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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

In Capitalism you must already have capital to gain more, or at the very least gain the favor of someone who already has it.

It's very rare in an entirely capitalist society to see someone go from a lowly worker to a member of the capitalist elite. It definitely happens, but it would happen a lot more in an economic system like Corporatism. (Which some people think is still Capitalism, but I see it as a syncretic ideology.)

Capitalism is definitely is not an equal society. Equality before the law cannot be present in a capitalist society, for the courts are influenced by greed. Furthermore, equality of opportunity cannot be achieved when everyone starts on a different playing field.

Meanwhile Socialism sacrifices true equality in the name of "equality of outcome," which is really just a fancy term for inequality. If someone who works hard gets the same reward as someone who doesn't work at all, that is inherently unequal.

We must reject all forms of Materialism — Capitalism and Socialism — and instead pursue a system of National Corporatism. We must devote ourselves not to greed and envy, but rather to the Nation. Only then shall true equality be possible. Only then shall the classes live in harmony.

[–]ReeferMadness 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

In Capitalism you must already have capital to gain more

Bullshit. Get a job. Convince someone with money to invest in your startup. Provide someone a service that they are willing to pay you for.

It's very rare in an entirely capitalist society to see someone go from a lowly worker to a member of the capitalist elite.

Bullshit again. Capitalist societies have the HIGHEST class mobility. Rare is relative, and compared to everything else it is the least rare.

it would happen a lot more in an economic system like Corporatism.

Stop comparing real world results to fantasy results. Prove that you have a better system on a smaller scale with other people who believe what you believe. Don't make baseless claims because you imagine something is better and expect everyone to go along with it.

Capitalism is definitely is not an equal society.

Bullshit. The "inequality" you see is inequity and comes from the accrued gains of those who worked harder, smarter, and better. Society did not start when you were born. Advantages were earned.

Corruption exists, but it exists everywhere. Capitalism is least susceptible to corruption. It offers the most opportunity for success. And creates the environment for the most advancement.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If you didn't say "bullshit" every other sentence, and pretend like it was some form of argument, perhaps you would appear more mature and adult-like, rather than rude and childish, but I digress.

Get a job.

Someone working at McDonald's will barely be able to survive, let alone start a business. The problem with Capitalism is that it requires everyone to own a business in order to be well-off — which is insanity!

And even those who do own businesses, many of them are treated as poorly as the Workers! Unless you're a CEO of a mega-corporation you might as well be trash in Capitalism.

Convince someone with money to invest in your startup

You literally — and perhaps intentionally — failed to include the part of the quoted sentence in which I say exactly that.

Provide someone a service that they are willing to pay you for.

Those who start-out with less capital are less capable of providing a service that one is willing to pay for — and even if they are, it won't be to a large extent, or perhaps even to the extent required to cover the costs of business.

Capitalist societies have the HIGHEST class mobility.

Even if it is — which is isn't: Corporatism would be better — the requirement for class mobility is absurd. We need different classes.

Stop comparing real world results to fantasy results.

The correct word is theoretical, and I would remind you that before Capitalism was tried it began as a theory — one which has led to the betterment of humanity, but has now become obsolete. It's time for a new theory to be tried.

Prove that you have a better system on a smaller scale with other people who believe what you believe.

That's the plan.

Don't make baseless claims because you imagine something is better

It's called a hypothesis, which is a key element of the scientific method. Before testing something one should formulate a hypothesis: an idea of what the results may look like.

The "inequality" you see is inequity and comes from the accrued gains of those who worked harder, smarter, and better.

Working-class people who work harder and better than CEOs and investors get paid much less. The stereotype that all Workers are inherently lazy and dumb, and that all Capitalists are inherently hard-working and lazy is a dangerous and severely incorrect prejudice.

The inequality I see is inequality of opportunity: the poor, although perhaps more able, are less capable due to a lack of capital. It's like giving a construction worker a single brick and telling him to build a whole house — he won't be able to do it, no matter how skilled he may be!

Corruption exists, but it exists everywhere.

That is true.

Capitalism is least susceptible to corruption.

When your entire economic system is based upon greed, don't be surprised when you get corruption. Socialism is inherently corrupt, but Capitalism is prone to becoming corrupt.

[–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Corporatism would be better

Fantasy economics is fantasy.

It's time for a new theory to be tried.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Go fix North Korea. The probability that you will make things worse is a million times higher than the probability that you will take the greatest society to ever exist and make it better. Especially when you don't even understand what proof of concept is.

Working-class people who work harder and better than CEOs and investors get paid much less.

Yeah, you missed the point. If I build an automated farm and then lounge around being fed for free I deserve it, I earned it, I built it. My neighbor who tills with a hoe and plants seeds individually works much harder and will always claim he is smarter too. When I leave my farm to my kids that is my right as a free man. That is what it means to have accrued gains. My kids may be lazy morons, but I built that farm for them.

I made my society better by inventing the automated farm. If you take away my freedom to invent and benefit from my inventions and investments, and benefit my kids you will be left with a society of morons who starve whenever the weather is bad.

As far as there may be inventors who are unable to invent due to poverty, that is a tiny minority of people. Find a better way to empower them than destroying society with socialist bullshit. You can't give everyone free money and d expect it to not be squandered. One in a million would actually make it grow.

Welfare states create welfare queens not inventors. That is just the cold hard truth.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Fantasy economics is fantasy.

The correct word is theoretical, and I would remind you that before Capitalism was tried it began as a theory — one which has led to the betterment of humanity, but has now become obsolete. It's time for a new theory to be tried.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Tell that to the millions living in poverty — or those who have to go without the medical treatment they need — or the patriots who's way of life is being destroyed by the banks.

Capitalism is broken. Not for you — not for the elite — but it is for the People.

If I build an automated farm and then lounge around being fed for free I deserve it, I earned it

Yes, but most CEOs didn't do that, or at the very least not most investors — don't forget that most of them are just born into rich families and throw their money behind people doing the real work.

My neighbor who tills with a hoe and plants seeds individually works much harder

But he didn't work more efficiently, which is what you did in this scenario. The disparity in wealth makes sense in these circumstances — because you genuinely contributed to humanity, rather than just cutting corners and manipulating Consumers like most mega-corporations do.

My kids may be lazy morons, but I built that farm for them.

Yes, and they're entitled to that, but they aren't entitled billions and billions of dollars, with which they use to bribe politicians and kill small businesses.

If you take away my freedom to invent and benefit from my inventions and investments, and benefit my kids you will be left with a society of morons who starve whenever the weather is bad.

If you take out the "whenever the weather is bad" part, that's basically Communism.

What I want is Corporatism, which solved many problems present in Capitalism, while avoiding the pitfalls of state control of the economy.

As far as there may be inventors who are unable to invent due to poverty, that is a tiny minority of people.

Inventors, maybe, but innovators: they are who we need, and who are unable to realize their full potential under dictatorships of Capital and Labor.

Find a better way to empower them than destroying society with socialist bullshit.

Like making the class system harmonious rather than chaotic, and allowing the various organs of the Nation to work together towards the betterment of our People. The only way to save American from Socialism is the embrace Corporatism. Dictatorships of Capital and Labor are unsustainable, it's time for a true Democracy.

Welfare states create welfare queens not inventors

Where did I propose a welfare state? Or perhaps you just assumed that because I disagree with you on an issue that I must be the polar opposite of you in every conceivable way?

[–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Tell that to the millions living in poverty

Capitalism is not responsible for poverty. Once again poverty is the lowest in capitalist societies. I am for social safety nets. But they need to be limited. Poverty can not be eliminated. Claims to the contrary are bullshit.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Capitalism is not responsible for poverty.

Even though we waste enough resources to properly take care of our People, and the fact that a small handful of Liberal elite control the vast majority of wealth, while the vast majority of people are left with but a sliver of the pie.

poverty is the lowest in capitalist societies

It would be lower in a corporatist society.

I am for social safety nets. But they need to be limited.

Yes, they do. The welfare state only hurts the economy in the end with its perverse incentives.

Poverty can not be eliminated.

Relatively-speaking: no. Objectively-speaking: yes. If we pursue economic growth that benefits everyone, rather than just the billionaires, then we can achieve a society in which everyone's basic needs are met — even if not surpassed.