The Real Purpose Of Socialism Is Precisely To Advance Beyond The Predatory Phase Of Human Development - Albert Einstein

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[–]Druullus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (78 children)

So what if it happens in Capitalism?

[–]DoubleReverse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (65 children)

Corporations make you work away your life under terrible conditions in exchange for barely enough money to stay alive. Remind you of anything?

[–]Chipit 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (31 children)

Actually corporate workers are rather well paid. Far better paid than under socialism.

[–]DoubleReverse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

https://www.brookings.edu/research/meet-the-low-wage-workforce/

I'm sure the almost half of all employed Americans who make less than living wage will be thrilled to know that they're actually rather well paid. Thank you for being the one who has the heart to stand up for the wealthy elite, downtrodden as they are.

[–]Chipit 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Those aren't corporate workers. Corporate jobs are white collar jobs.

And come on, you're a socialist. Don't even pretend you give a shit about the working class! It's all about identity politics now. The old-fashioned "we're on the side of the working class" got shitcanned a long time ago.

The left's visceral hatred of the working class overflowed like a broken sewer when John McCain chose Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate in 2008. It would be impossible, and disturbing, to attempt to identify the single most offensive comment that leftists lobbed at Palin. One can report that attacks on Palin were so egregious that leftists themselves publicly begged that they cease; after all, they gave the left a bad name. The Reclusive Leftist wrote that it was a "major shock" to discover "the extent to which so many self-described liberals actually despise working people."

The cultural distance between far left and working class people is now vast and I see little reason why that should change. Here's a really good explanation of why this happened, the best I've ever seen. Please read it: http://archive.is/QRJ6m

[–]DoubleReverse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Those aren't corporate workers. Corporate jobs are white collar jobs.

They still need a living wage.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Yeah, when you're making $75-150k, you got no problems.

I notice you didn't bother to address the working class issue, that one's a no-win for the left these days. Can't take back the years of ugly bigotry and punching down. Can't shake the devil's hand then say you're only kidding.

[–]DoubleReverse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Yeah, when you're making $75-150k, you got no problems.

The issue is that most people aren't making 75-150k$.

I notice you didn't bother to address the working class issue

I'm the one advocating for higher working class wages, you're clearly just trying to change the subject.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Well, then you are clearly not on the same page with the rest of the left. The working class voted for Trump. They betrayed you. It's time for revenge. If you're going to pretend not to understand this attitude, here's a good example:

We have a whole planet to save. We don't need to "bring the jobs back". We need to do the job of saving the planet. We give these people jobs, what are they going to spend their money on? Meth and oxy. They are racist to the bone. That is obvious. They don't deserve to be sugar-coated. There is no reason to bend over backward to understand their motivation for voting for the guy who has a neo-nazi as his top advisor. America voted for hate.

Life expectancy among exactly one group is declining - the working class. Everyone else is getting better, often significantly. Let's let this trend continue and we can turn America into a left-wing majority country, open the borders, and welcome the world to share its culture with us.

Trump lied to them about jobs. They chose the lie. Clinton told them the truth. And they hated her for it. Let's give the working class whatever they want. In the hope they choke on it. These are not your friends.

There are plenty of immigrants who would love the unearned privilege of being born in America that these jackholes have. If these losers vote for a man who wants to take away their social security, transfer even more wealth to the top 0.1% and shred whatever remains of their communities, then they deserve to get what they are going to get, good and hard. I hope they lose everything.

I am not going to justify working class behavior, their inability to function in a changing economy, their shallow ethnonationalism, their entitlement, their stupidity. They deserve the worst that the Trump Administration gives them, and then they can either decide to vote for change, or they can fuck off and die. Really done with them. Tired of sucking up to them.

[–]DoubleReverse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So you think the working class should be satisfied with poverty while a miniscule segment of the population controls most of the national wealth? Is that why you're trying to change the subject with ad hominem bulletin? You can try all you like to convince me that I hate the working classroom, but you're the one arguing against our interests.

[–]Druullus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

Americans are extremely well paid.

[–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

The poverty is just our imagination?

[–]Druullus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

There are about 7.8 billion, Americans are at the top.

[–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

That's delightful, but our bosses should be paying us a living wage instead of maximizing their own personal profits.

[–]Druullus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Delightful how?

[–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

In that it's largely irrelevant to the fact that so many American workers aren't getting paid enough to afford their basic needs while the company executives make more than the whole rest of the workforce combined.

[–]Druullus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

How do the Corporations do that?

[–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

By suppressing wages and pocketing the excess. By charging as much as they can for as little as possible. By running propaganda mills like the alt right to keep pro-corporate and anti-labor, anti-consumer conservatives in office.

[–]Druullus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (30 children)

What is stopping you/anyone else from outcompeting those corporations?

[–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

Easier said than done, but that's beside the point. All workers need a living wage, not just successful entrepreneurs.

[–]Druullus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

The point is that people who own/run corporations make to much money? What is stopping you/anyone else from outcompeting those corporations, while hiring the workers?

What is a living wage?

[–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

The point is that they could afford not to underpay their employees, but they still do.

What is stopping you/anyone else from outcompeting those corporations, while hiring the workers?

I don't have the time, money, or risk capacity to start a business and even if I did I'd be outcompeted by giant corporations who have money, political influence, predatory business models, and a total lack of scruples. What's your point?

What is a living wage?

Enough to pay for your basic needs and still have enough left over for savings or discretionary.

[–]Druullus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

My point is why don't you/anyone else start/run corporations and pay the employees what you want?

Aren't there any people with time, money, risk capacity etc who want to outcompete the giant corporations who have money, political influence, predatory business models, and a total lack of scruples?

[–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

Yes, and they get outcompeted by people who are willing to screw over their employees and consumers to save money.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

What is "it"?

[–]Druullus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

But you can't pretend like this doesn't happen in Capitalism.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

This = force and violence.

[–]Druullus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Private ownership, the price system, free trade, property rights, voluntary exchange and freedom of choice etc; is based on force and violence.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Yes. You cannot have anything without enforcing it through violence.

[–]Druullus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Then it's not Capitalism!

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Then Capitalism doesn't exist.

[–]Druullus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

We have government intervention/distortions.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Even without the government, you need to enforce the system through violence. It's not the non-violence principle, it's the non-aggression principle. Anarcho-Capitalism (which I believe you support?) allows violence so long as it's in self-defense or in defense of one's property. You just can't be the aggressor.