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[–]missdaisycan[S] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (27 children)

LOL. Bite me. Tell me where I'm wrong in presenting my opinion!

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Uh, the fact it's all based on a gigantic cultural mythos that pretends we aren't just animals? Every single time people have run dating simulations or interactions, done more than just ask people their opinion, they consistently find the overwhelming factor is attractiveness.

As it turns out, everyone kind of goes for the most attractive person they can. But in iterations of pairing-off, people consequently end up paired with people more like themselves in attractiveness. This originally lead old researchers in the 1940s to erroneously conclude there was "assortative mating" going on, people choosing those like themselves, but that has long since been debunked (by hatfield for one). In other words, all your "advice" is kind of pointless. There's only one deciding factor: Be as attractive as you can be, and you'll have far more chances than if you aren't. Personality, opinions, etc, literally do not even factor in. People claim they do, but that isn't what studies on reality and what people DO actually shows.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This is a bit myopic of the factors studied for attractiveness. Yes, you can get dental correction, and yes you can wear makeup if you're female, exercise, and avoid being fat or slovenly. However, most people do these things as it is, and even after these are still fairly average. Height is a considerable factor that you cannot, without great personal risk and a lot of money most people won't see, significantly alter. Baldness can be delayed for some, but not most. And it's with some irony that for a lot of these things the answer is "just be rich" - but even then wealth only does so much.

    To be clear, I do not disagree with keeping yourself as attractive as you can make yourself. In fact, I encourage it. For your mental and physical health, and your social health. But let's not pretend as if people can transform into an Adonis, and pretend the economic and social consequences of attractiveness are not beyond our control. They are. However many billions people have, the richest among us can only pay for so much, because we're still quite limited. The point I must press upon you is that people get their lot in life, and their treatment in life, still largely beyond their control no matter how much modification is attempted. The only way to deal with reality, and be properly sympathetic to those suffering it, is to accept it. Denying it is the height of cruelty, because it doesn't change how people treat others in the least.

    Think of it this way: Pretending it don't real, people's natural responses heighten that cruelty and disparity. But perhaps, knowing your kneejerk reaction is to treat those less attractive less favorably, being truly aware of yourself, can result in more kindness.

    [–]insta 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

    The idea that there just is this vague thing called "being attractive" isn't really true, I don't think .... I said anyone can be attractive - we all have the same stuff. Two eyes, a nose, and a mouth.

    Bruh.

    [–]Grateful 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

    Uh, the fact it's all based on a gigantic cultural mythos that pretends we aren't just animals? Every single time people have run dating simulations or interactions, done more than just ask people their opinion, they consistently find the overwhelming factor is attractiveness.

    I can't argue with these sentences, however doesn't this basically agree with what the OP wrote? What the OP listed are things are attractive to some people. Voice, scent, posture, clothes, hairstyle, being "comfortable" with oneself (aka confidence), ethics/morals are things people find attractive about others. Would a man find a woman attractive if she has an annoying voice, she smells bad, slouches excessively, wears ugly clothes, has an unattractive hairstyle, an annoying personality and bad morals?

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    That would be if, in fact, they loaded into the factor of "attractiveness". Slouching might, but so-called "confidence" does not. It's of course one of the first things people looked at and one of the common things tested, but either attractiveness is considered synonymous with confidence or it's irrelevant (again, actual testing, not people's opinions). Posture will not make a 5 as attractive as a 7 no matter how different their postures are. Same goes with voice, you cannot radically alter your voice as it's genetically determined by the muscles and shape of your vocal chords. The same goes for "personality", because people consistently (one of the findings of Elaine Hatfield & co) find more attractive people having better personalities.

    Naturally, externalities like bad hair or clothing do factor in, but little. Think of it like putting polish on a turd or a diamond. All this can do is bring out what naturally is already attractive, it generally can't and doesn't improve what's already there. Meaning the advice, such as it is, where it is applicable, would rarely have any significant effect except on the most slovenly. If you'd want my advice, there are two most significant factors people can control: 1. Don't be fat, 2. Exercise a lot.

    [–]Grateful 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

    In general, I agree but confidence is really important and shouldnt be dismissed.

    I think people are like Christmas trees. Clothes, hairstyle, grooming, odors, posture etc are the ornaments, and they make the tree look better. If you have a Charlie Brown Christmas tree, there's only so much you can do with it, however some decorations will help.

    Basically, we all get dealt a hand in life but we still play the cards and the game. Height is something we cant change, but "clothes make the man" and they make the woman too.

    Don't be fat and exercise a lot is good advice for anyone, even from a general health point of view.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Well, no, again this is the problem with our perceptions. Quite literally the more attractive you are the more positively and confident you are perceived to be, irrespective of your own self assessment or anything you do or say. Again something found with many many tests of interactions and dating simulations where people rank one another, comparing married people and friends, asking people to rank one another personality while others rank attractiveness, etc.

    I cannot say this enough: "What is beautiful is good". Positive personality attributes are given to attractive people, negative ones to ugly ones. A "Confident" ugly person is actually perceived as worse than one who isn't, they're seen as pushy or aggressive or creepy. It's all been studied before. The absolute least favorably viewed people in dating simulation studies are the ugly ones that are assertive.

    [–]cybitch 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    This is called the halo effect. It works for all situations in life, not just dating. People with better bone structure are granted a bunch of other positive traits based on it, whether there's a reason to or not. I'm guessing it's probably because when we evolved, before modern medicine, physical health could make or break you in a lot of ways. In modern days, medicine can compensate, so that now you don't need to be born with great health in order to do well by society, however our subconscious minds failed to keep up with the progress.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Might want to reply that to Grateful as well. Sadly, unless they fixed this when I wasn't looking, your message to me won't notify the participants in the thread.

    [–]cybitch 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    IMO, confidence is not something that precedes positive interactions with others, but a result of them. Attractiveness has been proven to play a crucial role in getting good grades, getting job interviews, just generally getting what you want. This applies even in situations where there is no confidence, like when people only have photos to go on, or in experiments where people are asking others for help of some kind and try to appear sympathetic, rather than confident.

    This is called the halo effect. It works for all situations in life, not just dating. People with better bone structure are granted a bunch of other positive traits based on it, whether there's a reason to or not. I'm guessing it's probably because when we evolved, before modern medicine, physical health could make or break you in a lot of ways. In modern days, medicine can compensate, so that now you don't need to be born with great health in order to do well by society, however our subconscious minds failed to keep up with the progress.

    [–]missdaisycan[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

    Um, I am of the opinion that women may find factors other than the conventionally "attractive" attracitive, like voice timber, cadence, tone, etc, or body presentation over facial, or that smell can be very important; all possible measures of attractiveness to women, from a women's perspective. If you choose to say I'm incorrect, be it. However, I am a woman, and I do say it, so (raspberry)!

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    Of course you do. Do you also believe people are good at self knowledge let alone really aware of what they do and why? The entire field of psychology routinely shows that to be false. For example, the more attractive somebody is the more likely you are to think their personality is like yours -- even if it's the exact opposite. And this is repeated over and over again in dating simulations where people are asked to evaluate others in terms of personality, or in interpersonal meetings and other tests.

    You can either come to acknowledge you're an animal, and your mind plays tricks on you like it does everyone else, or think yourself special. Which would you rather think most likely? I can send you literature reviews or something on attractiveness in mating or relationships if you want, but it's kind of pointless if you don't care to read them with smug certainty you already know better.

    [–]missdaisycan[S] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

    Hon, I've got a degree in Biology, so, really, I'm the first to call Homo Sapiens animals. Again, to try your reading comprehension, I was attempting to elucidate the female perspective on male attractiveness for heterosexual adult human males. If you are not interested in my perspective, have a great life, and good bye.

    [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Really? So do you think the "female perspective on the operations of a cell" are important? I'm sorry but individual "perspectives" on the basis of arbitrary things like sex are not exactly useful where research is concerned. Especially when that research is consistent, universal, the same for both sexes, and probably the strongest finding in all of human psychology. There's also plenty of research analyzing individual components of attractiveness, such as symmetry, height, body mass proportions, and it has little to nothing to do with anything you talked about.

    You can claim you're a biologist, but you certainly don't think with a scientific mind if you think your opinions matter without evidence.

    [–]missdaisycan[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Sigh. Where did I cite "research"? I was throwing out a perspective which I wished young, heterosexual males would consider. You don't like it - be it. I will flat out admit my opinion to be anecdotal - based upon my own preferences and those l have personally heard from other women, older, contemporaneous, and younger than, myself. And how judgmental of you to remark upon my scientific mindset when I only confirmed that Homo Sapiens Sapiens is an animal.
    Final time, bye now. Edit: spelling

    [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    Where did I site "research"?

    That's the problem.

    [–]missdaisycan[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Already corrected on my own. I am not infallible.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I wasn't talking about the typo. I was talking about the lack of research.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    you're wrong about basically everything

    [–]SaidOverRed 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Uh okay. "Visual is important to women, but may not be the first bait." Did you ever see that ABC (or was it NBC report) where women refused to consider dating a short man. He was normal, not ugly, but he was like 5'1. Even if he was a millionaire they laughed and said they would only consider it if their other options were criminals. I'm sure you've seen the tinder graph comparing bell graphs for men rating women versus the lopsided one for women rating men. I won't link it since I have an uncommon interpretation on the data.

    So, not to repeat incel talking points, but I suppose I could dig up that venn diagram suggesting that women are less aware of their superficiality than men. It's an open debate over who is more, but the data is clear that the importance men place on things is about correct with their actual actions, where as women have a larger variation in how they think they are making choices compared to how they actually make them. This might not be a bad thing, although I (like others) suspect that it is.

    [–]BVKJHHJGJHGCJHGFJGFJ 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

    i once went to mexico and had sex with both of the donkey show girls, and i liked what you wroted.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    is there only 2 in all of Mexico?

    [–]BVKJHHJGJHGCJHGFJGFJ 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    almost every time that i would take a taxi in this one border town, the driver would ask me if i want to go to boys town.. usually my answer was no, but i finally went there.. it is a really strange place.. there will be door after door of young hookers, pleading with me to join me in their rooms.. nah.. but then i walked into the donkey show club, it was very early, this club opens fairly late.. it was about seven or eight oclock.. the donkey was there, tied up to a pole.. and there were two very sweet girls sitting in a restaurant style booth.. i was already shitfaced drunk.. nobody else in the club, just me and the donkey and the two girls.. i asked the two girls if they are the ones that do the donkey show.. they said yes.. i said, both of you and me now.. it cost me a couple of hundred.. they were truly the softest and sweetest girls that i have ever been with.. absolutely spectacular..

    i was the donkey for that show.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    then the donkey stood up and clapped

    [–]BVKJHHJGJHGCJHGFJGFJ 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    the donkey was on stage in the main room of the club, me and the girls were in a back room, most likely i was in their private bedroom.

    [–]MBII 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Shut up cunt