all 25 comments

[–]EmergentVoid 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Your money is digital currently

There is a difference between having a choice whether you keep your money digitally or physically and having no choice. The distinction is very important. Physical money brings control to you - you decide when and how you spend it and don't have to share with anyone what you spent it on. When you have no choice and have to keep your money digitally then the control is entirely with the owners of the banking/money system.

Blockchain privacy

What's your point on privacy vs secrecy? What advantage does blockchain's privacy bring? Do you think you will be able to audit Bill Gates if we are all on a blockchain system? Why would the money makers put a system in place (blockchain - bad privacy, no secrecy) that makes it less advantageous for them?

Let's talk about privacy first. Go ahead and reach in your pocket for me.

Same thing - choice. You can choose to leave your telephone at home if you don't want google to know where you've been. You can choose to not use internet services that collect data on you. Most choose to live with the surveillance, but HAVING the choice is extremely important.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

There is a difference between having a choice whether you keep your money digitally or physically and having no choice.

I'm not sure you've done enough to understand all of the requisite material in order to have this discussion.

Those papers in your wallet decrease in value significantly over the course of a measly few years. Its value is being tremendously diluted and constantly. Yes, you're correct that you have limitless permissions with cash and that it's been that way for over 100 years, where previous stores of value allowed significantly increased freedom. The difference now is that digital money does not have to have stringent restrictions like you've been largely convinced. Hell, one of the selling points of the bulk of Blockchain currencies is a permission-less system.

Now, let's put cash aside for a moment, since you're seemingly the exception to the debit/credit card adoption phenomenon. Maybe you should be reminded that you're standing on an island, essentially alone. Very, very few people use solely cash these days. Do you want to buy a house? You won't have an easy time finding a seller who will take all of the cash up front. It's the same with a vehicle. Hell, the vast majority of the people out there don't have the means to purchase a cell phone this way.

I think you're living in a bubble, my friend. Credit/Debit adoption is significantly deeper than you seem to notice.

What's your point on privacy vs secrecy? What advantage does blockchain's privacy bring? Do you think you will be able to audit Bill Gates if we are all on a blockchain system? Why would the money makers put a system in place (blockchain - bad privacy, no secrecy) that makes it less advantageous for them?

Please reread the excerpt from the Cypherpunk Manifesto that I posted. Afterward, just go ahead and read the whole thing at the link I offered you.

The advantage that Blockchain's "privacy" brings is that it removes all of the cluttered information that goes along with all of the institutional escrow services, remittance services, and plenty more financial tools. Not only does it put the control of finances in your hands and removes it from the control of banksters, the escrow fee discrepancies alone far outstand the current paradigm.

Do you think you will be able to audit Bill Gates if we are all on a blockchain system?

Yes. Did you think this was clever?...

Why would the money makers put a system in place (blockchain - bad privacy, no secrecy) that makes it less advantageous for them?

Now you're getting it. What is Decentralized Finance? Why are regulators currently scurrying to their wits end to sprint ahead of the Golden Bull run?

Same thing - choice. You can choose to leave your telephone at home if you don't want google to know where you've been. You can choose to not use internet services that collect data on you. Most choose to live with the surveillance, but HAVING the choice is extremely important.

Great point! You can also choose to use IOU Monopoly papers, an inflated, ambiguous magic money counter system that you're not allowed to see (Cue the Wizard of Oz reference further down) and you're free to put keep those Debt-stamped shackles on your wrists and ankles. Go ahead, choose more slavery. Enjoy that.

Instead, I'm going to keep learning more about and educating people about this permission-less, comparatively feel-less, trust-less decentralized distributed ledger technology that the banksters keep offering me rotten apples for if I ignore.

[–]tomatosplat 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I use cash, and there are a lot of us. Even though my employer puts credit card tips on a pay card, I withdraw and spend it in cash. There are gas stations that i dont use because they dont give change for cash. There are stores I dont shop at because they want me to use credit or debt at a self checkout line. I have no problem avoiding these places.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The whole point is that cash is much less dependable: it erodes in terms of values at a staggering rate, especially compared to BTC's zero % depreciation rate, you have been convinced you have control over it and instead a central authority has ultimate control over it, bending you entirely to their whim and more of it is constantly produced without pause all without your say.

I'm trying to explain to you that cash too is entirely valueless. This isn't the case with Blockchain currencies. They are based on Maths. It was designed specifically to disrupt the banksters and the financial system.

Look, lets put what you do on the side for a second. Everyone else is still entirely under a rock. No, everyone doesn't know that cash is worthless, most people use Credit and Debit (which is much more convenient, mind you), way more people than you or I would probably guess are in some kind of debt and the vast majority of people see nothing wrong with this list. The outliers are insignificant in this endeavor. This message isn't for the privy.

I'm fully aware few of you realize what I'm doing for you, but you're going to see the value in what I'm telling you one way or the other. Let's just hope you don't figure it out while you're standing in line buying rope in about fourteen months.

[–]EmergentVoid 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You seem to have completely misunderstood what the great reset is all about. You seem to think it's there to offer you freedom, but I think it's all about taking the little bit of freedom to have a choice in your life you have left away from you. Of course our current system is sub-optimal - the example you cite of not being able to buy certain things for cash are a testament to how much control we have already relinquished. But how is it an improvement if the rest of the little freedoms we still have are taken away? The model of that society is modern day China - except it will be much more restrictive, down to what foods you are allowed to eat and how much energy you are allowed to consume.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Again, I'm not advocating their preference. What I think would be optimal is to take a "Reset" approach, similar to NESARA/GESARA, and debut digital currencies to the proles. I'm not saying that what Schwab has planned is a good idea. Instead, what I'm trying to suggest is that a sort of "Reset" is inevitable anyway, considering the gargantuan plummet the USD will inevitably see, as per its failing design.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in the beginning: the point of this post was to reassure what appears to be misguided normies. Many of them are falling for demoralization tactics, which utilize FUD tactics, which are designed to scare them away from cryptocurrencies, which are designed to obscure their ability to comprehend the very thing you've pointed out - that we've already relinquished significant ground in terms of financial freedoms - We already have no privacy; we already have no financial freedoms. The problem with all of this is that too many are scared to death of the inevitable alternative: a wider array of digital assets as well as the expungement of the current USD, at least as the world reserve currency.

I never meant to say that all of the things that Schwab and his goons are vying for are beneficial to any of us. Instead, I'm trying to get people to see that it matters who controls the financial levers. If /ourguys/ can control the financial levers and adequately decentralize what's tainted through centralization, we can do a complete 180 and, instead of dismay and significant restrictions of liberty, we can fix what's broken, innovate the financial world such that it reflects the necessary requisites for mending our global economic woes and we can return the power of personal finance to individuals.

I do realize that I never quite got to the point and that was a mistake. Thanks for pointing this out.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

So you agree a privacy is a necessity and yet you still advocate a cashless society.

conflates transparent public blockchains with privacy

"we can be fooled in to rerouting that energy to a system that further indebts us to our slavers."

This is you.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Your problem is that you have yet to realize that your "cash" is backed by nothing. It never was. The people that print those papers own plenty of aspects of government. They print those papers and you're not allowed to stop them, you're not allowed to see the process, you're not allowed to see where all of the papers go and you aren't allowed to make them print less, even.

Why are you not searching for an alternative? You used to be able to buy a house for a few hundred bucks. Now it takes hundreds of thousands at a weak median. Your apathy in the face of innovation is repugnant. You are treated like cattle for good reason.

You may find an alternative if you allow yourself. All I'm doing is giving you an early warning.

Do not confuse my words. I do not enjoy what Schwab has planned, or the others he conspires with. Instead, I'm advocating for an inverted version of their plans, one where we usher in a new era of Decentralized Finance, one where humans aren't largely just debt slaves and one where we have more control over what happens to our central currency should we choose to agree to use one.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I'm advocating for an inverted version of their plans

The state says no. The state has more guns. The state says we should keep centralizing everything until there is one government, one bank, one corporation, one capital, and the world outside of it is filled with destitute slums. And swarms of drones, to prevent people from doing things without a license. What now?

Your problem is that you have yet to realize that your "cash" is backed by nothing.

Everyone knows. But your physical account can't just "accidentally" get canceled. They have to catch you, beat you, do something with you. Something, that other people can see.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don't need to play your game of hypotheticals. Thanks though.

They have to catch you, beat you, do something with you. Something, that other people can see.

This makes your first point sort of awkward, doesn't it?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Hipotheticals? Have you missed all the recent anti-bitcoin laws? The governments don't want any decentralization. They won't allow it.

Awkward? Have you missed all the recent account cancellations that dissidents and disobedient companies got to enjoy all around the world? Not only from the banks.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm not here offering you my attention so you can "what if" me over and over.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm advocating for an inverted version of their plans

How? Where are you planning to get the power to fight against the combined forces of all the states on this planet?

[–]369[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It will take a lot more than riches and muscle.

I'm not an army, sure, but you seem to be advocating for apathy. Be my guest.

[–]EmergentVoid 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you don't share Schwab's dystopian vision, perhaps you should have phrased the topic differently, because right now it sounds like you are an apologist for Schwab's great reset plan.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd like to explain why this is the wrong sentiment to have.

Sure, that could have been worded better. Maybe it should have read something like, "The Great Reset, as planned by Schwab and his ilk, isn't what we want, but there is an alternative."

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

conflates transparent public blockchains with privacy

Oh, maybe that did seem confusing and I don't think I explained that well enough:

The ledger is entirely public, yes. This is why we can audit Bill Gates (people spending less money are much harder to track, but this guy has shitloads, so he would only be vastly hindered by trying to go through all of that effort to obscure small, to him, amounts of cash. Anyway, although the ledger is public, you have increased amounts of privacy because the only interaction that your transaction has beyond you is with the other address you send funds to. This cuts out the banksters, this cuts out payment processing companies, data aggregates that sell your data to think tanks and shit, and so, so much more. Maybe I didn't explain this well enough after all.

There's a difference between the ledger being public and announcing all of your transactions through banks, payment processors and all of the rest of the groups involved in making simple transactions. Please read the Cypherpunk Manifesto.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

People like Bill Gates would never make all his transactions public like with Bitcoin. Please read about Monero if you're serious about privacy.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Monero, DASH, Zcash and plenty more are great examples.

You're not understanding the difference here still, it appears.

Bill Gates cares nothing of $20k, right? The reality is, that's most people's bank account. Hell, most people, in all actuality, have far less than that number in their bank account. For Bill to care at all about other avenues of value exchange, they have to offer him some kind of utility. The inconvenience alone of washing numbers that soothe his appetite, closer to the range of millions, are kept close track of by the crypto community at large. The people with large holdings like this are called whales. These whales and their exchanges are monitored closely. Most people do this so that they can profit off of the instincts of people that have already done well enough for themselves.

Bill Gates unquestionably would be audited under this system. Anyone with that kind of money would never involve that many people in their schemes, just to wash money in this way. Look, even cash itself has this same pitfall - this is why Gates was a horrible example - this is why the trope of the briefcase is so pervasive in theater: you see a huge briefcase or two, you know people are moving big money around. Hell, Walter White had to keep all of his cash in a shipping container.

I'm sorry my friend, but it's hard to take you seriously. I'm trying to help you guys here. It's unfortunate that the extent of your cognizance is a bunch of "what if"s. Maybe, instead of pointing out low hanging fruit, try asking me some questions...

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Dash is not a good example mate and the fact that you even mentioned it shows just how clueless you are.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You seem to get distracted very easily.

Cryptocurrency exchange ShapeShift recently delisted three privacy coins: Dash, Zcash (ZEC) and Monero (XMR). This was an unexpected move to say the least, given the exchange’s historic commitment to privacy.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/dash-objects-to-shapeshift-culling-of-privacy-coins

It feels like you're scrambling to point out a flaw. I hope you know what you're passing up.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What's your point here? It's classified as a privacy coin even though its dog shit. You would know that already if you were serious about privacy and had done your research.

You seem to get distracted very easily.

It's not easy to get through your dunning-kruger dribble.

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's no surprise to me, at this point, that there's no real progress to be made with you. It seems you don't want to progress.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Huh? Are you a bot?

[–]369[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's exactly what I was just thinking.

Go drool somewhere else.