Do MAGA misinformation and fascist ideology pose a threat to democracy? Here's a point of view from a historian of radical right politics. (I don't expect others here to like this, but you might find this informative and worthy of discussion or debate.)

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[–]FozzieBear[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

It's merely an umbrella term for an authoritarian/ultra-national/far-right ideology. Trump is indeed a selfish prick. But his MAGA rhetoric (written for him by Steven Miller and other fascist Jews and non-Jews) is part of the threat to the general appreciation of democracy in the US.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

How exactly is "Make America Great Again" anti-democracy? Isn't the whole point that the once-great American democracy has been compromised by the swamp of corrupt politicians and turned into a tyrannical oligarchy?

[–]ID10T 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Denying the results of the election is pretty anti-democratic. But I'm not worried about it. I don't think enough people take it seriously to be a real threat. But hypothetically, if half the country actually believed the election was a fraud and were willing to do a real insurrection and Trump was able to stage a coup, then we'd see the end of democracy.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The 2020 election was obviously rigged. Even in some more liberal areas more people supported Trump than Biden. And he was winning until the mail-in ballots came, when the counters wouldn't let security watch them and were caught on camera rewriting peoples' votes. Plus, it's way too easy to fake those mail-in votes. And we also proved that the Dominion voting machines returned 75% for Biden if given an equal number of Trump and Biden votes. Support for Trump was higher than any president in American history, including Trump himself in 2016. And the total amount of votes for Trump and Biden iirc was more than the number of people in the United States.

[–]FozzieBear[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

MAGA is a lie, stolen from Reagan's campaigns, meant to indicate that these two TV people - as outsiders - could return the US to it's 1950s and early 1960s past, when the benefits of the New Deal and WWII industry allowed for the one-earner family and discrimination against blacks and women. It's a slogan aimed partially at boomers who were born in that period. It's a lie that the TV personality can drain the swamp and restore the US to a more prosperous time. It's an assumption that the Obama administration ruined the US (albeit with low debt and low unemployment and high growth in industry and big business and Wall Street values). It's a lie that corruption will end (though Trump & family & friends are most corrupt in US history). It's entirely focused on the great white(orange) saviour, on ultranationalism, on white supremacy, on the subjucation of women (abortion laws, packing the supreme court, a big deal for Repugs), on smaller government and increased authoritarianism (and corporate deregulation and abuses), on "Christian" bigotry, on racism, on homophobia, on class warfare against the 99%, on the superior 1% runing the inferiour 99%, on the notion that the 99% could pull up their bootstraps and become the 1% (never happening), on lower wages, on the destruction of govermnent departments that help with education, environment, human rights, social programs, &c, about welfare for the 1%, tax cuts, and about making the 99% pay for those loans, aboud grift, corruption, pay-to-play politics, about money laundering, about offshore accounts, about jerrymandering GOP districts, about Citizens United, about an oligarchy, about international proxy wars, about selling CIA secrets to Saudis and getting CIA operatives and translators in the middle east killed, about making billionnaires of the Kushners and Trumps and a few Russians, about manipulating people into thinking that Twittler is going to save the nation, that authoritarian leaders will look after the nation, that one should not trust elections (unless Trump wins), that you should assume that everyone on the Hill is the same, that the US is the greatest country on earth (though it lags behind many other nations in poverty, healthcare, education, gun control, mass shootings, etc, etc, etc), that the only way to MAGA is to wear a slogan on your hat and be an asshole to 90% of the country. It would take a while to explain the MAGA fascist ideology. You can look it up. It's commonly known.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

You contradicted yourself a lot of times. I'll have to go through it point-by-point.

MAGA is a lie, stolen from Reagan's campaigns, meant to indicate that these two TV people - as outsiders - could return the US to it's 1950s and early 1960s past, when the benefits of the New Deal and WWII industry allowed for the one-earner family and discrimination against blacks and women. It's a slogan aimed partially at boomers who were born in that period.

No, they're trying to return the 1950s and 60s past when the federal government didn't have near-absolute power and people didn't blindly bow to its authority, and recognized the horrors of communism. They are on the side of the people back then who were not racist or sexist, but rather egalitarian. Not racist or sexist, not reverse racist or sexist, no double standards. By contrast, those demanding reverse discrimination today are following the likes of LBJ and his plot to trap minorities into the Democratic party with socialist propaganda. We had moved past racism and judgement based on skin color for decades, but the radical left had to reignite it again, later causing the right also to return to it in reaction.

It's a lie that the TV personality can drain the swamp and restore the US to a more prosperous time. It's an assumption that the Obama administration ruined the US (albeit with low debt and low unemployment and high growth in industry and big business and Wall Street values). It's a lie that corruption will end (though Trump & family & friends are most corrupt in US history).

He came close to draining the swamp, ever wonder why all the government and media despises him so much while every other corrupt and immoral politician gets a free pass? And the Obama administration expanded government when it was already too big, taking after the previous administration in many respects, and brought back racism after we had moved past that for nearly half a century.

It's entirely focused on the great white(orange) saviour, on ultranationalism, on white supremacy,

That's blatant fake news. No Trump supporter I know of considers his skin color important, nor does Trump himself. As a matter of fact the Trump supporters are actually the conservatives who didn't cave to this new wave of actual racism and sexism and *-phobia that was caused by the 2020 riots.

on the subjucation of women (abortion laws,

Oh come on, abortion has nothing to do with subjugating women and we all know that's just how leftists rewrite the issue to make themselves look like the only moral option. The real debate is over when life begins, nothing to do with women.

packing the supreme court, a big deal for Repugs),

That's Biden and the Democrats who want to pack the court, because it's the only branch they don't have control of right now.

on smaller government and increased authoritarianism

Is that an error, or do you actually think you can accuse them of two opposite things?

(and corporate deregulation and abuses), on "Christian" bigotry, on racism, on homophobia,

That wasn't a thing until the rioting of 2020 literally made them believe in those things. Before that it was found only among a few fringe lolcows who no one wanted anything to do with. Not only that, but the constant liberal slandering caused people who did believe in those things to flock to the GOP because they were falsely told it did too, and the Streisand effect encouraged it among those who were already there and formerly vehemently opposed it.

on class warfare against the 99%, on the superior 1% runing the inferiour 99%, on the notion that the 99% could pull up their bootstraps and become the 1% (never happening), on lower wages,

It's not happening because the government keeps protecting the megacorps with laws and regulations. They get funding, special treatment, and don't have to follow the same regulations as their competition, and in some cases the government even enforces a monopoly for them. I can't even think of a single big business that isn't in full support of the Democrat party. It's Mom & Pop that they're driving into the ground.

on the destruction of govermnent departments that help with education, environment, human rights, social programs,

Because none of those ever work for more than a short time, and always result in burdens of unkeepable regulations and excuses for authoritarianism.

&c, about welfare for the 1%, tax cuts, and about making the 99% pay for those loans, aboud grift, corruption, pay-to-play politics, about money laundering, about offshore accounts, about jerrymandering GOP districts, about Citizens United, about an oligarchy, about international proxy wars, about selling CIA secrets to Saudis and getting CIA operatives and translators in the middle east killed, about making billionnaires of the Kushners and Trumps and a few Russians, about manipulating people into thinking that Twittler is going to save the nation, that authoritarian leaders will look after the nation,

You're describing the Democrats again.

that one should not trust elections (unless Trump wins),

The 2020 election is the only one that was challenged, and for obvious reasons. And remember, when Trump won the left was claiming the election had been stolen then too, so have a taste of your own medicine for once.

that you should assume that everyone on the Hill is the same, that the US is the greatest country on earth (though it lags behind many other nations in poverty, healthcare, education, gun control, mass shootings, etc, etc, etc),

What the media doesn't tell you is how bad other countries actually are with those things. First of all, they rely on the United States to support it all. Second, those countries are authoritarian shitholes where the government has a monopoly on everything and gives you crappy services you can't find alternatives for. They censor you and imprison you for dissent. They tell you what you're going to do all your life. They tell you what you're allowed to believe. You have to wait forever to get all these "free" services, and they suck; but since there's no competition or responsibility when you're the government, they get away with it. And you waste 99% of your money to pay for this. The media slants the statistics to look like paradise, but doesn't tell you this part. Why do you think so many people come here from other countries to get healthcare, education, work, and freedom? If they were really that much better, you'd think it would be the other way around. But no, everyone wants to come to the US. North Korea has free EVERYTHING, but if you want to go to the doctor you have to wait forever, then get a doctor who has no idea what they're doing, and they're so poor you'll have to get your surgery wide awake. And if you dare question the system you disappear to the torture camp where you have to eat scraps of food picked out of shit because the guards are too busy beating you for "hate speech" to feed you.

that the only way to MAGA is to wear a slogan on your hat and be an asshole to 90% of the country. It would take a while to explain the MAGA fascist ideology. You can look it up. It's commonly known.

No, we're all just sick of the swamp and intolerant woke SJWism threatening to turn the US communist, much to the delight of the corrupt politicians who would be in charge of the new regime.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

If there is but a single statement in there that I'd hesitate to defend, it might be the subjugation of women. Women are under attack in current politics, but I'd argue that it's the left and the democrats doing the attacking. Abortion rights and safe spaces are being eliminated, men are the new women and are apparently the better ones according to trans lobbies and sports councils, it's ridiculous. Abortion was never an issue when safe, legal and rare (rare being proportion to the vast overpopulation of the west thanks to massive over breeding and immigration from inferior nations).

[–]Alienhunter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If you wish to ignore the constant resistance to Roe from the right that existed for decades and was largely dominated by women that narrative works but ignoring it is exactly the reason why it wasn't countered effectively.

The right doesn't view abortion as a women's rights issue it's a moral issue. It's similar to how the left currently views the LGBTQ issues as a moral crusade and ignore the medical and societal effects of it because basic human rights are considered to be violated and that is seen as more important than all else including other people's rights.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It is true that there has been opposition from the right, especially from the holier than thou church folk. The right wing challenge abortion on moral grounds, but tend to have no problems with the death penalty. It kind of contradicts the whole 'all life is sacred' rhetoric.

[–]Alienhunter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This betrays a misunderstanding of their position. People who indeed hold the "all life is sacred" position do tend to oppose the death penalty as well for this reason, it also includes vegans and other assumably left wing positions that see that taking of any life as a moral wrong.

The right wing anti-abortion position is better summed up as "innocent human life is sacred" hardly controversial. In this view the death row inmate has been (hopefully) tried and found guilty through due process and as such the death is not seen as a moral outrage as the party is guilty. Whereas the unborn child has committed no crime and is therefore innocent and undeserving of death.

The real crux of the issue then revolves around at what point does one become a person. For the pro-abortion positions they consider the fetus being aborted to not be a person so the claim that the fetus has rights is rightly seen as rediculous. But to the anti-abortion position the fetus is not seen as fundamentally different than a baby, therefore a person and the position that it should be killed without probable cause is seen as rediculous.

The real thorny part that comes into play is that very few people hold extreme anti-abortion or pro-abortion positions in America.

Most people in the anti-abortion camp will agree that any kind of medically necessary abortion, either removing a fetus that is already dead or one whose birth will cause severe health risks to the mother, is perfectly justifiable, in the same logic that it's justifiable to kill when your own life is in danger.

Likewise most people on the pro-abortion position will also agree that it's not right to allow fully elective abortions of pregnancies that have proceeded into the third trimester as there is again little difference between a third trimester fetus and a baby in terms of development. Also the woman would have ample time and opportunity to seek an abortion before this point to exercise her right to choose whether or not to proceed with the pregnancy. (Admittingly, this is often used as a right wing talking point and I'll fully concede that any sane woman would not carry her pregnancy for 9 months only to decide to get an abortion on a whim).

The truly controversial part of this conversation comes down to the period from contraception to the second trimester on whether or not abortions should be allowed for elective reasons. Even then most people are largely in favor of allowing them very early in the pregnancy. Except for as you say the holier than thou church folk.

The issue with the debate is it's been ceded largely to the extremists on both sides for fundraising purposes and is used very much for this purpose. Politicians are less interested in securing women's rights than they are in securing their votes and donations. Otherwise they have had ample opportunities to counter right-wing opposition to Roe by pursuing federal abortion legislation that would have codified the position with something that would have appealed to the vast majority of Americans.

Painting this as a Women's issue is essentially painting it as a moral issue. Rather than a socio-economic issue. For the state of the discourse in the US however it's best described as a political tool rather than a serious position politicians are committed to furthering. The only women largely effected by Roe being reversed are poor women in red states, and while I'm not without empathy for how this uniquely impacts them, it's not without some understanding that this is something that they have agreed with, and in many cases an outcome that they wanted and voted towards.

To say it's a women's issue isn't wrong, but to say there is any solidarity amongst women on it is a misconception. If there is to be progress in Red states on this issue then typical talking points towards abortion need to be abandoned. Naturally focusing on programs that help prevent women from getting pregnant in the first place will see far more success in these areas than you'll see making arguments towards abortion in general.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The right wing anti-abortion position is better summed up as "innocent human life is sacred" hardly controversial.

Except quite a few of these people have supported US imperial warfare that has cost a whole lot of innocent lives. And don't give me any nonsense about saving the people, we don't deploy our army to save the people of the Congo from genocide, only in places that are of economic interest

[–]Alienhunter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes many people hold paradoxical viewpoints on different issues. It's because their underlying positions are often more influenced by propoganda than underlying personal conviction. It is not hard to convince someone that abortion is monstrous behavior while at the same time convincing them that bombing innocents abroad is a necessary evil.

As abortion has become an issue that many people treat as singular to their decision on who to vote for. Politicians running for red or blue districts have little choice in matter except to adopt the position that will grant them victory regardless of their own view on the issue. So naturally you will get some very paradoxical ideological profiles if you are naive enough to assume that politicians honestly follow the urgings of their conscience rather that the desire for power.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The right is unfortunately attacking them too now. The left has gone so crazy that the right wants to go full blown traditionalism to retaliate, and that includes mandating 1950s gender roles and banning women from voting again. All in the name of God of course, everything is good as long as it has God's name attached to it, right? The name of God is slandered in the nations because of you, as it is written. They're attacking men too.

I don't think the left is really attacking them, I think they just don't care and have disregarded them in favor of tucutes. They are 100% attacking and demonizing men though. To the point where everyone actually thinks all men are rapists and child abusers now.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's bizarre that the political polarization has gone to such extremes as to pressure those align themselves with a political side to be required to adhere to all the prompted policies and ideologies associated with them. As a centrist, I detest the idea that we cannot contest a topic if it has a specific political leaning.

Perhaps they have disregarded them, but it seems all too coordinated and bitter. I agree that men have been targeted, but in reputation destruction and through mistrust. We have not had safe spaces removed or sports invaded for example.

[–]FozzieBear[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the thoughtful explanations. This is one of the reasons I visit Saidit - to see how you and others here have been influenced by the past 6 years of politics, and beyond. We obviously don't agree on much of this, and sometimes I wonder where there can be middle ground. Sadly the radicalized and polarized political discourses developed by the right wing have had a lasting impact on you and others, so that it's now much more difficult to find common ground beteen so-called left and right political interests. I've been an independent and a moderate, and veyr much against extremism on the right and left, and what I read here in your comments is a summary of many of the arguments from the right. It's a good summary, in some places. The main problem we have is that these right-wing beliefs work against the 99%, and play into the propaganda ot the 1%. Everything you note here has been in the news at Fox and other right wing propaganda outlets. I'll pick one example, "That's Biden and the Democrats who want to pack the court." Did they? Trump added numerous political hacks to federal courts and 3 hacks to the Supreme Court. It was previously illegal to pack courts with political hacks. The confirmation process for justices was supposed to put a stop to this. It's fascism in it's ideology - to for example - overturn Roe v Wade when 80 or 90% of the country NEVER wanted it. It's anti-democratic.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolute democracy is merely a different name for mob rule, and that's as tyrannical as any form of government. That's why the founding fathers were careful to place limits on democratic powers...which we've very much overstepped to our own detriment. In fact, if you care about "minorities", absolute democracy will result in tyranny of the majority and oppression of minorities. So there needs to be a lot of limitation on government power, and the will of "the people" to oppress outsiders. So even if 90% of people don't want Roe vs. Wade overturned (it's nowhere close to that high), it still needs to be overturned for the unborn infants' sakes. Likewise, if 90% of people want you put to death, they're still not allowed.

No one should be forcefully subject to any human institution. It's society's doing that I was born into this awful world, not mine, so I don't owe them anything.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry about the duplicate comments. Saidit went down for a bit and apparently was able to submit them but not respond back to me, so my browser kept showing there was an error and I retried.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You contradicted yourself a lot of times. I'll have to go through it point-by-point.

MAGA is a lie, stolen from Reagan's campaigns, meant to indicate that these two TV people - as outsiders - could return the US to it's 1950s and early 1960s past, when the benefits of the New Deal and WWII industry allowed for the one-earner family and discrimination against blacks and women. It's a slogan aimed partially at boomers who were born in that period.

No, they're trying to return the 1950s and 60s past when the federal government didn't have near-absolute power and people didn't blindly bow to its authority, and recognized the horrors of communism. They are on the side of the people back then who were not racist or sexist, but rather egalitarian. Not racist or sexist, not reverse racist or sexist, no double standards. By contrast, those demanding reverse discrimination today are following the likes of LBJ and his plot to trap minorities into the Democratic party with socialist propaganda. We had moved past racism and judgement based on skin color for decades, but the radical left had to reignite it again, later causing the right also to return to it in reaction.

It's a lie that the TV personality can drain the swamp and restore the US to a more prosperous time. It's an assumption that the Obama administration ruined the US (albeit with low debt and low unemployment and high growth in industry and big business and Wall Street values). It's a lie that corruption will end (though Trump & family & friends are most corrupt in US history).

He came close to draining the swamp, ever wonder why all the government and media despises him so much while every other corrupt and immoral politician gets a free pass? And the Obama administration expanded government when it was already too big, taking after the previous administration in many respects, and brought back racism after we had moved past that for nearly half a century.

It's entirely focused on the great white(orange) saviour, on ultranationalism, on white supremacy,

That's blatant fake news. No Trump supporter I know of considers his skin color important, nor does Trump himself. As a matter of fact the Trump supporters are actually the conservatives who didn't cave to this new wave of actual racism and sexism and *-phobia that was caused by the 2020 riots.

on the subjucation of women (abortion laws,

Oh come on, abortion has nothing to do with subjugating women and we all know that's just how leftists rewrite the issue to make themselves look like the only moral option. The real debate is over when life begins, nothing to do with women.

packing the supreme court, a big deal for Repugs),

That's Biden and the Democrats who want to pack the court, because it's the only branch they don't have control of right now.

on smaller government and increased authoritarianism

Is that an error, or do you actually think you can accuse them of two opposite things?

(and corporate deregulation and abuses), on "Christian" bigotry, on racism, on homophobia,

That wasn't a thing until the rioting of 2020 literally made them believe in those things. Before that it was found only among a few fringe lolcows who no one wanted anything to do with. Not only that, but the constant liberal slandering caused people who did believe in those things to flock to the GOP because they were falsely told it did too, and the Streisand effect encouraged it among those who were already there and formerly vehemently opposed it.

on class warfare against the 99%, on the superior 1% runing the inferiour 99%, on the notion that the 99% could pull up their bootstraps and become the 1% (never happening), on lower wages,

It's not happening because the government keeps protecting the megacorps with laws and regulations. They get funding, special treatment, and don't have to follow the same regulations as their competition, and in some cases the government even enforces a monopoly for them. I can't even think of a single big business that isn't in full support of the Democrat party. It's Mom & Pop that they're driving into the ground.

on the destruction of govermnent departments that help with education, environment, human rights, social programs,

Because none of those ever work for more than a short time, and always result in burdens of unkeepable regulations and excuses for authoritarianism.

&c, about welfare for the 1%, tax cuts, and about making the 99% pay for those loans, aboud grift, corruption, pay-to-play politics, about money laundering, about offshore accounts, about jerrymandering GOP districts, about Citizens United, about an oligarchy, about international proxy wars, about selling CIA secrets to Saudis and getting CIA operatives and translators in the middle east killed, about making billionnaires of the Kushners and Trumps and a few Russians, about manipulating people into thinking that Twittler is going to save the nation, that authoritarian leaders will look after the nation,

You're describing the Democrats again.

that one should not trust elections (unless Trump wins),

The 2020 election is the only one that was challenged, and for obvious reasons. And remember, when Trump won the left was claiming the election had been stolen then too, so have a taste of your own medicine for once.

that you should assume that everyone on the Hill is the same, that the US is the greatest country on earth (though it lags behind many other nations in poverty, healthcare, education, gun control, mass shootings, etc, etc, etc),

What the media doesn't tell you is how bad other countries actually are with those things. First of all, they rely on the United States to support it all. Second, those countries are authoritarian shitholes where the government has a monopoly on everything and gives you crappy services you can't find alternatives for. They censor you and imprison you for dissent. They tell you what you're going to do all your life. They tell you what you're allowed to believe. You have to wait forever to get all these "free" services, and they suck; but since there's no competition or responsibility when you're the government, they get away with it. And you waste 99% of your money to pay for this. The media slants the statistics to look like paradise, but doesn't tell you this part. Why do you think so many people come here from other countries to get healthcare, education, work, and freedom? If they were really that much better, you'd think it would be the other way around. But no, everyone wants to come to the US. North Korea has free EVERYTHING, but if you want to go to the doctor you have to wait forever, then get a doctor who has no idea what they're doing, and they're so poor you'll have to get your surgery wide awake. And if you dare question the system you disappear to the torture camp where you have to eat scraps of food picked out of shit because the guards are too busy beating you for "hate speech" to feed you.

that the only way to MAGA is to wear a slogan on your hat and be an asshole to 90% of the country. It would take a while to explain the MAGA fascist ideology. You can look it up. It's commonly known.

No, we're all just sick of the swamp and intolerant woke SJWism threatening to turn the US communist, much to the delight of the corrupt politicians who would be in charge of the new regime.

[–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

LOL even Bill Clinton said MAGA in his campaign, it's a pretty obvious way to appeal to less-than-radical-communist voters

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]iamonlyoneman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    orangeman means it exactly like all the others did, except he ACTUALLY means it, which is horrific for the deep state fags

    [–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    You contradicted yourself a lot of times. I'll have to go through it point-by-point.

    MAGA is a lie, stolen from Reagan's campaigns, meant to indicate that these two TV people - as outsiders - could return the US to it's 1950s and early 1960s past, when the benefits of the New Deal and WWII industry allowed for the one-earner family and discrimination against blacks and women. It's a slogan aimed partially at boomers who were born in that period.

    No, they're trying to return the 1950s and 60s past when the federal government didn't have near-absolute power and people didn't blindly bow to its authority, and recognized the horrors of communism. They are on the side of the people back then who were not racist or sexist, but rather egalitarian. Not racist or sexist, not reverse racist or sexist, no double standards. By contrast, those demanding reverse discrimination today are following the likes of LBJ and his plot to trap minorities into the Democratic party with socialist propaganda. We had moved past racism and judgement based on skin color for decades, but the radical left had to reignite it again, later causing the right also to return to it in reaction.

    It's a lie that the TV personality can drain the swamp and restore the US to a more prosperous time. It's an assumption that the Obama administration ruined the US (albeit with low debt and low unemployment and high growth in industry and big business and Wall Street values). It's a lie that corruption will end (though Trump & family & friends are most corrupt in US history).

    He came close to draining the swamp, ever wonder why all the government and media despises him so much while every other corrupt and immoral politician gets a free pass? And the Obama administration expanded government when it was already too big, taking after the previous administration in many respects, and brought back racism after we had moved past that for nearly half a century.

    It's entirely focused on the great white(orange) saviour, on ultranationalism, on white supremacy,

    That's blatant fake news. No Trump supporter I know of considers his skin color important, nor does Trump himself. As a matter of fact the Trump supporters are actually the conservatives who didn't cave to this new wave of actual racism and sexism and *-phobia that was caused by the 2020 riots.

    on the subjucation of women (abortion laws,

    Oh come on, abortion has nothing to do with subjugating women and we all know that's just how leftists rewrite the issue to make themselves look like the only moral option. The real debate is over when life begins, nothing to do with women.

    packing the supreme court, a big deal for Repugs),

    That's Biden and the Democrats who want to pack the court, because it's the only branch they don't have control of right now.

    on smaller government and increased authoritarianism

    Is that an error, or do you actually think you can accuse them of two opposite things?

    (and corporate deregulation and abuses), on "Christian" bigotry, on racism, on homophobia,

    That wasn't a thing until the rioting of 2020 literally made them believe in those things. Before that it was found only among a few fringe lolcows who no one wanted anything to do with. Not only that, but the constant liberal slandering caused people who did believe in those things to flock to the GOP because they were falsely told it did too, and the Streisand effect encouraged it among those who were already there and formerly vehemently opposed it.

    on class warfare against the 99%, on the superior 1% runing the inferiour 99%, on the notion that the 99% could pull up their bootstraps and become the 1% (never happening), on lower wages,

    It's not happening because the government keeps protecting the megacorps with laws and regulations. They get funding, special treatment, and don't have to follow the same regulations as their competition, and in some cases the government even enforces a monopoly for them. I can't even think of a single big business that isn't in full support of the Democrat party. It's Mom & Pop that they're driving into the ground.

    on the destruction of govermnent departments that help with education, environment, human rights, social programs,

    Because none of those ever work for more than a short time, and always result in burdens of unkeepable regulations and excuses for authoritarianism.

    &c, about welfare for the 1%, tax cuts, and about making the 99% pay for those loans, aboud grift, corruption, pay-to-play politics, about money laundering, about offshore accounts, about jerrymandering GOP districts, about Citizens United, about an oligarchy, about international proxy wars, about selling CIA secrets to Saudis and getting CIA operatives and translators in the middle east killed, about making billionnaires of the Kushners and Trumps and a few Russians, about manipulating people into thinking that Twittler is going to save the nation, that authoritarian leaders will look after the nation,

    You're describing the Democrats again.

    that one should not trust elections (unless Trump wins),

    The 2020 election is the only one that was challenged, and for obvious reasons. And remember, when Trump won the left was claiming the election had been stolen then too, so have a taste of your own medicine for once.

    that you should assume that everyone on the Hill is the same, that the US is the greatest country on earth (though it lags behind many other nations in poverty, healthcare, education, gun control, mass shootings, etc, etc, etc),

    What the media doesn't tell you is how bad other countries actually are with those things. First of all, they rely on the United States to support it all. Second, those countries are authoritarian shitholes where the government has a monopoly on everything and gives you crappy services you can't find alternatives for. They censor you and imprison you for dissent. They tell you what you're going to do all your life. They tell you what you're allowed to believe. You have to wait forever to get all these "free" services, and they suck; but since there's no competition or responsibility when you're the government, they get away with it. And you waste 99% of your money to pay for this. The media slants the statistics to look like paradise, but doesn't tell you this part. Why do you think so many people come here from other countries to get healthcare, education, work, and freedom? If they were really that much better, you'd think it would be the other way around. But no, everyone wants to come to the US. North Korea has free EVERYTHING, but if you want to go to the doctor you have to wait forever, then get a doctor who has no idea what they're doing, and they're so poor you'll have to get your surgery wide awake. And if you dare question the system you disappear to the torture camp where you have to eat scraps of food picked out of shit because the guards are too busy beating you for "hate speech" to feed you.

    that the only way to MAGA is to wear a slogan on your hat and be an asshole to 90% of the country. It would take a while to explain the MAGA fascist ideology. You can look it up. It's commonly known.

    No, we're all just sick of the swamp and intolerant woke SJWism threatening to turn the US communist, much to the delight of the corrupt politicians who would be in charge of the new regime.

    [–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Make America great again is merely tapping into nationalist sentiments about the good old days. But the voters it is appealing towards are largely seeing the good old days as their childhoods when they were blissfully unaware of corruption and economic hardships that plague adults. By that metric it's somewhat of an overly simplistic message but these are endemic of mass market political slogans. Change we can believe in being another prime example.

    In both cases asking simple followup questions like "how" tend to betray how deeply the adherents of such messages have thought about them.

    While anti-democracy is newspeak hogwash, populist drivel is a better descriptor of most successful political slogans.

    [–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    When white people like me get in power, you wont have to call zionist MAGA jew lovers "fascist". You also wont have the liberty to do so.

    Real fascists hate MAGA more than you do.