The right wing to left wing ratio on this site seems to be pretty skewed and it'd be nice if it wasnt

submitted by TheSeventhSense from self.whatever

Hey all,

It seems like that outside the GC sub most of this site seems to be hard right wing as is common with all free speech websites. Since a lot of right wing positions tend to be pushed off the mainstream websites, they seem to find haven on sites like these and it quickly devolves into George Soros conspiracies among other questionable things.

This is not to say that all right wing opinions are questionable, far from it, but it does dissuade people who may be more left wing from participating because their views seem so unwelcome, especially when the entire comment thread on certain s/politics threads skew one way.

I realize that reddit had the same problem but with the left wing dominating the platform, but I feel that we can do better here to get a balanced ratio between both view points. I suspect that as reddit and other sites turn off more and more people, we may get a bigger influx of left wingers.

For now though, if we all stay away from ad homs and debate in good faith we should be mostly fine. Just decided to make an observation that im sure many here already made.

EDIT: Just wanted to clarify that conspiracy theories can be apoltical and don't want the post to come off as only right wingers are capable of spewing conspiracies.

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[–]TheBeefBenson 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I'm a classical liberal and I really don't like all the actually racist and far right (white nationalist) politics on here. That being said, pointing out that George Soros is a direct threat to liberty and western civilisation is not a conspiracy theory and I hope you take the time to do a bit of research on that. He is one of the chief financiers behind the total overhaul of the west into what resembles communist China.

[–]america_first_1776 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why is it "racist" to be a white nationalist?

[–]jet199Instigatrix 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah, it's pretty hard to see how one opinionated billionaire interfering in national policy is something the left wing should be pleased about.

[–]TheBeefBenson 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Well they certainly hate trump for that reason, or so they say, so it's only fair to give Soros the same treatment.

However, I think it's just been drilled in so thoroughly, by left wing media unsurprisingly, that criticising Soros is a far right talking point that they've grown to accept it.

Lastly, I think many people are still confused about the difference between being a leftie and being a liberal.

[–]jet199Instigatrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Well it's against every brand of left wing thought. Left wing is anything which is government by the people rather than an elite. Liberalism should in theory work that way by giving people equal rights but doesn't quite in practice because the rich just buy the system.

The trouble is you have a lot of people who think they are better than everyone else declaring they are left wing purely because they think that's the side the good guys are on. But any form of thinking you and people like you are better and need to rule over others will always be right wing.

[–]TheBeefBenson 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Left wing is anything which is government by the people rather than an elite.

The age old utopian delusion of the left. If they govern you they will make themselves an elite. The only thing you can do to ensure the liberty of the people is to limit the power the government wields.

And this dichotomy you're creating is the absolute opposite of reality. Left wing societies are always governed by this ivory tower, champagne socialist elite, because that's what the left wing is. The naive masses who huddle round the authority of the state and the sociopathic opportunists who are all too happy to have authority over them. Libertarianism and anarchism are right wing positions, buddy.

[–]jet199Instigatrix 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Anarchist, ultra liberal and new age traveler hippies are all branch of the left and always have been. You can't go round changing the meanings of words then complain when the woke do the same. Size of government isn't really a left/right policy split outside the US. Even within the US the right often want more police and defence spending, not less.

Someone like Marx was reacting to a century of left wing thinking and failure, he didn't create the left. Socialism is not the only branch.

Many far left wing governments have been anti-intellectual, killed all their liberal elite and have indeed put some farmer in charge of the whole country to try to be more egalitarian, with predictable results.

No society does well with only left or right wing power structures. Most people would want to be able to elect their local mayor but you'd have to be crazy to want your surgeon selected by popular vote. Also minorities tend to be hurt by government by the people as they get trampled by the majority. There is a balance to be struck.

[–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But any form of thinking you and people like you are better and need to rule over others will always be right wing.

Left wing propaganda.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I really should look into more info about George Soros, there's even some conspiracy theories about him, I think. And I'm a Social Liberal.

[–]FediNetizen 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I suggest submitting more of the content you want to see. Find a good thinkpiece about one of the political issues you care about and submit it.

[–]Grateful 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How do you define "right wing"? Is it someone who doesn't support Pelosi, Schumer, Omar, AOC, etc? I'm a liberal but I don't support any of them or their policies.

[–]rdh2121 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Be the change you want to see. You can't be silenced here for your disagreement, so please post the type of content you'd like to see, especially on places like /s/politics! I've been trying to go through all of the blatantly biased posts there and countering the misinformation whenever I have the time, but more people need to make an effort to bring some nuance to Saidit.

The worst posts usually only come from a handful of posters, so it would be pretty easy to counter with actual good content with a bit of effort.

[–]scrubking 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Go back to reddit.

[–]Humpty 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

In summary:

  • "Reddit is too one-sided. I observe that this place is also too one-sided, but from the other side. I think it would be better if it were more balanced."
  • "Go back to reddit"

Do you not see how idiotic that response is?

[–]Dragonerne 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'll just say that it's ironic that you mention GC and then George Soros conspiracies because I saw posts on GC that linked George Soros to the translobby LOL.

With regards to the rest, I think you will find that you've been in a leftist brainwashing echochamber and if you were to engage in good faith, then you could slowly become depogrammed. Its not organic that reddit or mainstream sites are left wing, its because of censorship and actual fake news. If you are left wing, then you likely have been taught a lot about the "far right" and their methods. I want you to know that its the complete opposite, everything you think of the far right and how they manipulates and deceives gullible people is how the elite manipulates and deceives the sheep as they call them. An example of this is "far right" echo chambers. There is no such thing. The entire society is leftist and controlled by the elite. Media, Social Media, Universities, School, Work places etc. As a "far right" you live and breath leftism every single day. You cannot escape leftism as a far righter. On the other hand, a leftist can go their entire lives never ever getting exposed to far right ideas other than from second hand left wing sources telling "this is how the far right thinks". All the popular subreddits are left wing echochambers where far right ideas are banned and completely excluded. You wont see the same here because the far right is not afraid of left wing ideas. Why? Because left wing ideas are propaganda fed to the gullible people by the elite. They don't survive in a climate of free speech because there is no reality behind them.
Stick around, debate in good faith and your left wing ideas will fall one by one. Its a process that can take years and it requires that one is open minded and willing to listen and willing to change ones own mind when new evidence is presented.

I think this video is a good starting point to showcase how propaganda works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSkpPaiUF8s

[–]jet199Instigatrix 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, Soros is not liked on GC.

The difference is we don't think there's a conspiracy, just that he's an arsehole and anti-democratic. We also have a set of right wing billionaires, like Pritzker, we dislike just as much.

[–]Humpty 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

In the 30 minutes or so that I've been on this site, checking out the top links on the front page, I've seen:

  • "Zionist conspiracy", "kikebags"
  • 9/11 was a Mossad job
  • COVID-19 is a Jewish hoax
  • Blatant racism
  • Blatant misogyny
  • Blatant transphobia (as in, hatred of trans people generally, not just confined to TRAs)
  • Articles from objectively laughable sites like GatewayPundit and TheWhiteHouseInsider being posted as inarguable truth
  • Pizzagate being posted as inarguable truth

Something tells me this isn't quite the high quality content that will draw massive amounts of readers in!

[–]King_Brutus 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The one thing I will say about this site that is refreshing is that it encourages free speech AND generally adheres to the pyramid of debate. Just simply labeling something as "racsist" or "transphobic" isn't a card to play here.

[–]whereswhat 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, it's kinda like the Shawshank Redemption. You have to wade through lots of shit for freedom.

[–]Dragonerne 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's also possible that you've lived in echo chambers where any "wrongthink" is strictly banned and censored.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.00399/full

Less than 10% of experts think genes don't play a role in the difference in intelligence between populations.
Whites are more intelligent than blacks. This is both a scientific fact and scientific consensus.

Your previous echochamber bans any actual science because its "racist".

In an intellectual environment, you don't get any points for yelling "racism". If you want to feel superior to those stupid "sciencedeniers and conspiracy theorists" then I suggest you go back to reddit where you can share your deep insights into how everyone is magically biologically 100% completely the same and whatever else nonsense the leftist echochamber propagandamachine produces for the masses. If you decide to stay, then you will experience that most people here are quite nice, friendly and open to debate in good faith. Its a very different climate than the toxic atmosphere on reddit.

[–]Humpty 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's also possible that you've lived in echo chambers where any "wrongthink" is strictly banned and censored...I suggest you go back to reddit where you can share your deep insights into how everyone is magically biologically 100% completely the same and whatever else nonsense the leftist echochamber propagandamachine produces for the masses.

I suggest you stop making idiotic assumptions about what people think.

Whites are more intelligent than blacks. This is both a scientific fact and scientific consensus.

It is neither.

Your previous echochamber bans any actual science because its "racist".

Translation: "I think 'actual science' means stuff I google from provably garbage 'journals' that agrees with my preconceived opinions about black people. So when people disagree with me, that must mean they're wrong."

Fuck that ignorant, bigoted bullshit.

I hope for your sake you're still a child.

[–]Dragonerne 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're not creating a very friendly climate for debate and you're not offering any sources to your own claims. "It is neither" is not a great argument, it's just your preconceived opinion about black people; contratry to established scientific literature on the matter, which makes it both a preconceived and irrational opinion about black people.

Your opinion is a political opinion backed by a tiny fringe element of political activist experts but not accepted by the vast majority of research in this area for the past more than 100 years. On reddit you could spew these baseless claims as if it was gospel without getting any rebuttals because the mods would censor and ban anyone who dared speak up. Here you don't have this higher power of protection to help you out, so instead your comments and arguments will be challenged openly and for all to see and judge.

Also I'm an adult. Thanks for your concern.

[–]jet199Instigatrix 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is the sort of stuff you used to only encounter when you got cornered by some bore in a pub who would be constantlyon the lookout for fresh victims to reel his conspiracy theories out to. That's the problem, the liberal middle classes used to just be able to shut a door on this stuff, never mix with such people and pretend to themselves they loved all humanity so they haven't formulated a good way of dealing with it. Now the accessibility of the internet means you can't get away from those guys and the instinct of liberals is then to try to shut a non existent door when that won't work anymore.

Personally I always tried to argue with the bore in the pub but I'm not sure that's the way forward either because they seemed to enjoy that even more than being believed. Maybe a lot of these people just want attention so maybe the other response is right, we just need more non-political content so people can work their shit out through different aspects of their lives than their identity. I know with people who deradicalise Islamic terrorists they manly just get them mixing with a wider range of people because many teens simply have no clue most other people have a the same problems, feelings and loves as them and identity is just an additional factor on top of shared human experience.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, James Watson is just some bore in a pub. An alternative interpretation of your story is that those in power rely on certain political facts rather than scientific facts to remain in power. Those espousing heterodoxy are then punished by those in power and directed to saidit & the pub while the "liberal middle class sheep" believe the political facts and dismiss those "bore in a pub". But that would be crazytalk.

[–]jet199Instigatrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I didn't know James Watson railed against pizzagate on the internet.

TIL

[–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He was cancel culture'd because he had said "blatant racism" (read: science).

I don't know much about pizzagate but from what I've seen it seems pretty much confirmed? Epstein and now maxwell in custody awaiting trial.

[–]Wahwah 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Well, it is true to some extent for the reasons you mention.

However you can contribute to this open forum, be the change if you will. With the absence of downvotes it shouldn't be difficult to contribute content which are towards left in your view. Let the audience decide which they want to consume. :)

[–]TheSeventhSense[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Good point. The absence of downvotes is still something that hasn't fully hit me and I do want to help change this dynamic. I suspect that the fun rating will be replacing the down vote rating though for views people dont like.

[–]Dragonerne 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I suspect that the fun rating will be replacing the down vote rating though for views people dont like.

Maybe by toxic leftists

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I was thinking this but it is a recent thing due to reddit banning subs and many of them coming here. gender critical being one of them but they were banned for being too rw in terms of thinking trannies are not women! Though other than that view they are lw and support gay and lesbian rights. Well I think just wanting things to be 50/50 just cuz that would be nice is not going to work out. I think these things have to happen organically. People come to saidit for a reason and that main reason is getting banned, or their favorite subs getting banned, from reddit. Which one tend to get banned. Leftwingers do get banned from reddit too, in the past in 2016 people that didn't like hillary, and wanted Bernie, because they thought Hillary was too rw got banned. You can be far left on reddit but not on economics and you have to support the democratic party. There's just not many folks like that left on reddit so that kind of exodus is probably not coming to saidit. Super far leftwing economic people were on the sub chapotraphouse, that was banned, I'm not sure where they went, seems like nowhere and it just dissolved. Kind of lonely on the internet for a true liberal nowadays.

[–]TheSeventhSense[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Right I should of clarified that reddit was only good for neoliberals with progressives and people further left being pushed out of the mix. Hopefully that changes here

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

just not sure if they ever will since they are not on reddit now so cannot be banned from reddit in the future. I might be wrong. As we get closer to the election maybe more of a mass banning will happen. Sometimes BLM people seem to do things like criticize Israel or suggest they want leftwing economic reforms, so they might get banned off of reddit. They might look into how Biden touches kids in a metoo style criticism, that might get them banned too. Then they might come here.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sometimes BLM people seem to do things like criticize Israel or suggest they want leftwing economic reforms, so they might get banned off of reddit.

When they did they got deplatformed.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know what you mean, so I think they might be being careful and censoring themselves on reddit now

[–]Chipit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I got my comment deleted from Quillette for pointing out George Soros is Jewish, and is a Nazi collaborator.

People refused to believe it despite the 60 Minutes video of him confessing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZhIrYxOQsI

Propaganda is a powerful weapon. Present them with the truth, direct evidence from the horse's mouth, and they still won't change their view.

[–]Humpty 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

for pointing out George Soros is...a Nazi collaborator

Dear lord, not this nonsense again! :sigh:

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

How's it nonsense? The interview I linked contains a confession from George Soros himself that he's a Nazi collaborator. Did you watch it?

I'm curious, where does your doubt come from?

[–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I'm curious, where does your doubt come from?

Probably propaganda outlets like https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-06-22/george-soros-conspiracy-theories-surge-amid-george-floyd-protests

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That says absolutely nothing about George Soros' history as a Nazi collaborator. Likely because it's 100% true.

Don't believe me, watch George Soros himself address the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZhIrYxOQsI

Watch his reaction: is he ashamed, looking down, stammering? No, his eyes light up and he gets excited talking about his time as a Nazi collaborator. That's the deal with sociopaths, they can't recognize when they're horrifying normal people.

[–]roguecanine 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I watched it and all I saw was him admitting that he accompanied his Nazi fake adopted father on his Jewish property take away missions. He was 14. In the video he said that he didn't feel guilty because it wasn't his fault and the property would have been taken away regardless whether he'd be there or not. It's not like he's wrong for thinking that way? You could say he should have tried to play a hero, to save all those other Jews, but most people were not heroes back then and were just trying to survive themselves. The smiling was creepy, I agree, but whatever the reason for the smile, he wasn't the one who killed people back then and he was a kid trying to survive, not a collaborator (at least such is my impression from that video).

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If it were Donald Trump recalling his youthful Nazi collaboration, would you be making similar excuses for him? How about George W. Bush?

George Soros is a merchant of human misery. He caused a financial crisis and hurt millions of people, just so he could become richer than he already was.

[–]roguecanine 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If Donald Trump were a 14 year old child who merely witnessed the atrocities, of course. In my mind collaborators are people who actively help, not the victims who were forced to observe. Inaction is not a crime in a situation when you would get killed for trying to help. You could say that maybe he enjoyed the misery of other Jews or something like that, but those would be speculations, not facts. For all I know he was forced to claim false identity and did what he could to avoid being discovered.

I wouldn't debate the actions of adult / financier Soros, perhaps you are right in that regard.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He didn't witness, he participated. He called it the best time of his life. That's the thing with sociopaths, they don't realize when they're horrifying other people.

[–]JulienMayfair 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are always people on both sides who are interested in engaging in discussion, and there are always those who are not. IMO, it's generally pretty easy to tell the difference.

[–]ehkodiak 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It will skew right wing at first as those were the first who had to seek a new home, but at least right wingers let people discuss views, even if they don't agree with it. With more and more centrist stuff becoming banned or 'wrongthink' on the other site, then it should start to even out.

[–]8timesarrow8 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so you already want some kind of censorship?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I realize that reddit had the same problem but with the left wing dominating the platform, but I feel that we can do better here to get a balanced ratio between both view points.

I agree! I think maybe inviting lefty-type people who'd be interested in high-quality discussion might work. But where do they tend to hang out? How would be an appropriate way to let them know about SaidIt?

[–]konoplya 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

leftists

high quality discussion

pick one

[–]DieCommieBreederScum 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No one who uses the c-word can be trusted.

[–]NorfolkTerrier 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree. I tried to give it more of a balance by subbing to GC, but they're actually the most active community here right now, so if you do that your front page is about 80% GC posts. It would help if a few more smaller left-ish communities created subs here, or if some of the GC users participated in the other subs more.

Personally I hope more non-political content takes off, I'll try to submit a little more.

[–]Cratis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problem with reddit is that the mods and admins are purging and suppressing views they disagree with. It wasn't enough for them that the site has been dominated by leftists, and that leftist propaganda gets upvoted while disagreement gets downvoted. Saidit isn't purging anyone's views, so there's no problem. One reason to be doubtful of calls for balance, though, is that the current mainstream of leftism opposes free speech and dissent in principle. That is, once you get a sufficiently large number of leftists (of a certain vein) on the platform, they will call for and push to implement de-platforming those who disagree with them. Hopefully, though, we will get more of the other sort of leftists (old left?) who believe in free speech as a leftist value.