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Trump caves to the nanny state on flavored e-cigarettes
submitted 10 months ago by dcjogger from washingtonexaminer.com
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[–]VantaFount 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago* (1 child)
brushes off the top of the Soapbox
Sorry I couldn't stick around this morning in order to properly debate this with you, but I was scheduled to work. Fortunately in this format we can continue on at any time.
While I'm pleased to see your interest in debate , I do need to note that Onus Probandi; the Burden of Proof, tends to rest upon the person making a claim.
You can't simply deflect the responsibility to show proof of your assertion.
In this case you have claimed that
"vaping is giving people cancer FASTER than smokong" [SIC]
And you're right.... that I'm quite dismissive of this claim. It's every bit as nonsensical as when people were telling me "Those vapes are giving people popcorn lung!" Because there has never been a case of popcorn lung caused by vaping flavors that contain diacetyl, acetylpropionyl, or any other undesirable chemical.
And I suspect you cannot produce a single case that will show that a person's Cancer has been directly attributed to Vaping.
Vaping has actually been around for more than a decade in the United States, and even longer in China, where the invention was first developed. I myself started vaping six years ago, in order to counteract a fifteen year long smoking habit that had spread to 2.5 packs per day. (45-50 cigarettes)
I now work for an FDA-registered E-liquid Manufacturer, and my two main jobs are to help people stay away from cigarettes, and counteract disinformation such as yours.
You may not be aware, but the Royal College of Physicians (UK) performed a multi-year study on a wide array of vaping products. Their conclusion was, quote*
"the hazard to health arising from long-term vapour inhalation from the e-cigarettes available today is unlikely to exceed 5% of the harm from smoking tobacco."
You might have heard of the Royal College of Physicians before. These are the people that were telling the British populace back in the 1960s that cigarettes would give you cancer and likely kill you.
Meanwhile on American television we were seeing commercials stating 'X out of Y Doctors Recommend This Brand of cigarette over it's competitors'
Recently, the National Health Service (UK) has seen fit to allow vape shops to be put in hospitals* in order to help patients/smokers make the switch to something that they feel is proven to be less harmful, and to help people stay off of combustible tobacco.
"Also, let us not forget the new lung disease that vaping users are coming down with."[SIC]
There is indeed an illness that is raising questions about vaping in the US. (and only the US. Literally no other country is having such illnesses) but I believe you're throwing your blame at the wrong target. From the reports that the victims are giving, this seems to be more related to black-market cartridges of "vapable" THC. We in the vaping industry have labelled this activity "Danking" because the US media refused to delineate the two activities from one another. In a majority of the cases the THC seems to be suspended in an oil, and in others the product also seems to have been "cut" with Tocopherol (Vitamin E Acetate) in order to make the mixture look thicker, and emulate the viscosity of legitimate THC vape cartridges that come from states where THC consumption is legal, regulated, and held to industry standards.
Vaping fats and oils causes a disease called Lipoid Pneumonia.
And if you go creating a black market for ALL vaping products, you can be fairly certain you'll be seeing a lot more people die.
People are making these counterfeit "Danking" cartridges because there is a Black Market.
In states where THC use is illegal you can sell a 1mL THC "Dank Cart" for $60-$80.
Counterfeit cartridges can be made with oil-dissolved THC, and you can even buy appropriate packaging to make the Dank seem legitimate, for roughly $5-10 each.
That's an incredible profit margin.
And just to let you in on a little trade secret: Most legitimate nicotine e-liquid isn't expensive to produce either. The label tends to be the most expensive part of the entire bottle. But when you walk into a Legitimate vape shop, it's not simply the bottle of e-liquid you're paying for; It's also the comfort that your e-liquid isn't going to kill you just because some crackpot decided it would be a good idea to add things like powdered deer antler velvet (this really happened*) to the liquid to make it more "natural" and "healthy".
If the millions of vapers in the US were suddenly denied access to their preferred form of nicotine, you would see two major effects.
1) Lots of people wouldn't bother fighting the ban. They'd stop in at the corner store, see that familiar guy behind the counter, and grudgingly ask for a pack of smokes
2) There would be a nicotine e-liquid black market. People would be mixing up liquids in their own homes, cutting it with who knows what, adding any sort of sweeteners they had on hand, selling the bottles for $1 per mL or more, and making a Lot of money.
"i believe people try to find conspiracy in everything." [SIC]
You keep using that word.
I do not think it means what you think it means.
Conspiracy has a very simple, broad definition.
Conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people to commit an illegal act, along with an intent to achieve the agreement's goal.
I would argue that news media purposely obfuscating important facts in order to give legislators the pretense to ban something that is A} Not likely to be the cause of the illness, and B} is not bringing State governments the profits they desire
would qualify as Conspiracy.
We can certainly agree that focus needs to be spent on important matters, but this topic directly affects me, just as it affects everyone that is trying to get away from the biggest man-made epidemic in human history: The Chemically-Cured Tobacco Cigarette.
[–]astronautrob 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun - 10 months ago (0 children)
There it is. Love it bro keep it coming!