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[–]wizzwizz4 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

And I thought you'd changed. 

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You're condescension is premature.

Roll with the punches. Don't change your ethical stance just because Hitler agrees with you.

Having refuted your appeal in support of eugenics; I'm sitting on the pinnacle of the pyramid...

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Except you haven't refuted it. Please explain how you've refuted it, because I'm clearly too stupid to see.

Why is abortion different enough to the things in the paragraph above that eugenicists wanting it means that you want it not?

Please answer this question. What makes abortion different to the things that you agree with the eugenicists about?

Oh, and having made an ad hominem attack in lieu of an argument, you're not on the pinnacle of the pyramid.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What makes abortion different to the things that you agree with the eugenicists about?

This is a nonsense question. I'll ask you a similar question to demonstrate.

Wizz, what makes the holocaust different to the things that you agree with the Nazis about?

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It hurt people.

Your turn.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So, you agree with the overwhelming majority of the Nazi philosophy?
That's unfortunate, but not altogether surprising given your admittedly fickle nature.

That's probably why you support eugenics, as well.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, you agree with the overwhelming majority of the Nazi philosophy?

Well, it depends on what you mean by "the Nazi philosophy". If you mean "the complete set of philosophies held by the Nazi Party" then obviously I agree with lots of it. (That definition of "the Nazi philosophy" includes most of the groundwork philosophy and moral systems of Western Europe.) But if you mean "the set of philosophies held by the Nazi Party but not their contemporary political opponents" then no; most of the Nazi-specific philosophy is abhorrent according to my values.

Also, in case you were wondering, I do not support eugenics. The basic idea is sound, but the facts that individual humans are involved and that somebody else is going to be dictating what's considered desirable outweigh any benefit that might come of it. (And no, even if I were that "somebody else" I'd still consider it problematic. I've got some vague ideas for how it could work, but they're currently too flawed to voice (as in, even I can see obvious ways that an implementation would doom society), and even at this stage they barely resemble the traditional ideas of eugenics.)

You said that you supported abortion, until you learnt that the eugenics crowd supported it. Then you stopped supporting it as much. I'm simply asking why this affected your beliefs about abortion, when it hasn't affected your beliefs about the benefits of eating or not killing (adult) people.

Take the Nazi example. "Killing people is bad" is one of the morals I learnt in early childhood. For some reason (I haven't taken the time to re-evaluate all of my fundamental beliefs just yet because I'm not really making any important decisions just now and I'm kind of busy), I think that killing people who would otherwise do really bad stuff (simplified: bad people) is worse than killing people who wouldn't (simplified: innocent people). (I still think that killing "bad people" is bad, though.) Because the Holocaust resulted in the deaths of many, many innocent people, I think that the Holocaust was bad.

I'm fairly confident that I would come to the conclusion that genocide was bad even if I had never learnt of the Nazi Party or the events surrounding either World War.


So, the question remains. Why does the opinion of eugenicists change your beliefs on abortion?