Ideological And Cultural Subversion - Four Phases

hennaojisan · 2019-08-20T03:46:29+00:00

I posted a much longer version of this about a week ago. This is short and to the point: only six minutes.

hennaojisan · 2019-08-11T06:27:36+00:00

If anyone is interested in watching all of this interview, it is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4

hennaojisan · 2019-08-08T09:17:00+00:00

It's hard to know who is not a shill nowadays. I had never even seen PewDiePie until just when he was looking like a U-Boat captain. With the influence he has, it is almost certain that he has been approached by some sort of intel. Judging from that latest Corbett Report, we all may be under scrutiny, now or eventually since they seem to be tightening the screws even more. Take care.

hennaojisan · 2019-08-06T05:34:51+00:00

Two Alex Jones casts on the front page.

hennaojisan · 2019-08-06T05:19:50+00:00

Strong language warning. TimCast, PewDiePie, and others are moving to hooktube.

hennaojisan · 2019-08-06T05:06:49+00:00

I'd like this guy to get a new hairstyle and a new t-shirt but sometimes he makes good points. Note that he says violence in the US is at a half-century low. I toad you so, I toad you. (Rickey on Trailer Park Boys)

hennaojisan · 2019-08-05T15:50:02+00:00

Yes, good point but my choice of words was based on the confirmation by a former Google insider that the company does indeed have active plans to interfere with the election, just as Russia was falsely accused of doing in the last election. You and I know that the plan has long been in effect but this news will give normies something to think about if the word gets out to them. My headline might have been better: Former Google Insider Confirms Plan to Interfere With Election

pointyball · 2019-08-05T14:49:49+00:00

"Try"? They are currently actively influencing the entire election.

JasonCarswell · 2019-07-17T15:12:08+00:00

Classic.

Tom_Bombadil · 2019-07-17T14:47:20+00:00

Corbett starts out comparing The Atlantic article to my favorite comedian's jokes.

JasonCarswell · 2019-07-16T14:28:47+00:00

Show notes, links, comments, media, and platforms: https://www.corbettreport.com/the-worst-part-of-the-epstein-case-propagandawatch/

JasonCarswell · 2019-07-11T23:21:45+00:00

See also:

The Dumbest Propaganda Video Ever - #PropagandaWatch ~ Corbett Report (15:27)
/s/propaganda/comments/tif/the_dumbest_propaganda_video_ever_propagandawatch/

The Dumbest Propaganda Video Ever - #PropagandaWatch ~ Corbett Report (15:27)
/s/CopyrightActivism/comments/tii/the_dumbest_propaganda_video_ever_propagandawatch/

How Intellectual Property Hampers Capitalism | Stephan Kinsella ~ misesmedia, 2010-10-11 (25:33)
/s/CopyrightActivism/comments/tiq/how_intellectual_property_hampers_capitalism/

"Why Intellectual Property is not Genuine Property," Adam Smith Forum, Moscow ~ Stephan Kinsella 2011-11-01 (47:24)
/s/CopyrightActivism/comments/tiy/why_intellectual_property_is_not_genuine_property/

KOL161 | Argumentation Ethics, Estoppel, and Libertarian Rights: Adam Smith Forum, Moscow (2014) ~ Stephan Kinsella, 2014-11-07 (40:13)
/s/Libertarianism/comments/tj9/kol161_argumentation_ethics_estoppel_and/

JasonCarswell · 2019-07-11T19:30:17+00:00

Show notes, links, comments, media and platforms: https://www.corbettreport.com/the-dumbest-propaganda-video-ever-propagandawatch/

Tom_Bombadil · 2019-07-11T11:49:05+00:00

This is an accidental repost. The_in-betweener posted it first.

For the record, there were 0 problems before propaganda existed. ;-p

offendedsexregister · 2019-07-01T13:21:04+00:00

Oh, so media doesn't get made without applying risk to non-paying parties.

Then explain to me how your laws about child porn make any sense?

Tom_Bombadil · 2019-07-01T04:51:18+00:00

Nothing captures the essence of creativity like patent laws....

Yeah... Those ol' patent law really know how to capture, bind, and strangle the essence of human creativity.

JasonCarswell · 2019-06-25T12:36:32+00:00

Show notes, links, comments, media, platforms: https://www.corbettreport.com/cant-fight-the-future-suckers-propagandawatch/

fred_red_beans · 2019-06-15T16:43:54+00:00

The USS Abraham Lincoln was dispatched toward the Strait of Hormuz shortly after Iran Threatened To Close Strait Of Hormuz If US Blocked Its Oil Exports

JasonCarswell · 2019-05-29T08:21:10+00:00

Show notes, links, comments, other media, other platforms: https://www.corbettreport.com/first-they-came-for-your-fingerprints-propagandawatch/

" We chuckle at the old-timey FBI propaganda soliciting the public to turn in their fingerprints so that Hoover and his henchman could establish a file on every citizen. But is it so different today, with the exhortations to turn in our DNA? Find out the truth behind the propaganda as James Corbett tackles the nightmare of government identification databases. "

The_Lear_Bluce_Ree · 2019-05-12T17:51:47+00:00

I thought this was obvious since it was clearly pointed out in the hit film "License to Kill" I guess everyone needs stuff spelled out for them these days.

Robin · 2019-05-12T15:49:53+00:00

See https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Snoopers_Charter for a plaintext version

sawboss · 2019-05-02T13:23:05+00:00

We're getting there further down.

sawboss · 2019-05-02T13:22:20+00:00

If I do will you freely give your children to be eaten by my family?

Divine_Lotus · 2019-05-02T04:18:01+00:00

So you believe that's the only way to survive for yourself and your family?

Divine_Lotus · 2019-05-02T04:16:36+00:00

How does that relate to racism and evolution?

sawboss · 2019-05-01T18:11:38+00:00

Yeah, I'm not gonna starve.

Divine_Lotus · 2019-05-01T18:01:28+00:00

I have no clear answer to that as there are many factors and implications, so maybe reading things up about this may help. Articles search: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=racism+and+evolution+site%3A.edu&t=h_&ia=web

sawboss · 2019-05-01T12:49:27+00:00

So you won't mind if I cook your children to feed my own family?

Divine_Lotus · 2019-05-01T11:54:35+00:00

There are evolutionary reasons for promoting the interests of your own nearest relatives over others.

How does racism and evolution match up?

I've grown up with those not 'of my own blood' and despite racist remarks/tendaancies from family members I feel that we're one and the same in terms of being in this life. Especially when life gets rough, when you're generally alone, and your family/'kind' doesn't support you for reasons that may have something to do with ego/fear.

Reminds me of a quote:

"Family isn't whose blood you carry. It's who you love and who loves you." - Bob Ho in The Spy Next Door

Sources with picture evidence:

Twitter https://twitter.com/EyeOfJackieChan/status/211601737985957888

Facebook http://fb.me/1R0RZ0rh1

Divine_Lotus · 2019-05-01T11:31:56+00:00

Do you think that would happen here?

hennaojisan · 2019-04-27T02:03:05+00:00

I just want to get some of that medicinal cocaine. That's all I need.

useless_aether · 2019-04-19T18:21:21+00:00

good point, gonna delete it

Arundel · 2019-04-19T17:27:34+00:00

This is a very low-quality post. Link to an imgur page with a screenshot from the telly? We don't even know what was said.

Rakehell · 2019-04-19T15:10:40+00:00

The link doesn't say "evidence against the president is damning"

Rakehell · 2019-04-19T15:09:57+00:00

What I've been saying all along is that the Russia-collusion conspiracy theory is silly, and a stupid way to try for impeachment.

It'd be much more productive to go after him based on obstruction or emoluments.

magnora7 · 2019-04-18T23:32:16+00:00

I think just to keep driving that wedge in deeper. Divide and conquer keeps people fighting each other instead of fighting the establishment ruling over them.

It's why subreddits like /r/enligtenedcentrism exist, where they basically make fun of anyone who is not a liberal extremist. And they've poisoned the phrase "both sides" by associating it with reactionary idiocy.

The goal now is to get rid of all the moderates, so only extremists exist anymore. Then it's much easier to run the re-election numbers because you're much more certain of how everyone is going to vote.

Basically, they want control. And the good way to get it is by controlling the minds of others, and the best way to do that is to destroy any moderates and any moderate conversations. Thus from the naive standpoint, the options seem to become "literally nazis, or the sane people". And of course then the latter is the obvious choice. They want everyone thinking like this.

And everyone who refuses to think like this, will now become "the bad guys who are shunned by society". And things just keep polarizing.

Amplitude · 2019-04-18T06:05:44+00:00

What I'm wondering -- what's left to buy? The DNC is gearing up for a fight, but people who might be interested are already on the hate train.
What I'm saying is, the Progressives have saturated their available market. People into "woke" culture are already rabid supporters, and those who haven't succumbed are either critics, conservatives, communists, or just don't pay attention.

So what will they do next?

magnora7 · 2019-04-18T02:12:00+00:00

I agree, I noticed the same patterns you mention. Reddit is so far gone, it's really terrible once you see the full scope of it.

Amplitude · 2019-04-18T02:11:12+00:00

The reason reddit went bad is because the admins turned a blind eye (or perhaps were paid to) while brigading and astroturfing groups took it over, subreddit by subreddit.

Reddit Admins were absolutely paid to control the narrative, or allow other agents access to the narrative.
/Politics and even /worldpolitics changed in 2015-2016.

I've been on reddit for over a decade, the way the "tone" of major subreddits changed to coincide with US Election Lobbying by the DNC is clear.
They banned / silenced people until major subreddits turned into uniform echo chambers, and then they maintained a narrative of RESIST! ORANGE MAN BAD! for the next two years.

JasonCarswell · 2019-04-17T02:35:33+00:00

Show notes, links, comments, platforms, media: https://www.corbettreport.com/the-cfr-loves-domestic-propaganda-propagandawatch/

JasonCarswell · 2019-04-09T13:44:50+00:00

https://PositivePropagandaPeople.com/

JasonCarswell · 2019-04-09T13:32:57+00:00

See also:

https://saidit.net/s/propaganda/comments/j9w/yes_there_is_such_a_thing_as_positive_propaganda/

In NYC 1996-2004 in the village someone used to write masking tape messages on the sidewalk that would often last for weeks. Some were funny, some were too fluffy or wishful, and some were just perfect. Things like, "The Universe is conspiring in your favour."

JasonCarswell · 2019-04-09T13:30:10+00:00

Phrases woven in chain link fences:

“You look lovely.”

“someday I will ignore my doubts”

“remember this”

And my favourite…

“think beauty”

close up

Bonus wordless baroque acanthus scroll design, from Six Fun And Funky Ideas To Transform Your Chain Link Fencing

Many more: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=think+beauty+woven+in+chain+link+fence&&iar=images

JasonCarswell · 2019-04-09T13:28:31+00:00

Phrases woven in chain link fences:

"You look lovely." : https://www.improvisedlife.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/chain-link-fence-sign-1.jpg

"someday I will ignore my doubts" : https://www.improvisedlife.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/chain-link-fence-ignore-my-doubt-.jpg

"remember this" : https://www.improvisedlife.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/chain-link-fence-sign-remember-this.jpg

And my favourite...

"think beauty" : http://www.bunkre.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/thinkb1.jpg

close up : http://www.bunkre.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/thinkb3.jpg

JasonCarswell · 2019-04-09T13:28:22+00:00

Show notes, links, comments, platforms, formats: https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1437-roberto-casanueva-spreads-positive-propaganda/

aggrjgoigoiaj · 2019-04-05T21:39:20+00:00

What's a pyramid of debate?

PS: Found an explanation here: https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/j1/the_saiditnet_terms_and_content_policy/

Zombi · 2019-04-04T13:12:19+00:00

When black people want to have their own place? Imagine if r/whitepeopletwitter did that, it would have the EXACT same reaction, if not worse.

Sylexis · 2019-04-04T12:27:58+00:00

haha no prob.

useless_aether · 2019-04-04T12:12:32+00:00

thank you for letting me know. very sneaky. i dont have twitter, so i am not on top of things over there. i will delete the post.

edit; ... or leave it as a propaganda op example!

Sylexis · 2019-04-04T12:06:30+00:00

Yeah but also a demonstration of how it's like to oppress groups of people by their race. Reddit took the whole thing seriously of course went outrage mode. Quite an eye opener. In a later post BPT listed all the subs that talked about the "change" as an example of how when black people want to have their own space, they're called racist hypocrites. At least that's my understanding.

useless_aether · 2019-04-04T08:58:51+00:00

hm? is it an aprils fool joke?

Sylexis · 2019-04-04T08:52:53+00:00

You fell for it too eh?

HeyImSancho · 2019-04-03T16:59:01+00:00

indeed!

SecretlyHistoric · 2019-04-03T16:35:42+00:00

They also came right out and said that it was not a joke in one of the comments

SecretlyHistoric · 2019-04-03T16:24:08+00:00

I feel like this needs more attention.

useless_aether · 2019-04-03T04:55:21+00:00

high quality cia psyop disinfo

HeyImSancho · 2019-04-03T02:33:21+00:00

Oh snap, how exciting, I can tune into zucker news! Now, I know I'll be okay in life!

asg101 · 2019-03-27T02:26:57+00:00

Yep, in war, the first casualty is truth...

"Remember the Maine!"

Work2Death · 2019-03-27T01:11:32+00:00

I think calling the dailywire the "dailyliar" puts you on the second lowest point of the pyramid of debate that this site is founded on. Good job!

Otherwise, you make a good point and we definitely should wait for the full release (or more likely the leak...). More information would be nice to have before making a judgement call on this.

Tom_Bombadil · 2019-03-27T00:51:06+00:00

This. Except that the lies go back much farther in time.

asg101 · 2019-03-26T20:04:02+00:00

Judith Miller's NYTimes has had zero credibility since they lied us into the Iraq war.

useless_aether · 2019-03-26T15:14:27+00:00

Nice transparency.

true dat

you might like this https://saidit.net/s/conspiracy/comments/hic/painful_mueller_facts/

HoveringOrb · 2019-03-26T14:50:13+00:00

You guys are using Dailyliar as your propaganda antidote? LOL.

Speaking of propaganda, the right wing talking points on all of this all rest on a four sentence summary from the AG. Meanwhile, Mitch McConnell is blocking the release of the full report. Nice transparency.

trevmon · 2019-03-25T13:02:58+00:00

I hear you but it really is a legit problem, and has been for hundreds of years, not mentioning it does no good. You only wish they wouldn't mention it because since birth you have been hit with propaganda saying it isn't true

magnora7 · 2019-03-24T20:43:55+00:00

Ah sorry we lost you, but glad you found us again! :)

Node · 2019-03-24T20:34:54+00:00

I don't know what happened (maybe one of my "lost all open tabs" events?), but at some later point I didn't get the redirect. Glad to see you're still alive and growing!

jacobi · 2019-03-24T18:27:29+00:00

...caused by a lot of jewish bankers...

I get that, I just wish they would focus on the fact that they are bankers, rather than jewish. It's the more relevant trait, no? That seems to me like a more effective starting point for affecting meaningful help for those economically and/or left behind.

magnora7 · 2019-03-24T17:02:38+00:00

Ha funny. We had it pointing at saidit for a while but eventually we let that URL expire for cost reasons

Node · 2019-03-24T06:18:27+00:00

This site used to be called antiextremes.com

So this is what happened! Went to log in one day and the site was just gone. Looks like Dec 29, 2017 was about the last time I logged in.

JasonCarswell · 2019-03-23T20:09:41+00:00

The Overton Michael Jackson tickle fight.

Vigte · 2019-03-23T16:33:40+00:00

I wouldn't call myself a right-winger by any means - but that statement seems a little one sided.

Vigte · 2019-03-23T16:29:48+00:00

The Overton Pillow Fight Slumber Party.

Fruitsi · 2019-03-23T05:31:13+00:00

I agree. Sadly, I don't think it will change. However, I do hope that Saidit does not attract the racist crowrd.

magnora7 · 2019-03-23T04:39:20+00:00

Or destroyed by one user (currently your example talks about boobs).

But it's got the full history so it's very easy to walk back if modified (as I did), and there are variable restrictions to make it so that only more trusted users can modify it.

The replies in the meta-topic are one of the 4 cathegories: sources, discussions, viewpoints, humour. These are also flags/enum. In time there could be some more. They are not necessary in order, but can be filtered or sorted.

This is a really great idea! What if we strip it down even more, and instead of 4 types we have just 2 types: comments (like regular) and sources. Sources consist of only a URL and a headline title limited to 300 characters or so, that must be a copy of the article headline.

Then for a user to submit a source, it'd have a separate box next to the "add comment" box that is already there so users could submit alternate sources. And a source would appear differently from a comment in coloring so it would be obviously different, and would be able to be sorted out differently by the sorts. And people could comment and vote on them like normal.

This is not a bad idea...

zyxzevn · 2019-03-23T03:36:59+00:00

I have done quite some programming, but indeed you would need to add a few new tables and references. Which can have complex complications. Linking is often difficult.

So I decided to make it simpler and very similar to the way discussions work.

I don't think a wiki system will work, as it shows only the data collected by one user or a few users. Or destroyed by one user (currently your example talks about boobs).

The simplest solution for a meta-topic

Each meta-topic can be similar to a normal post with replies underneath. Just with a different flag/enum.

The replies in the meta-topic are one of the 4 cathegories: sources, discussions, viewpoints, humour. These are also flags/enum. In time there could be some more. They are not necessary in order, but can be filtered or sorted.

These replies can be text, but also be a link to a source, or link to a discussion, or a viewpoint-discussion, or a humour reply. So there are 3 (or 4) types of links here. They could be encoded as URL. Viewpoints may need some texts to specify the "what if..", "Let's assume this or that is true".

The replies can start new branches of discussion-replies or discussion-links. Many people might want to add their own "fact checking" of the sources. And these can be discussed again.
Humour posts will be full with memes and other funny shit.
And even some viewpoints might be created in a funny way. Like: What if Trump is controlled by Putin?

I think the combination of depth of discussion and humour will attract nice people to the forum.

I think this could all be simple, if you program it all in a very similar way. But I leave that up to your expertise.

Well, let's give it some rest and maybe one of us will come up with a good solution. ;-)

I have some more on my wish list: I want to write full articles. This would be a post or reply in the discussion category. It would need chapters, revisions, and images right in the text.

magnora7 · 2019-03-23T01:46:17+00:00

It could help to organize the 200 posts that will show up as soon the Muller report gets out.

I do like this type of thing.

When I first had the idea of saidit like 3 years ago, I imagined we could be able to have a story come out, then have 1 post about that story that includes a whole bunch of different sources and angles for the same story, as well as a timeline for the story as it develops. Then it'd be easy to follow a few major stories in a very comprehensive media-analysis kind of way. I think that'd be very valuable, but the technological hurdles are real. Not impossible, just extremely time-consuming. Maybe someday.

The ultimate would be if we can figure out a good way to integrate the wiki system with the rest of the site. Right now every sub has its own wiki. Check this one out for instance, anyone can edit this wiki page: https://saidit.net/s/OpenWikiTest/wiki/index

It's up to the sub's mods how open the wiki editing is, but for this one I've opened it wide up so we can practice as an example.

One bit of progress I made was moving the wiki tools box up to the top of the wiki page, instead of it being buried on the very bottom of the right sidebar like it was before.

But this whole wiki system was extremely under-utilized on reddit, I always felt, and part of that is because of how buried it is.

If we can come up with some sort of plan of a way to easily tie this wiki system in to the main posting/commenting system in a graceful way, that could be a great way to work toward the goals of creating these more long-lasting comprehensive systems to compile news information.

But we need to figure out exactly what that will look like, and then figure out how to code that in.

Right now the only way a person would know the wikis exist at all, is if they were to go to a specific sub, and then notice and click the 'wiki' tab at the top of the sub.

So the idea would be to figure out some way to tie in the wiki with the comment sections of a particular story, I guess. And maybe a way for when a news story article link is posted, for it to be linked somehow to a relevant wiki that is being built up about it. I guess maybe that could be done by comments?

I feel like there's something significant and useful that could be done with all this, but I'm not sure exactly what it would be yet. I'm open to ideas if anyone has any. But I think doing something with integrating the existing wiki structure in to the rest of the site more elegantly could do a lot. Someone just has to figure out a good design/approach for how to do that, that would take the least amount of coding (because that makes it much more likely to get done quickly)

DegenerateFurfag69 · 2019-03-23T00:40:58+00:00

Believe it or not, it wasn't always that unanimously and weirdly white supremacist. It was just the free speech site, and there were pretty normal people there. This was true even after reddit dumped all their worst, most hateful people off there. It was always like everybody hated everybody else, but then they just accepted being hated by each other because they all at least had a love of free speech in common. There were people of every political persuasion. Left wingers, libertarians... Other races too. As long as you didn't get offended easily, you fit right in!

As a Voat user since 2014, THIS THIS THIS. I don't mind Freddy Fundie posting on Voat or Kiwi Farms. What bugs the shit out of me is Freddy Fundie being the universal opinion on Voat instead of having plenty of people who disagree with him.

Once upon a time in the mythical past Voat users on non-TRP/non-ideological subs weren't arguing that abortion is too easy and women should be jobless stay-at-home moms because women working outside the home is caused by feminism urging "careers" and globalists wanting more worker units.

For another example that really sticks in my craw, there was a time when FatPeopleHate had lots of trans users like SkelAngel and ShitLittlePrince, it wasn't the unanimous view that "trannies need to get their delusions fixed by a shrink instead of getting hormones." Now the userbase is dogmatic enough that all the medical science you present is handwaved away because it disagrees with the "trannies are delusional" dogma.

The exact same thing happened on Kiwi Farms. 2015 and 2016 Kiwi Farms threads distinguished between normal trans people and transtrender lolcows. 2017 and 2018 Kiwi Farms threads act like Leelah Alcorn's parents did the right thing and Paul McHugh is a genius superscientist--that it's bad for people to get hormones so they don't look like hons. I don't know what happened to make Kiwi Farms turn from being atheists like Marsmar who laughed at Sonichu invoking GodBearJesus and telling kids to "stay straight" to being "the media is controlled by satan" Bible-thumpers who get upvoted out the wazoo for quoting the New Testament verse against crossdressing, but I hate the change. As someone who grew up evangelical, seeing that happen on Voat and Kiwi Farms is like being Yuri Bezmenov or Victor Kravchenko and seeing Americans around you who've never had to actually live under the shit cheer for communism. The whole reason I've been posting Voat, Kiwi Farms and CringeAnarchy comments to FSTDT.com isn't because I'm offended and want it censored. It's because it's cathartic to get contact with non-fundies who go "yeah, that's batshit crazy" instead of me being the lone non-fundie in a thread.

I mean, /r/yiff had a Voat spinoff. When I posted a "free speech for everyone, including unpopular speech" quote several years ago when Voat was in alpha stage, it was upvoted out the wazoo. I do the same thing now, and everyone on /v/Libertarian is a Hoppean "remove anti-libertarian/anti-white speech" type if they're libertarian at all.

The truth is nobody cared that we had a /v/niggers or whatever other offensive sub. It was fine, because for the most part every group stuck to their subs.

^ ^ ^

Also, the nonwhite users on FatPeopleHate were our best posters.

zyxzevn · 2019-03-22T21:15:10+00:00

Replying because I think you may be interested in these ideas.

The deliberation and meta-topics still needs to be tested of course. I have not heard about the Overton window, and will look it up.

On reddit discussions works well, because similar people get to the same sub-reddit. But these sub-reddits are also echo-chambers of popular opinion. People do not want to change their opinion based on facts. They seem to do it based on emotions. This causes echo-chambers and moderation.

For example. In /r/physics I often get downvoted, because I present the well tested science instead of the popular science. If I write anything bad about the big bang, I will likely get banned. I notice there is a lot of moderation in scientific forums. Discussing 9/11 free fall was even forbidden.

meta-topics proposal

Let's keep the discussion structure as it is and add meta-topics.

The meta-topics are indeed an organisation above the post level that we see. It could even be a different meta-forum on top of this one. The meta-topic could deal with everything about the Muller report. Like a key-word, but more organized. It can be very slow-paced and go on for 2 years.

It could help to organize the 200 posts that will show up as soon the Muller report gets out. This will also bury any other news. If it is all under one meta-topic, people can see different sources at once.

The meta-topic as I see it, has many different sources and discussions and viewpoints underneath.
The viewpoints are just the parts of the discussion that are limited to the viewpoint. There could also be a funny side.

In code: meta-topic= {sources, discussions, viewpoints, funny}

The limiting of the discussions, is not about stopping them. Branches of the discussions can be linked to certain viewpoints in the meta-topic. And people can continue discussions in these viewpoints alone. And add links in these viewpoints to other viewpoints.

It could work as a meta-organisation of the discussions. It may be very valuable after a few years. Like a wikipedia of discussions. Without censorship and with many sources and many viewpoints.

If you are discussing the involvement of the I$raelis in the demolitions at 9/11, you do not want to have the internet task force on you. Instead you want to discuss it and see where it leads. Neither do you want to discuss the powerful political lobby that is going on. Just stay on topic.
But if you think it belongs there, you can a link to a new viewpoint.
Like: what if 9/11 is also part of a mason ritual, or what if they also used nukes. The best viewpoints or links can be upvoted.

My idea behind is that people with certain ideas, can learn a different viewpoint by shifting this viewpoint/window. They can even positively contribute in a discussion that they do not even agree with, by having friendly conversations, or by pointing out certain logical fallacies or biases. Or by sharing some jokes.

A viewpoint is like a discussion that starts with: "What if ..? "
I see this type of discussions often in http://www.reddit.com/r/C_S_T/ and there we have open discussions about occult or weird stuff.

JasonCarswell · 2019-03-22T19:35:06+00:00

The Overton boxing ring.

The Overton humanitarian efforts.

The Overton safe spaces.

No fighting in here gentlemen, this is the war room!

trevmon · 2019-03-22T19:31:56+00:00

I think most of it is israeli shills who say outlandish stuff to try to make legit talk about jewish conspiracies look bad in comparison. Then tho there are some legit people who get carried away, what it boils down to there is the economy in the end, a lot of middle class people have been displaced and the economy never recovered from 2008 and that was caused by a lot of jewish bankers so the hatred and furiousness has just festered.

JasonCarswell · 2019-03-22T19:22:47+00:00

Totalitarian.

magnora7 · 2019-03-22T18:23:51+00:00

Hm okay thanks for the report. If something like that happens again, let me know.

jacobi · 2019-03-22T18:19:58+00:00

valid reasons to be anti Jewish control of Hollywood and banking system.

I would agree, and I think the most concise way to sum that up would to criticize it on systemic grounds, or that it's an issue of privilege. It seems like much of the Voat crowd hates Jews because they're Jews, which is obviously racist and not worth entertaining. What's your take?

trevmon · 2019-03-22T18:10:55+00:00

agreed, if you censor something that someone is saying, that to them makes them even more sure they are true. and as you censor anything even slightly right wing, they start going further right

Would be best to just allow them to say things and disprove them with facts, but they can't, so just censor. SJWs have been lead t obelieve that nazism is coming back so they need to censor but that is them being manipulated

muhammad · 2019-03-22T18:05:28+00:00

Yeah, regular browser works fine.

hypernormalize · 2019-03-22T17:59:23+00:00

I forgot to add the part about not limiting conversation, which is what makes things move to the right.

magnora7 · 2019-03-22T17:54:15+00:00

That's interesting and might be very useful. But at the same time seems very rigid and unforgiving. I think the end result might just be similar to votes on reddit, where the groupthink essentially determines the consensus, because those are the people marking the logical fallacies and so on.

I like your framing of the concept of meta-topics, but I have to wonder if every thread isn't already a meta-topic, if you know what I mean.

Setting the limits of a conversation sounds interesting, but reminds me much of the Overton window, where intense debate is allowed within the window, but things outside the window are effectively taboo and aren't "allowed" to be discussed, and in this way the narrative is kept confined to the status quo.

Interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing.

magnora7 · 2019-03-22T17:48:36+00:00

Thanks. I wonder why that would be. Can you open the link in a regular browser?

trevmon · 2019-03-22T15:42:04+00:00

yeah but i think like with reddit they will pay off the owners to censor it, like how voat has it invite only right now, they don't want the site to succeed, I tried to say this there and got hit with all the usual n words.

sawboss · 2019-03-22T15:34:13+00:00

Much to the detriment of all our aussie friends. In the US we have The First Amendment of course, but Democrats are working furiously to take it down along with the 2nd and 5th.

trevmon · 2019-03-22T15:30:26+00:00

no even if it doesn't "reinforce the prevailing ethos" you can say it. not so on reddit

voat is banned in australia now, I expect this new round of internet censorship to spread to USA soon

sawboss · 2019-03-22T15:12:09+00:00

you're more free to express your thoughts on voat than reddit

Only if my thoughts reinforce the prevailing ethos. And honestly, there are many, many, MANY other things I'd like to discuss.

trevmon · 2019-03-22T15:02:48+00:00

you're more free to express your thoughts on voat than reddit. I'm a far left socialist and post there, get replies saying n word and such to me but whatever at least I'm not banned. On reddit I'm banned from most of the main subs, conspiracy, politics, news etc for being too far left and criticizing hillary. I do think writing is on the wall and internet is being large scaled censored.

muhammad · 2019-03-22T14:14:05+00:00

Just a heads up - I couldn't open the link with the android app.

sawboss · 2019-03-22T14:10:36+00:00

there are valid reasons to be anti immigrant and jewish control of hollywood and banking system.

I'm only willing to say that it should be acceptable to question and critique those things. The question of how to respond to objective evidence on the problems of immigration and the prominence of jews has always been a chicken-versus-egg problem for me. To be perfectly clear, are we anti-them because of supposed systemic abuse or instead because they aren't "white"? I've seen some emotionally persuasive arguments both ways, but compelling objective evidence still escapes me. (Maybe I'm just too stupid?)

You can't say that at all on reddit.

Totally. It's only acceptable to express bigotry against whites, cis-heteros, men, conservatives, christians, and Americans on reddit. Not the other way around.

So they go overboard and not just say that but resort to slurs.

Friend, I wish it were just "slurs". I'd be willing to tolerate that much. What I can't tolerate is an oppressive culture which squashes non-conformity at every turn. I need to be free to think my thoughts and ask my questions, and Voat doesn't offer me that much. Hell, I can even get by easier in a (increasingly limited) set of subs on Reddit, as stifling and offensive as the dominant culture is there, but Reddit has been declining in fun and creativity for years and at an accelerating pace.

I do think that voat will get shut down soon for it.

Will it though? I doubt it. I don't think I even want it to shut down. Just let it be and all the WN types will stay in their comfort zone instead of invading other places.

trevmon · 2019-03-22T13:46:08+00:00

I know what you mean but there are valid reasons to be anti immigrant and jewish control of hollywood and banking system. You can't say that at all on reddit. So they go overboard and not just say that but resort to slurs. I do think that voat will get shut down soon for it. They are already making it invite only and before that you had to wait 24 hours to post, they were trying to keep new people from joining.

sawboss · 2019-03-22T13:42:43+00:00

people on voat go a little overboard with their new found freedom

Nope. The predominant ethos of Voat, meaning all subs, is explicitly anti-jew, anti-black, and white nationalist in approximately that priority. If you want to farm karma on Voat just write an antisemitic rant or post a ridiculous picture of a black person. If you want to be silenced, write a post which questions that ethos, or suggests the possibility of living peacefully with jews and blacks.

trevmon · 2019-03-22T13:28:37+00:00

on voat I think everyone is from reddit and left in disgust because reddit is completely overridden by shills and legit people are banned quick. So people on voat go a little overboard with their new found freedom to talk. Also I think there are shills posting racist stuff to make it look like there are white supremacist terrorists increasing due to trump (there aren't).

sawboss · 2019-03-22T12:18:12+00:00

I don't want racism.

It's one of the ugliest facets of human societies. Sadly, racism seems to be a "feature" of human nature which I doubt will ever be fully expunged. There are evolutionary reasons for promoting the interests of your own nearest relatives over others.

sawboss · 2019-03-22T12:10:42+00:00

I like the free speech aspect

Me too, but Voat is free speech in name only. The karma system inhibits participation from minority opinions. It's also pretty damn discouraging to get dogpiled by dozens or even hundreds of downvoats when asking honest questions and hoping for an answer. You get no answers, aside from "SHILL DETECTED" and such.

propaganda

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