“Historically, the most terrible things - war, genocide, and slavery - have resulted not from disobedience, but from obedience.” - Howard Zinn

submitted by magnora7 from (i.redd.it)

all 17 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]Chipit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

To be more correct, it resulted from government.

The less of it we have, the better. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.

[–]poop13 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

So you'll be denying the stimulus check right?

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The biggest killer of people in the 20th century was government.

[–]AbeFroman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So you're accepting the check. Got it.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, no. I'll be returning it to the treasury at once.

[–]sproketboy 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Historically, the most terrible things - war, genocide, and slavery - have resulted not from disobedience, but from Socialism. FTFA

[–]magnora7[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

From authoritarian governments, is more apt. I don't care what ideology they are, it's the controlling authoritarian ones that do the most damage. Communism is just one of many routes to this authoritarianism. But there is such a thing as grassroots socialism. Not all socialism is authoritarian... Nor is all capitalism authoritarian... just the versions where power takes control and acts in an authoritarian manner

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, yeah for the corportocracy!

[–]useless_aether 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

this guy is a bloody socialist! argh! <foams at mouth>

like, duh. how can any of these things come from disobedience?? he is not a brilliant man!!

and this is his insight after the nuremberg trials, where all the accused shifted the blame up on the chain of command?! pitiful!

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

he's anti-authoritarianism

[–]useless_aether 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

can there be socialism without a state?

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, it's called grassroots socialism. Aka not top-down enforced, but arising from libertarian freedom and natural cooperation and values of the everyday people.

Any system people have to be forced in to is already authoritarianism, imo. I do not care for any form of authoritarianism.

[–]useless_aether 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

i am not sure i like the 'socialism' in the name, but if all social interactions are voluntary, so be it.

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I am glad we agree, the voluntary aspect is key. I think there are lots of names for it, we could label it anarchism, libertarian socialism, anti-authoritarianism, or cooperative volunteerism and it's all the same really. It's frustrating when terminology gets in the way of communication. Seems to happen a lot in politics.

As far as I see it, the whole capitalism vs socialism discussion is largely a red herring, and the real divide is authoritarians vs anti-authoritarians, but the media works to divide and conquer us along other lines (like race, political parties, religion, etc) so we are too split to cooperate among the real divide. So the anti-authoritarians can never cooperate in any meaningful way because they're too busy in-fighting amongst each other. That's how I see it anyway.

[–]useless_aether 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yes, that's how they rule. btw, i think agorism is another term.

i just had a relevant discussion with horrux. he had interesting points re 'socialism', but not quite in the voluntary form (at least as i understand it).

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]magnora7[S,A] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    You've been banned for repeatedly dragging discussion down the pyramid of debate. https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/j1/the_saiditnet_terms_and_content_policy/