"Only in America can you be Pro-Death Penalty, Pro-War, Pro-Unmanned Drone Bombs, Pro-Nuclear Weapons, Pro-Guns, Pro-Torture, Pro-Land Mines, and still call yourself Pro-Life" John Fugelsang

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[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

There's no doubt that the reason for legalizing abortion were unconscionable.

Roll with the punches. Don't change your ethical stance just because Hitler agrees with you. If you've got a consistent moral framework with only a handful of axioms (e.g. preference utilitarianism, WWJD) then you can often turn situations like this to the advantage of everyone, because you're consistent and they're not, so they're more likely to run in a straight line by zig-zagging.

Yield when things are going your way, and resist when they're not. But please do try to help others. (Despite our disagreements, I do trust Tom to do this most of the time. You, the reader, on the other hand…)

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Roll with the punches. Don't change your ethical stance just because Hitler agrees with you.

My moral compass is true as ever. Being convinced of taking the right stance; means that one has been convinced.

New info was brought to my attention, which caused me to reconsider my position on this sensitive issue.

I was an ardent pro-choice supporter. At the time, I was horrified to realize that I had been working for the enemy's interests.

I completely understand why people choose to support pro-choice laws. The overwhelming majority of people who support pro-choice are morally and ethically virtuous individuals. This is a fact.

However, I'm close to certain that more than 75% of the current pro-choice supporters would quickly become pro-life supporters; if they understood the actual history behind the pro-choice (eugenics) movement, and it's on-going intent.

It's important to understand the history behind the (eugenics) groups who initiated and financed the pro-choice movement. It was never about a women's right to choose.
To these groups; abortion (pro-choice) has always been about the legal method for population reduction in specific demographics.

This is the reason that the eugenics movement continues to suppress it's history. People are not allowed to know the facts. Moral people oppose ethnic cleansing, and murderous injustice.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

At the time, I was horrified to realize that I had been working for the enemy's interests.

You're not going to achieve your goals in life if this is how you see things. Why should it matter if your enemy wants something that you also want? If your enemy wants all the same things as you, then you should help them; if they only want some things you want, then let them get the things you want and fight them tooth and claw to prevent them from getting the things you don't.

Planned Parenthood is a questionable organisation. But just because they support abortion doesn't mean you shouldn't.

Edit: I'm doing this again, aren't I. Never mind. Could you explain why you think that Planned Parenthood being part of the eugenics movement means that permitting abortion is wrong / less good?

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

You're not going to achieve your goals in life if this is how you see things. Why should it matter if your enemy wants something that you also want?

Unlike yourself, I don't want what the eugenicists want.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Eugenicists want to be happy and healthy, and want those they care about to be happy and healthy. They want the world – or at least the parts of the world in which they live – to be a place they can live and prosper, for as long as they live. You also want these things.

You disagree with eugenics. I also disagree with eugenics; probably for different reasons. But you've got common ground with the vast majority of eugenicists. Why is abortion different enough to the things in the paragraph above that eugenicists wanting it means that you want it not?

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Eugenicists want to be happy and healthy, and want those they care about to be happy and healthy.

So, you're an Eugenics apologist?

The Nazi eugenics crimes were the most egregious.
Medical experimentation on humans.
Ethnic cleansing.

Unlike yourself, I don't want what the eugenicists want.

[–]wizzwizz4 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

And I thought you'd changed. 

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You're condescension is premature.

Roll with the punches. Don't change your ethical stance just because Hitler agrees with you.

Having refuted your appeal in support of eugenics; I'm sitting on the pinnacle of the pyramid...

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Except you haven't refuted it. Please explain how you've refuted it, because I'm clearly too stupid to see.

Why is abortion different enough to the things in the paragraph above that eugenicists wanting it means that you want it not?

Please answer this question. What makes abortion different to the things that you agree with the eugenicists about?

Oh, and having made an ad hominem attack in lieu of an argument, you're not on the pinnacle of the pyramid.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What makes abortion different to the things that you agree with the eugenicists about?

This is a nonsense question. I'll ask you a similar question to demonstrate.

Wizz, what makes the holocaust different to the things that you agree with the Nazis about?