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[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

How exactly is "Make America Great Again" anti-democracy? Isn't the whole point that the once-great American democracy has been compromised by the swamp of corrupt politicians and turned into a tyrannical oligarchy?

[–]FozzieBear[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

MAGA is a lie, stolen from Reagan's campaigns, meant to indicate that these two TV people - as outsiders - could return the US to it's 1950s and early 1960s past, when the benefits of the New Deal and WWII industry allowed for the one-earner family and discrimination against blacks and women. It's a slogan aimed partially at boomers who were born in that period. It's a lie that the TV personality can drain the swamp and restore the US to a more prosperous time. It's an assumption that the Obama administration ruined the US (albeit with low debt and low unemployment and high growth in industry and big business and Wall Street values). It's a lie that corruption will end (though Trump & family & friends are most corrupt in US history). It's entirely focused on the great white(orange) saviour, on ultranationalism, on white supremacy, on the subjucation of women (abortion laws, packing the supreme court, a big deal for Repugs), on smaller government and increased authoritarianism (and corporate deregulation and abuses), on "Christian" bigotry, on racism, on homophobia, on class warfare against the 99%, on the superior 1% runing the inferiour 99%, on the notion that the 99% could pull up their bootstraps and become the 1% (never happening), on lower wages, on the destruction of govermnent departments that help with education, environment, human rights, social programs, &c, about welfare for the 1%, tax cuts, and about making the 99% pay for those loans, aboud grift, corruption, pay-to-play politics, about money laundering, about offshore accounts, about jerrymandering GOP districts, about Citizens United, about an oligarchy, about international proxy wars, about selling CIA secrets to Saudis and getting CIA operatives and translators in the middle east killed, about making billionnaires of the Kushners and Trumps and a few Russians, about manipulating people into thinking that Twittler is going to save the nation, that authoritarian leaders will look after the nation, that one should not trust elections (unless Trump wins), that you should assume that everyone on the Hill is the same, that the US is the greatest country on earth (though it lags behind many other nations in poverty, healthcare, education, gun control, mass shootings, etc, etc, etc), that the only way to MAGA is to wear a slogan on your hat and be an asshole to 90% of the country. It would take a while to explain the MAGA fascist ideology. You can look it up. It's commonly known.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You contradicted yourself a lot of times. I'll have to go through it point-by-point.

MAGA is a lie, stolen from Reagan's campaigns, meant to indicate that these two TV people - as outsiders - could return the US to it's 1950s and early 1960s past, when the benefits of the New Deal and WWII industry allowed for the one-earner family and discrimination against blacks and women. It's a slogan aimed partially at boomers who were born in that period.

No, they're trying to return the 1950s and 60s past when the federal government didn't have near-absolute power and people didn't blindly bow to its authority, and recognized the horrors of communism. They are on the side of the people back then who were not racist or sexist, but rather egalitarian. Not racist or sexist, not reverse racist or sexist, no double standards. By contrast, those demanding reverse discrimination today are following the likes of LBJ and his plot to trap minorities into the Democratic party with socialist propaganda. We had moved past racism and judgement based on skin color for decades, but the radical left had to reignite it again, later causing the right also to return to it in reaction.

It's a lie that the TV personality can drain the swamp and restore the US to a more prosperous time. It's an assumption that the Obama administration ruined the US (albeit with low debt and low unemployment and high growth in industry and big business and Wall Street values). It's a lie that corruption will end (though Trump & family & friends are most corrupt in US history).

He came close to draining the swamp, ever wonder why all the government and media despises him so much while every other corrupt and immoral politician gets a free pass? And the Obama administration expanded government when it was already too big, taking after the previous administration in many respects, and brought back racism after we had moved past that for nearly half a century.

It's entirely focused on the great white(orange) saviour, on ultranationalism, on white supremacy,

That's blatant fake news. No Trump supporter I know of considers his skin color important, nor does Trump himself. As a matter of fact the Trump supporters are actually the conservatives who didn't cave to this new wave of actual racism and sexism and *-phobia that was caused by the 2020 riots.

on the subjucation of women (abortion laws,

Oh come on, abortion has nothing to do with subjugating women and we all know that's just how leftists rewrite the issue to make themselves look like the only moral option. The real debate is over when life begins, nothing to do with women.

packing the supreme court, a big deal for Repugs),

That's Biden and the Democrats who want to pack the court, because it's the only branch they don't have control of right now.

on smaller government and increased authoritarianism

Is that an error, or do you actually think you can accuse them of two opposite things?

(and corporate deregulation and abuses), on "Christian" bigotry, on racism, on homophobia,

That wasn't a thing until the rioting of 2020 literally made them believe in those things. Before that it was found only among a few fringe lolcows who no one wanted anything to do with. Not only that, but the constant liberal slandering caused people who did believe in those things to flock to the GOP because they were falsely told it did too, and the Streisand effect encouraged it among those who were already there and formerly vehemently opposed it.

on class warfare against the 99%, on the superior 1% runing the inferiour 99%, on the notion that the 99% could pull up their bootstraps and become the 1% (never happening), on lower wages,

It's not happening because the government keeps protecting the megacorps with laws and regulations. They get funding, special treatment, and don't have to follow the same regulations as their competition, and in some cases the government even enforces a monopoly for them. I can't even think of a single big business that isn't in full support of the Democrat party. It's Mom & Pop that they're driving into the ground.

on the destruction of govermnent departments that help with education, environment, human rights, social programs,

Because none of those ever work for more than a short time, and always result in burdens of unkeepable regulations and excuses for authoritarianism.

&c, about welfare for the 1%, tax cuts, and about making the 99% pay for those loans, aboud grift, corruption, pay-to-play politics, about money laundering, about offshore accounts, about jerrymandering GOP districts, about Citizens United, about an oligarchy, about international proxy wars, about selling CIA secrets to Saudis and getting CIA operatives and translators in the middle east killed, about making billionnaires of the Kushners and Trumps and a few Russians, about manipulating people into thinking that Twittler is going to save the nation, that authoritarian leaders will look after the nation,

You're describing the Democrats again.

that one should not trust elections (unless Trump wins),

The 2020 election is the only one that was challenged, and for obvious reasons. And remember, when Trump won the left was claiming the election had been stolen then too, so have a taste of your own medicine for once.

that you should assume that everyone on the Hill is the same, that the US is the greatest country on earth (though it lags behind many other nations in poverty, healthcare, education, gun control, mass shootings, etc, etc, etc),

What the media doesn't tell you is how bad other countries actually are with those things. First of all, they rely on the United States to support it all. Second, those countries are authoritarian shitholes where the government has a monopoly on everything and gives you crappy services you can't find alternatives for. They censor you and imprison you for dissent. They tell you what you're going to do all your life. They tell you what you're allowed to believe. You have to wait forever to get all these "free" services, and they suck; but since there's no competition or responsibility when you're the government, they get away with it. And you waste 99% of your money to pay for this. The media slants the statistics to look like paradise, but doesn't tell you this part. Why do you think so many people come here from other countries to get healthcare, education, work, and freedom? If they were really that much better, you'd think it would be the other way around. But no, everyone wants to come to the US. North Korea has free EVERYTHING, but if you want to go to the doctor you have to wait forever, then get a doctor who has no idea what they're doing, and they're so poor you'll have to get your surgery wide awake. And if you dare question the system you disappear to the torture camp where you have to eat scraps of food picked out of shit because the guards are too busy beating you for "hate speech" to feed you.

that the only way to MAGA is to wear a slogan on your hat and be an asshole to 90% of the country. It would take a while to explain the MAGA fascist ideology. You can look it up. It's commonly known.

No, we're all just sick of the swamp and intolerant woke SJWism threatening to turn the US communist, much to the delight of the corrupt politicians who would be in charge of the new regime.

[–]FozzieBear[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the thoughtful explanations. This is one of the reasons I visit Saidit - to see how you and others here have been influenced by the past 6 years of politics, and beyond. We obviously don't agree on much of this, and sometimes I wonder where there can be middle ground. Sadly the radicalized and polarized political discourses developed by the right wing have had a lasting impact on you and others, so that it's now much more difficult to find common ground beteen so-called left and right political interests. I've been an independent and a moderate, and veyr much against extremism on the right and left, and what I read here in your comments is a summary of many of the arguments from the right. It's a good summary, in some places. The main problem we have is that these right-wing beliefs work against the 99%, and play into the propaganda ot the 1%. Everything you note here has been in the news at Fox and other right wing propaganda outlets. I'll pick one example, "That's Biden and the Democrats who want to pack the court." Did they? Trump added numerous political hacks to federal courts and 3 hacks to the Supreme Court. It was previously illegal to pack courts with political hacks. The confirmation process for justices was supposed to put a stop to this. It's fascism in it's ideology - to for example - overturn Roe v Wade when 80 or 90% of the country NEVER wanted it. It's anti-democratic.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolute democracy is merely a different name for mob rule, and that's as tyrannical as any form of government. That's why the founding fathers were careful to place limits on democratic powers...which we've very much overstepped to our own detriment. In fact, if you care about "minorities", absolute democracy will result in tyranny of the majority and oppression of minorities. So there needs to be a lot of limitation on government power, and the will of "the people" to oppress outsiders. So even if 90% of people don't want Roe vs. Wade overturned (it's nowhere close to that high), it still needs to be overturned for the unborn infants' sakes. Likewise, if 90% of people want you put to death, they're still not allowed.

No one should be forcefully subject to any human institution. It's society's doing that I was born into this awful world, not mine, so I don't owe them anything.