Zizek Challenges Peterson

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[–]Canbot[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I fundamentally agree with Jordan Peterson on this point, but in this clip he seems to totally fail in addressing the question. I can't stand Sylvester the cat, but he is incredibly popular in the "I'm 12 and this is deep" crowd, and even I have to admit that he asks a very good question here.

TL;DW

The question is: What if in trying to set your house in order you discover that your house is in disorder precisely because of the way society is messed up?

[–]polync 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What if in trying to set your house in order you discover that your house is in disorder precisely because of the way society is messed up?

Seriously, what could that be? Like CIA or KGB send agents to keep your plates unwashed? Or maybe the way a country leader is chosen (elected on a public election, elected in a politbureau, or come up through a military coup) directly affects your ability to clean up your sink? I'm only half-joking, just trying to conceive a way the society organization could mess up with ones ability to clean-up own room.

[–]Canbot[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"setting your house in order" can be getting an education. If you are banned from attending school that would be an example. If you want a contemporary example you would have to ask a socialist. But the question assumes you found something. I think it is a tall order to prove that nothing like that could exist, and short of that it would be foolish to simply assume it can't.

[–]polync 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Are you talking about a formal education or informal one? If formal, are you talking about the higher education? Because that's a luxury, not a necessity. I hardly recall any society in the modern history aside from Khmer Rouge that would as a whole intentionally try to force you out of any education at all.

I recall that in US the formal high-level non-STEM education is a huge system around money. However I hardly believe that getting an arts degree or a literature study degree is a necessity for one to get his house in order.

[–]Canbot[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I was thinking in line with No-blacks type policies in college as well as segregation into essentially ineffective schools. The point isn't what the policy is, the point is simply that "setting your house in order" does not literally mean cleaning your home. The example can be any oppressive policy, intentional or unintentional, that holds you back. Proving that such a thing exists is also besides the question. The question assumes that such a thing exists.

So what is one to do in that kind of situation?

The point is that socialists believe that the system is holding them down, and simply arguing about whether that is true or not over and over is tiresome and unproductive. This is question is posed as a thought experiment to further the conversation.

[–]polync 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Peterson refers to One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich on multiple occasions, and also links "setting your house in order" to taking a personal responsibility for whatever small part of life you could control.

So I may mistake, but it reads "first you have to sort out things of which you have a full control, and only then depart to fighting some restrictions other people put upon you". It's just having a degree in this sense is similar to a driving license. Some other people (aka society) have put some quite arbitrary restrictions on these activities for whatever reason. For instance in many countries being a red-green blind would prevent you from obtaining the license. So what? You still have plenty of things in your life. Yes, you couldn't use this privilege. But you're still able to take responsibility of some other parts of your life, and you should do so.