missed:

In the past, vaccines have been suspended for causing dozens of deaths.

For instance?

Are you blind as well as stupid? I already answer that question in my last post. Go back and read it. I am getting very tired of having to repeat myself because of your bad reading comprehension.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How about no? ''Anything less than 100% safe'' includes a huge range of numbers, from 99.99% safe, all the way down to 0.01% safe.

Surely 99.999% safe is also less than 100% safe.

Did you mean "Anything less than 99.99% safe"?

When you have a vaccine thats being administered to billions of people

To quote your good self: Oh my god, how can you be this stupid? I was specifically talking about the United States, not the entire world!

How many people do you think are in the United States?

anything less than 100% would be a catastrophe.

So again, you claim that even as little as one medially serious incident every 330,000,000 doses would be a catastrophe.

Most people wouldn't call that a catastrophe.

The problem is that you are deliberately being obnoxious and refusing to concede an obvious point.

Not at all. It is not necessary for any medical intervention to be 100% safe. So long as it is safer than not doing the intervention, it isn't contraindicated.

Surgery has a risk. Antibiotics have a risk. Going to the gym has risks. They are a good idea (for things that they treat) if they are less risky than not doing them. The demand for them to be 100% safe is not the test for whether they should be done.

we know from the VAERS database that the covid vaccine is nowhere near as safe as this

As I have made clear above, the VAERS database cannot determine how safe the vaccine is, because it includes anything people send in. They are not attributable to the vaccine. It is only useful as an indicator of what effect we should consider looking for in a controlled study.

Here is a quote from the article I linked to: ''Allegedly, the whistleblower stated that there are around 11 VAERS systems reporting adverse reactions and deaths across the US, and one system alone has allegedly has reported the shocking 45,000 deaths from the Covid jabs. However, Renz believes that this number is “immensely higher” and is calling for immediate investigations into the VAERS system.''

I agree that that quote is in the article. My point is that claim is wrong, and not supported by plausible data.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/instagram-posts/no-evidence-45000-deaths-covid-19-vaccines/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/45000-people-die-covid-19-vaccine/

''In trials, they use healthy patients to experiment on. In the real world, there are people with serious health problems taking the vaccine.''

I responded to this already: If you have allergies or immune disorders, check with your GP before getting the vaccine.

The CDC also reported 12,313 deaths on their website, before they hastily edited that number down to 6079 deaths.

VAERS is unreliable as a count of deaths. Certainly as a count of deaths due to the vaccine.

If the numbers range about they could be cleaning up reports from antivax bots, or it could be a typo. But it doesn't make any material difference to the guidelines for who should not be vaccinated, because it's an open reporting system, not a controlled study.

Because it had completely escaped your notice that I was talking about the United States and the 45,000 people who have died from the covid vaccine.

Let me show you my response again:

Also keep in mind VAERS is not evidence. It doesn't attribute any side effect to the vaccine. It is merely a vaccine reality show where members of the public vote for their favourite side effect.

To look at if any of those are attributable to the vaccine, you need to look more closely. Or compare vaccinated and unvaccinated groups of a decent size.

Are you blind as well as stupid?

Sorry I couldn't see where you named some vaccines that have been suspended for causing dozens of deaths. Would you mind showing me the paragraph?