Where are all the conservative socialists in the West?

submitted by IamCleaver from self.politics

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[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (31 children)

The society is the source of morality

Keep saying that but someday its worst enemy Jesus will return and overthrow the power it unrightfully stole.

As members of the society, I strongly believe it is our duty to conform to its norms.

But I never joined society. I was forced into it, and so was everyone else. We were kidnapped. We are slaves.

The more a society is homogeneous the less there is room for conflict, the more stable it becomes. Don't rock the boat unless it is absolutely necessary.

If no one can be themselves, if no one can live life, what's the point of living at all? And what's the point of having a society meant to improve peoples' lives if it ends up making it worse?

You fell for the evil human agenda. Wake up, think for yourself, stop listening to society and your instincts. They don't care about you.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (30 children)

"Keep saying that but someday its worst enemy Jesus will return and overthrow the power it unrightfully stole." Or maybe Zeus. Or perhaps Vishnu...it is hard to guess. I prefer to assume non of those guys.

"But I never joined society. I was forced into it, and so was everyone else. We were kidnapped. We are slaves." What? Maybe where you live that is the case, but I personally was BORN into the society.

"If no one can be themselves, if no one can live life, what's the point of living at all?" If by your standard, being yourself is breaking the rules then you are causing more damage to others then they are causing to you (since you are one an they are many). I have no trouble living without causing discomfort to others.

"And what's the point of having a society meant to improve peoples' lives if it ends up making it worse?" The way I see it, a prosperous harmonious society is the key to improving people's lives.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (29 children)

What? Maybe where you live that is the case, but I personally was BORN into the society.

Yeah, tell me about why you chose to be born. Oh right, you didn't, nor did you choose where, from what parents, your sex, your genetics, your looks, your talents, or anything.

If by your standard, being yourself is breaking the rules then you are causing more damage to others then they are causing to you (since you are one an they are many). I have no trouble living without causing discomfort to others.

I don't cause discomfort for others. But humans are extremely petty authoritarians and have zero tolerance for any difference at all. They will attack me for not being identical to them. Even if I literally can't help it. And when I can, I'm forced to be someone I'm not.

The way I see it, a prosperous harmonious society is the key to improving people's lives.

Or it's really the key to max procreation and your instincts' agenda. A dystopian totalitarian society which is basically a prison only benefits those who run it. It may benefit "the collective" but that is an imaginary concept; it doesn't exist. A collective is merely the sum of its individuals, thus the individual is what matters. Our instincts give us a mythical idea of the collective but they are LYING to us. Nature's agenda is procreation, it doesn't care about you or how much suffering happens and lives are devastated in the process.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

"Yeah, tell me about why you chose to be born. Oh right, you didn't, nor did you choose where, from what parents, your sex, your genetics, your looks, your talents, or anything." Well, If you don't like being born than go hang yourself (don't! I am not promoting suicide, just making a point). If you were born and raised in a society then you should have automatically picked up on its traditions and norms. Respect them.

"They will attack me for not being identical to them" Unless you really stand out in a way that is unacceptable nobody cares. What is it you are doing that makes everyone so angry (a genuine non-rhetorical question, you got me intrigued)? If you are not causing anyone discomfort then nobody should attack you.

" A collective is merely the sum of its individuals, thus the individual is what matters." I don't get that leap of logic. The collective is indeed the some of its individuals. It is the mean opinion of all its members on all matters important to them. Unless you have a very divided, unhealthy society, the majority of people should share the majority of values. The minority conforms to that collective majority.

Obviously, those few who really stand out in a way that the majority sees as unacceptable, would not like this arrangement. But they are just that. The few; the minority. Seven don't wait for one. If the majority finds it offensive for men to dress like women, then nobody should dress like a women.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

If you were born and raised in a society then you should have automatically picked up on its traditions and norms.

"Should" is a very judgemental term. Not everyone is able or willing.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

"judgemental" So?

"Not everyone is able" Most are.

"or willing" if you aren't "willing" than it is YOUR problem, not mine.

I repeat my question: "What is it you are doing that makes everyone so angry"

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (17 children)

"Not everyone is able" Most are.

So fuck all non-conformists? Fuck that. And fuck conformity. Go back to Reddit and conform.

"What is it you are doing that makes everyone so angry"

Being free from conformity.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

fuck all non-conformists

Yes, fuck them. They are the ones who are deharmonising the society. Particularly if they are doing it on-purpose

"Being free from conformity." In which case those people are rightfully angry.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Fuck all intolerance
with exceptions for harming others through VOSTDaM.

Violence, Oppression, Suppression, Theft, Deception, and Manipulation

Live and let live via Natural Law.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Natural Law

That would entitle me to form a tribe and try to take you out. THAT is out natural state. Do you want that?

"Fuck all intolerance" Tolerance is weakness.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Not all of them.

Only some are deceptive and manipulative and "deharmonising the society".

On purpose or not, it needs to be exposed, and people need to be educated about it and to dealt with it.

Blanketing everyone who doesn't fit your, or anyone's, bullshit definition of what is "normal" is tyranny, without understanding that there are infiltrators, false flags, and other ways they can manipulate you into being their tools of oppression.

Don't be a stupid tool, be smart and selective.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"nfiltrators, false flags, and other ways they can manipulate you into being their tools of oppression." What?

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

If you were born and raised in a society then you should have automatically picked up on its traditions and norms. Respect them.

Why should I?

Unless you really stand out in a way that is unacceptable nobody cares.

Everything is unacceptable to humans.

The minority conforms to that collective majority.

Or they can peacefully coexist.

Obviously, those few who really stand out in a way that the majority sees as unacceptable, would not like this arrangement. But they are just that. The few; the minority. Seven don't wait for one.

You clearly have a cold heart. What meaning do you find in this?

If the majority finds it offensive for men to dress like women, then nobody should dress like a women.

Of course you bring this up. The goal of nearly every society is to let women have all the fun and have everything handed to them while the men carry all the heavy burdens and are never allowed any support or time to themselves. Fuck that, I don't deserve less for not being born a certain sex. Male biology makes our lives hard enough as it is.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

"Why should I?" Because if you don't - go live in the woods alone. If you are part of the group follow the rules.

"Or they can peacefully coexist" No they can't. If you are breaking the rules I hold dear there will be no peaceful coexistence.

"You clearly have a cold heart. What meaning do you find in this?" What do you mean what meaning? If you are in a minority on an issue, you should accept the majority's decision and adhere to it. Those who are in the minority should also accept you decision when you are the majority. Democratic centralism: we first agree on something and everyone sticks to it.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Because if you don't - go live in the woods alone. If you are part of the group follow the rules.

Oh but I can't do that either, because society owns that too. Just like reddit mods you say if you don't like it go do your own thing, then close off all the exits.

No they can't. If you are breaking the rules I hold dear there will be no peaceful coexistence.

Which should change. Why do you like tyranny?

Democratic centralism: we first agree on something and everyone sticks to it.

Or we can agree to disagree and if two parties can't manage to get along they should avoid each other. But no, humans can't stop their evil plots for world domination.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

because society owns that too

Yes you can. Nobody would care if you live in the wilderness.

"Which should change. Why do you like tyranny?"

No it shouldn't. What is tyranny to you is order to me. What is liberty to you is disorder and chaos to me.

"Or we can agree to disagree and if two parties can't manage to get along they should avoid each other. "

Sure, that is a great idea...only what if the issue is so contentious and fundamental that you cannot avoid each other? Like what if some ring of perverts decides to organise a gay parade in my city, and I would rather the city were to turn into ashes then have them desecrate its ground.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes you can. Nobody would care if you live in the wilderness.

Did you know it's illegal to live off the grid? And I'd still have to pay my taxes and worship society.

No it shouldn't. What is tyranny to you is order to me. What is liberty to you is disorder and chaos to me.

But what does order accomplish except to benefit the elites?

Sure, that is a great idea...only what if the issue is so contentious and fundamental that you cannot avoid each other? Like what if some ring of perverts decides to organise a gay parade in my city, and I would rather the city were to turn into ashes then have them desecrate its ground.

Only it's NOT your city. A city is made up of thousands of separate properties, of which you own only a tiny fraction of. What other people do with theirs you have no right to dictate. Especially for something as petty as you not liking it. I also find it interesting how you are almost exclusively obsessed with gays and "men dressing like women".

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"Did you know it's illegal to live off the grid?" What? Not where I live.

"But what does order accomplish except to benefit the elites?" Benefits everyone else who are happy to live a quite life? To me, stability and predictability is the ultimate value. Stability is the soul of prosperity. Those who rock the boat damage that stability threaten that prosperity: my prosperity.

"I also find it interesting how you are almost exclusively obsessed with gays and "men dressing like women"." This is what bothers me most in the West. Those kinds of abominations. I would also want to eradicate Abrahamic religions, but given the choice of one, I would prioritize preventing LGBT/feminism etc.

"A city is made up of thousands of separate properties" What has property to do with anything? It is a city of thousands of INDIVIDUALS you wanted to say? I agree. It is not only up to me to decide. It is up to the whole crowd. If the crowd (society) agrees on something then the few non-conformists should go fuck themselves.