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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Indeed, deracination. But since you're a fan of abstractions and thought experiments:

Obviously I'd pick Town 3 - 95% White. But to borrow from you, I can already do something like that, and it isn't working out as well as I'd like.

I'm fundamentally in agreement about the desirability of homogeneity, and yes race is very correlated with this, but there are still some things that give me pause here. Maybe you have a viewpoint I haven't considered.

It seems like in this arrangement, more people will fundamentally agree about more things, but there is less room for disagreement from the consensus. As opposed to socially liberalish ideologies where there is less fundamental agreement, but more room to diverge. I have to say this gives me some pause. Very smart people are often non-conformists, and have new and threatening ideas. Galileo being jailed for his theories against christian orthodoxy comes to mind. I worry very much that this pressure to conform is coming from the mediocre masses, and would rather crush or oppress those who might have objectively better ideas than them. This might very well work better for most people than what we are doing right now, but it's much harder to imagine somewhat of a non-comformist such as myself benefiting from this. I picture a society with arbitrary rules based on tradition and conventions, that rigidly conforms to them, and is threatened by new ideas - and this does not seem desirable from my perspective, but perhaps this is a misconception. This sounds like a recipe for tyranny against anyone who disagrees with consensus, and anyone unfortunate enough to be in that boat is rather fucked with no recourse

I guess I'm also not totally sold on the race aspect in some ways, because it leads to conclusions that conflict with other beliefs I have.

To give another thought experiment:

  1. 16-17th century Britain, home to more than half of my ancestors, and something of an ethnostate. We have feudalism and serfdom. We have catholics and protestants killing over slightly differing interpretations of nearly the same religion, we have filthy disease ridden overcrowded cities.

  2. Same time period, North America with one of the more egalitarian indigenous groups.

I'm not sure I don't pick #2 here. To bring up your arguments about what is natural, it's the British that seem to be living in an unnatural state.

You make these arguments about race and culture, but I think there is more to it than this. The German people were pagan Barbarians at one point, living a lifestyle not that different from indigenous people in North America until the Romans came along and forced civilization upon them. What is the cultural and racial legacy of these people? Their traditional ways, or the Roman legacy of civilization and christianity?

I wouldn't necessarily call myself a primitivist, but I think Kaczynski and others may be at least partially right about the problems of civilization. Humans did not evolve to live in these current kind of conditions, and we have rampant mental illness and social problems compared to more primitive peoples. Maslow even got his idea about the hierarchy of needs from an indigennous group - being basic food/clothing/shelter, and then primarily meaningful social relationships, not necessarily spoils industrialization.

[–]MarkimusNational Justice Party[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Same time period, North America with one of the more egalitarian indigenous groups.

I suggest you do more research on the tribes of America. They were brutal savages, not noble savages. The noble savage myth was invented by anthropologists who were lying, Ted Kaczynski discusses this in Technological Slavery, as does Kevin MacDonald in Culture of Critique.

What is the cultural and racial legacy of these people? Their traditional ways, or the Roman legacy of civilization and christianity?

Both.

I wouldn't necessarily call myself a primitivist, but I think Kaczynski

Neither would Ted, he devoted a chapter of Technological Slavery against Primitivism. It's the same one where he talks about the noble savage myth being a falsification of Boasians.

I wouldn't necessarily call myself a primitivist, but I think Kaczynski and others may be at least partially right about the problems of civilization. Humans did not evolve to live in these current kind of conditions, and we have rampant mental illness and social problems compared to more primitive peoples. Maslow even got his idea about the hierarchy of needs being basic food/clothing/shelter, and then primarily meaningful social relationships, not necessarily the cell-phones, dishwashers, and disposable junk or material other spoils of industrialization.

Yes, the only modern state that deals with the problems of the technological society, media etc to create a pro-social, high social capital etc society has been fascism. The only other solution is de-complexification but that is a pipedream that would make the state give up its own power, which would lead to it massive instability, famine etc internally, or just conquest by other states. The only solution to anyone who has communitarian ideals or ethical problems with modern society is the fascist one.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They were brutal savages, not noble savages. The noble savage myth was invented by anthropologists who were lying

Yes absolutely, I should have expanded upon that, it wasn't my intention to imply they weren't brutal savages, just that the British of that period don't seem unambiguously less dysfunctional in their own ways.

I certainly like the idea of de-complexifaction better, but I don't have an answer to your critique about the likelihood of conquest by other states, this part does seem inevitable. I'll admit its a bit utopian.

Yes, the only modern state that deals with the problems of the technological society, media etc to create a pro-social, high social capital etc society has been fascism.

Well, I do think this an important problem to address, and admit I perhaps do not have the full picture of how fascism relates to this issue specifically. Is there any reading you might suggest to give me a better understanding of fascist thinking regarding this particular subject?

[–]MarkimusNational Justice Party[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well, I do think this an important problem to address, and admit I perhaps do not have the full picture of how fascism relates to this issue specifically. Is there any reading you might suggest to give me a better understanding of fascist thinking regarding this particular subject?

There does not yet exist a book that analyses this and juxtaposes the Third Reich to the Postmodern West. It's just me piecing together stuff from books, podcasts, articles, studies etc either on fascism or studying the history of the west post-war IE their response to fascism and how they've consciously engineered society to be the inverse of fascism through intentional deracination, atomisation, suburbanisation, city planning around cars, postmodernism/anti-authoritarian personality, destroying the family and church, getting rid of unions and social clubs etc etc.

If I ever write this book I'll be sure to let you know lol. There does exist tonnes of books on each of these topics individually though, most of them don't talk about fascism/NS but if you learn about post-war projects and then combine that with 'Bowling for Fascism' and 'The Civic Foundations of Fascism' you can get a pretty decent footing.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think another part of this is that I often see negative aspects of authoritarian ideologies, it leaves me skeptical about any ideology that has this aspect. At the same time, I'd have to say that it isn't the authoritarianism itself that I object to - I object to bad authority, and I've seen plenty of bad authority. However, I have no objection to a theoretical perfect (or even good enough) authority, so I realize this is a bias more than a real philosophical objection

You've represented your ideology in a compelling and thoughtful manner, enough that I am curious to check out some of these materials and get a better idea about the fascist school of thought.

I appreciate the intellectually stimulating conversation about these ideas