Scientists propose adding psychoactive drug to our water supplies

submitted by [deleted] from (futurism.com)

all 25 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]mongre 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fluoride is already being pumped in drinking water to pacify you. Why not lithium? It does work. In fact there's a town in Oregon where you can drink lithium loaded water out of the fountain. A glass of that and you're surprisingly calm and collected.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Firstly, the amounts are trace elements. Secondly, it's a correlation, and there's going to be a lot more research on this to demonstrate any causal effect. Thirdly, if you're going to call this "psychoactive" so is literally everything else. Food affects the mind. Water affects the mind. It's just poisoning the well.

If it had a beneficial effect I fail to see what the problem is. This is little different from adding iodine into salt to drastically reduce physical and mental impairment in the population, though the effect would be considerably less given how tiny the amounts would be.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

Forced medication good. Big brother knows best.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Nope. It has been a long running theme that stripping micronutrients and metals away from drinking water may, in fact, have been a bad thing. Overly filtered and sterile water is turning out to be a problem in a similar way, perhaps, or so the thinking goes. This would be nothing more than simply re-adding metals that ordinarily would already exist, and do exist, in other populations.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Yes, a long theme running from the propaganda stream into your fluoride addled mind. Good luck with water++, moron.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I direct you to this page: https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/37r/welcome_to_saiditnet/

Specifically: "The following diagram is the core of how this website is administrated. People who are consistently dragging discussion down to lower levels of the pyramid are not welcome here". Your inability to defend your ideas is not welcome here.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Your inability to defend your ideas is not welcome here

You lack any coherent argument for defending the drugging of the water supply.

If it had a beneficial effect I fail to see what the problem is.

You said yourself you don't even know what good it would do.

Lithium toxicity is closely related to serum lithium levels, and can occur at doses close to therapeutic levels.

Let's look at some of the side effects: * Confusion, poor memory, or lack of awareness * fainting * fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat or pulse * frequent urination * increased thirst * slow heartbeat * stiffness of the arms or legs * troubled breathing (especially during hard work or exercise) * unusual tiredness or weakness * weight gain

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You lack any coherent argument for defending the drugging of the water supply.

"It has been a long running theme that stripping micronutrients and metals away from drinking water may, in fact, have been a bad thing."

You said yourself you don't even know what good it would do.

False. Based on this research it might reduce suicides. I only pointed out it's a correlation that needs more studying, but is in line with other research suggesting we have made our drinking water too sterile.

Let's look at some of the side effects: * Confusion, poor memory, or lack of awareness * fainting * fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat or pulse * frequent urination * increased thirst * slow heartbeat * stiffness of the arms or legs * troubled breathing (especially during hard work or exercise) * unusual tiredness or weakness * weight gain

In clinical dosages, not naturally occurring trace elements. Next you'll say stop breathing oxygen bad.

Want to try again? Because lying about what I said, by apparently not reading what I said, isn't working for you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"It has been a long running theme that stripping micronutrients and metals away from drinking water may, in fact, have been a bad thing."

That's not an argument. There's been many long running themes from the propaganda outlets. "Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth". You're so conditioned, you've become an agent of the government. Start questioning things.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Argument: "a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong."

That you don't understand my argument doesn't make it not one. Diverting from the argument with aspersions and conspiratorial thinking is not addressing it, either. Point is, lithium may be among the necessary metals and things we ought to add back into water. See also, the article we're discussing.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Your sole argument is the mass media has been pushing this message for a few years. You're simply parroting the propaganda like a paid puppet. See also, getting a mind of your own.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Not all salt is iodized. But iodine helps keep goiters and hypothyroidism at bay. Lithium diminishes iodine levels. What other contradictions can it have, even in trace amounts, when introduced to certain meds?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I don't think you understand what "trace amount" means. Given minimal mineral levels in a lot of drinking water, uh, none? Iodine did exceptionally more than just keep goiters and thyroid disorders at bay. It is singularly responsible for the one standard deviation increase in IQ recognized as the flynn effect. Chronically low iodine levels in diet were so pervasive throughout much of the country it was an epidemic, and plenty of people without overt thyroid conditions nonetheless exhibited mental retardation. Micronutrient supplementation in various sources is responsible largely for this.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I'm thrilled to have iodine, no argument there. However:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn2013127

It should be pushed in vitamin form or within fortified foods before pushed into the water supply. I'm also very pro-if someone wants to self-own, therapy should be offered along with treatment if necessary.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

...Yes. You don't just blindly apply these things. Curiously excess iodine intake in Japan, for example in seaweed, is actively counteracted by other elements of diet that inhibit uptake of iodine. Cultural traditional foods have a tendency of, over long periods of time, adapting to be able to consume foods toxic or poison. But that's besides the point - the iodine in the water discussed are in levels far in excess of safety. Nobody is talking about that kind of thing for lithium, nor is it deliberate supplementation.

[–]Comatoast 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

From the article:

Studies have also associated trace amounts of Lithium in groundwater on the one hand and lower rates of violence and Alzheimer’s disease on the other (Schrauzer and Shrestha, 1990; Young, 2011, Mauer et al., 2014). However, the present article focuses primarily on Lithium’s potential suicide-prevention effects.

Ok, anything that has an effect on the human body that is added to their food or water intake can be considered supplementation. Evidently trace amounts lower the rate of violence. Does it not concern you as to why that's occuring?

https://www.igsli.org/general-information-on-lithium/adverse-effects-of-lithium-salts.html

Lithium can reduce testosterone levels, especially in older men. An increase in luteinizing hormone (LH) may indicate that Leydig cell function is impaired. Prolactin levels remain unchanged during lithium treatment. As of yet, the influence of lithium on female sex hormones has not been sufficiently studied.

There's your violence reduction. Your leydig cells are fucked by nature of exposure to all the shitty plastic softening agents that seep into everything consumed. Why can't we just have clean water instead and focus on pushing mental health care advocacy?

**edited to get to my point

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You're comparing trace amounts in groundwater to treatment amounts by clinicians. Apples to oranges. Next you'll start saying Oxygen is dangerous and we should all stop breathing. Do you get how ridiculous your concerns are yet, or do I need to keep belaboring the point?

I can't even begin to imagine the absurdities you must bend over backward to believe when you ignore the neurological effects of lithium in favor of an hilariously fragile terror of your poor testosterone being reduced. Don't be obese, get regular exercise, and don't take large clinical quantities of lithium. No, the testosterone reduction in older men from lithium is not responsible for the violence reduction.

[–]Comatoast 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Keep telling yourself whatever you would like. Whatever helps you sleep at night, afterall.

I don't trust anyone putting anything unnecessary into the water supply. I'll agree to disagree with you but you're not going to change my mind.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So rather than actually endeavor to think about what I'm saying, and examine why what you are replying with doesn't constitute an argument (a good one anyway), you'd rather retreat and dismiss criticism to preserve your faith. Might I remind you, the purpose of saidit is for discussion. Digging in your heels does not belong here.

[–]Comatoast 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I've brought medical data to the table to explain my argument, and you've deliberately ignored it. I'm not interested in continuing an argument on the validity of adding that particular substance to the water supply, not with someone who seemingly just wants to dismiss everything. Tip your fedora harder and I guess I'll laugh at the UK from here, where we have plenty of other shit added to our food equally as toxic.

[–]Comatoast 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://academic.oup.com/phe/article/12/3/274/5316433

Those prescribed lithium are expected to take blood tests.

https://gpnotebook.com/simplepage.cfm?ID=1838809159

How much is it going to fuck over their routine having even trace amounts in the water supply? Wouldn't that also mean that it would help only in the instance of lithium deficiency? It's not the only treatment for bi-polar disorder for a reason. I understand iodine, but l don't expect to be bought on lithium for a myriad of reasons.

[–]Comatoast 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have one more final addition here. This is a link to a pdf, so be forewarned.

https://www.gwern.net/docs/lithium/2017-ishii.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwijzMO154zrAhVrkeAKHZaTC24QFjALegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw2E4lk3nRjQaC9OwV1UeUgW

Therefore, at least in regards to suicide, relatively higher lithium levels (though much lower levels than therapeutic ones) may be associated with lower suicide rates. With regard to gender diferences, Table 1 shows that four stud- ies found a signifcantly inverse association with lithium levels in drinking water only in males (male response to trace lithium) whereas three studies found an association only in females (female response to trace lithium). There- fore, the gender diference efect is yet to be determined. Nonetheless, Kanehisa et al. (2017) investigated the lithium levels of 199 lithium therapy-naïve patients includ- ing 31 patients with suicide attempts, 21 patients with self- harm, and 147 control patients. There was a signifcant diference (p = 0.043) between the three groups, whereby patients with suicide attempts had signifcantly lower lith- ium levels than control patients (p = 0.012) in males but not females. This is consistent with male responses to trace lithium. Sher (2015) suggested one possibility that higher levels of lithium in drinking water decreases suicide rates among men by reducing impulsivity and aggression, and another possibility that lithium reduces suicidality in men by decreasing testosterone levels. Therefore, in our opin- ion, trace lithium may be efective for suicide prevention particularly in males as opposed to females. This should be investigated in randomized, placebo-controlled trials in the future.