Black Lives Matter is the black KKK. Or worse. They've literally killed more people than the KKK in 2020.

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[–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

After calling me names, obtuse, etc. forgive me for not really caring at this point. If you want to know more, spend 5 seconds on google.

[–]zerosis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Cared enough to refuse to cite your claims again, I guess

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Currently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact
https://globalnews.ca/news/7153151/karen-law-caren-act-911-san-francisco/

Upcoming:
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/press-room/uc-board-regents-endorses-aca-5-repeal-prop-209

The first one is about blacks being given bonus points in hiring, university etc. I expect you to either dismiss it, start justifying it, say that it's not that bad or that whites deserve the discrimination.

The only reason I did this is because I could see that you're against TRAs. I'm too used to their abuse on reddit and tbh you were in the wrong for how you attacked me. You could've been less rude instead of acting like TRAs. If you continue in that way, then I'm out.

[–]zerosis 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I will read your sources thoroughly and come to my own conclusion, because I still am genuinely interested in the socio-political ramifications of affirmative action and I'm still not sure how I feel about it overall. I view it as a complicated issue, just like systemic racial discrimination against white/black people. That is literally all I wanted in that regard and the snip about how you expect me to 'react' isn't necessary.

It's really strange that you're trying to paint me as the aggressive one here when you're saying shit like 'you would be free to move back to your home country' (Americans are American regardless of their skin color or ancestry, it's not a white ethnostate) and 'there are not two sides to this,' (<- seriously? What happened to All Lives Matter? Black people have issues just like white people, this should not be some controversial statement in any circle.) also completely ignoring my point about the statues where I said it would be JUST as bad to monumentalize a person who enslaved, colonized and murdered white people. You put my good-faith arguments on full blast and decided there was no room for agreement, when we don't even disagree on everything. I didn't attack you, I was responding in kind to your own antagonization.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The reason I wrote that snip is because you previously dismissed my expectation as if I had been lying.
I personally don't see affirmative action as a complicated issue. Treating white women worse than black women just because they're white should not be codified in law. Each individual is unique and ought to be treated equally.

I'm liberal at heart but if society deems it acceptable to discriminate against white women and white men, then my liberalism goes out the window. If racism is part of the game, then I prefer that it benefits white men and women rather than discriminate against them.

It's really strange that you're trying to paint me as the aggressive one here when you're saying shit like 'you would be free to move back to your home country' (if you're advocating for ethno-states then there's only so many ways I can beat around the bush without just asking 'why be racist though')

No, I disagree. I also didn't advocate for an ethnostate, I replied to your comment about normaltivity. If a chinese man doesn't like the sexual preferences of white women, then he can return to his own country. It's not the job of white women to change for him and no one should feel forced to have certain sexual preferences.

and 'there are not two sides to this,' (<- seriously? What happened to All Lives Matter? Black people have issues just like white people, this should not be some controversial statement in any circle.)

Yes, seriously. All Lives Matter is still true, but there are laws, rules and policies that directly discriminate against whites. This needs to be fixed and there are not two sides to this because there are no laws, rules or policies that directly discriminate against blacks. Blacks are systemically and institutionally privileged by society.

I didn't attack you, I was responding in kind to your own antagonization.

You did attack me. I might've been direct but nowhere did I call you obtuse or anything like that.

[–]zerosis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I only dismissed your original refusal to post sources because you initially refused to post sources. It's that simple.

You completely missed the point about why asking an American to 'move back to their home country' is ridiculous. America isn't white, it's a melting pot. There are plenty of asian, black and white people here to go around, for whatever tastes you might have. You keep shifting the argument away from the original point of contention, which is that black people have frustrations with the ramifications of being regularly looked down on in their own country. White people might have their own frustrations, but that doesn't mean black American's concerns aren't important. I don't understand why this simple concept is so hard to accept.

Claiming that blacks are systemically and institutionally priveleged in America is ridiculous. Hyper-woke twitter doesn't speak for the rest of the country, there is still PLENTY of racism to go around for every color under the sun. You're being extremist about this and you really don't need to be. It's okay to acknowledge the struggles of both black and white people in America, despite what the far left might tell you about whites and the far right might tell you about blacks.

And again you won't address the fact that I stated why our viewpoints on the statue situation aren't even incompatible. If there was a statue erected in honor of someone who colonized, enslaved and killed white people on a grand scale, would you want it on display in a public park? Or would you find it in bad taste and offensive to your people? Or is your overly snarky 'Yes of course you don't blame them. I'm not surprised.' supposed to tell me what you actually think about this?

You repeatedly called me, a complete and total stranger, an abuser and gaslighter (meaningless buzzword at this point) over a simple disagreement in opinion, so don't act like calling you obtuse was just some out-of-nowhere low brow hit. You engaged with me on aggressive terms and keep trying to play the victim card. Come on, man, that just doesn't make sense.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I only dismissed your original refusal to post sources because you initially refused to post sources. It's that simple.

Yes, I realized that after reading your post history and realizing that you were against TRAs that never post sources. I didn't post a source because I got a TRA vibe from you (sorry) and they constantly ask for sources while also completely disregarding any sources.

which is that black people have frustrations with the ramifications of being regularly looked down on in their own country

If we lived in a liberal country where individuals were treated equally by the law, then I would be open to acknowledging this but as it is currently where we live in a country where laws, policies and rules actively discriminate directly against whites, then I am not ready to consider this an issue. When racism is part of the game, then racism should favor whites and in that case they can leave if they don't like it here. It's not a complicated issue. Either we treat people colorblind or I promote my own kind. I will never agree to a policy that discriminates against white women just because they're white.

Claiming that blacks are systemically and institutionally priveleged in America is ridiculous.

I disagree and you haven't made any arguments to suggest that this is not the case, while I've presented several examples of laws that are discriminatory specifically against whites.

[–]zerosis 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Okay, I feel like you made your point clear. I disagree completely that it's 'not a complicated issue,' I think it's incredibly complicated and you're not allowing yourself to see the nuances of racial relations in America because it's less painful to take a hard-line stance in a racially-divided America right now than it is to see it without any lens of bias.

To be honest I'm not very interested in trying to convince you that black people have problems in America. It seems like you've already made up your mind on that front. The only reason I asked for sources for your claims on affirmative action is that I am open to the idea of white people being discriminated against. It's something I was genuinely interested in and am researching and soul-searching myself, which is why I didn't ask you for sources on anything else. I'd already made up my mind on the other things. I'm not open, however, to the idea of white people being the ONLY race currently systemically discriminated against. That's just dogmatic and it doesn't interest me.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, we will probably not agree on wether its a complicated issue or not, because I see it as a simple issue, which might be - or is - because of my pro-white bias.

The only reason I asked for sources for your claims on affirmative action is that I am open to the idea of white people being discriminated against

I think there is not much to be convinced about. A poor white girl is not given any bonus points on her test scores, while a rich black girl is. This is text book racism.

I'm not open, however, to the idea of white people being the ONLY race currently systemically discriminated against. That's just dogmatic and it doesn't interest me.

You're right. But antiwhite racism is so prevalent that once you see it, it's everywhere and literally impossible to unsee. Basically, I was taught to treat everyone equally and colorblind but I had an internalized learned antiwhite bias that I didn't know about. It's what my friend called "bigotry of low expectations". It kind of shook me because I realized that I didn't have the same expectations of whites and non-whites. I tolerated if something benefitted non-whites at the cost of whites, while I would've considered the opposite to be racist.
Since then I've forced myself to ask "Does this benefit whites?" and if it hurts whites, then it's racist.

Our entire society is filled with "bigotry of low expectations" and it creates a lot of double standards and it hurts whites on a massive scale, while benefitting non-whites. And most are blind to it because of their internalized bias. Oh, now I'm just rambling.

Please read the links or parts of them. Try to be objective with regards to discrimination, because they're very good at justifying why the discrimination against whites is acceptable but it would never be accepted if it were reversed. Its socially acceptable for blacks to be victims but its not acceptable for whites to be victims.

[–]zerosis 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Hey, I know it's been a while since this thread happened but I was going through my old comments and I wanted to let you know I'm sorry for going so hard on you over this. I was being an ass, and you made a lot of good points. I've changed my mind about the BLM movement and no longer support it. Apologies again for being a dick.