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[–]magnora7[A] 95 insightful - 8 fun95 insightful - 7 fun96 insightful - 8 fun -  (5 children)

Yup, I was there when voat was called whoaverse, I watched it all happen and you're absolutely right!

This is why user participation is important. This is why the pyramid of debate is important. This is why everyone who truly cares about saidit needs to voice their opinions and vote when they see something insightful or fun.

We have lots of defenses against what happened to voat, but primary among them is community.

The second thing we have going for us is no downvote. So the dedicated minority group cannot re-shape the site at large to their own desires nearly as easily. It got much worse as well after voat added restrictions where if you've been downvoted you cannot downvote others. It sped up the echo-chamber feedback-loop effect and let these extremists take over the mainstream culture of voat much more quickly. Now a dissenting voice of reason stands out like a sore thumb, and is downvoted to hell.

Saidit doesn't have these locking-out features because we don't have downvotes, and we're careful to avoid "improvements" to the algorithm that actually just speed up the feedback loop that creates an echo-chamber culture. Furthermore one group cannot brigade another, because there is no downvote, and also they must abide by the pyramid of debate or be banned from saidit. So the only remaining way to "brigade" is to argue one's point rationally.

Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, the admins actually care. This site used to be called antiextremes.com, specifically referencing avoiding the extremes of reddit (censorship) and voat (far-right). It's literally our declared mission to avoid becoming voat, even right in our original name.

The reason reddit went bad is because the admins turned a blind eye (or perhaps were paid to) while brigading and astroturfing groups took it over, subreddit by subreddit.

Voat however failed because the admins just let whoever take it over, as you pointed out. They had no ideological backbone, no pyramid of debate, no nothing. Just an empty space for anyone who has enough free time to go absolutely nuts and create their own echo chamber. And that's exactly what happened.

But at saidit, we will actually will learn from their failures and try our best to avoid them.

Fourthly, saidit has open modlogs available in any sub under the list of mods, it says "moderation log". Anyone can click it and see everything every mod has ever done. Voat and reddit hide this information for mods only. This transparency adds a LOT of accountability. No more secret user deletions and secret mod coups.

Fifthly, we're run by donations. Not advertiser revenue or big secret investors. This means we have zero incentive to get rid of certain messages to please our advertisers and investors, because we have none other than community donations. We do not plan to ever change this funding model because saidit is run for the community, not for profit.

So you can see our approach is multifaceted, and we think we have a very good chance at avoiding the fate that befell voat. It won't be easy, but I believe we can do it.

[–]Amplitude 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

The reason reddit went bad is because the admins turned a blind eye (or perhaps were paid to) while brigading and astroturfing groups took it over, subreddit by subreddit.

Reddit Admins were absolutely paid to control the narrative, or allow other agents access to the narrative.
/Politics and even /worldpolitics changed in 2015-2016.

I've been on reddit for over a decade, the way the "tone" of major subreddits changed to coincide with US Election Lobbying by the DNC is clear.
They banned / silenced people until major subreddits turned into uniform echo chambers, and then they maintained a narrative of RESIST! ORANGE MAN BAD! for the next two years.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree, I noticed the same patterns you mention. Reddit is so far gone, it's really terrible once you see the full scope of it.

[–]Amplitude 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What I'm wondering -- what's left to buy? The DNC is gearing up for a fight, but people who might be interested are already on the hate train.
What I'm saying is, the Progressives have saturated their available market. People into "woke" culture are already rabid supporters, and those who haven't succumbed are either critics, conservatives, communists, or just don't pay attention.

So what will they do next?

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think just to keep driving that wedge in deeper. Divide and conquer keeps people fighting each other instead of fighting the establishment ruling over them.

It's why subreddits like /r/enligtenedcentrism exist, where they basically make fun of anyone who is not a liberal extremist. And they've poisoned the phrase "both sides" by associating it with reactionary idiocy.

The goal now is to get rid of all the moderates, so only extremists exist anymore. Then it's much easier to run the re-election numbers because you're much more certain of how everyone is going to vote.

Basically, they want control. And the good way to get it is by controlling the minds of others, and the best way to do that is to destroy any moderates and any moderate conversations. Thus from the naive standpoint, the options seem to become "literally nazis, or the sane people". And of course then the latter is the obvious choice. They want everyone thinking like this.

And everyone who refuses to think like this, will now become "the bad guys who are shunned by society". And things just keep polarizing.

[–]SaidOverRed 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I totally agree about the election meddling of Reddit.

As far as voat, I'm an outsider to it. But here is what I see on the front page:

A cow having fun with his friend.

Google translate turns far-left extremists into far-right extremists (media.8kun.top)

BREAKING: US Withdraws From World Health Organization and Democrats Are Losing It (thegatewaypundit.com)

Daily Reminder: Always Capitalize the W in White (whatever)

Just a bump in the road (files.catbox.moe)

I picked a random residential street in Johannesburg, South Africa to street-view in Google Earth. HOLY SHIT!!! Walled-off houses, razor wire, spiked fences, security systems, surveillance cameras... (pic8.co)

Group genomics drive aggression in honey bees- Genes are very important in every organism - EXCEPT HUMANS GOY!!! (phys.org)

Russian Cop Pops a Tranny (files.catbox.moe)

Modern art is just tax evasion for the rich (i.pinimg.com)

Senior researcher at Michigan State University fired for sharing a study proving no widespread racial bias in police shootings (infowars.com)

Should I go to college, community college or a trade school? (AskVoat)

I count 2 separatist/semetic (sic) things out of 11. Maybe that's too high for some, but maybe I just have a strong stomach. Or maybe just I'm used to reddit which has a far higher "this is trash" hit rate than that. Sure, it might not be saying ze jewz are the problem (they hate white/conservatives/dissenters instead), but if we are comparing the two, this anecdote is evidence that reddit is far worse of a cesspit.