Where are all the conservative socialists in the West?

submitted by IamCleaver from self.politics

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[–]IamCleaver[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (71 children)

Ok then. I am a SOCIALLY conservative socialist. I believe that the societal norms and traditions are above the wishes and freedoms of individuals. That doesn't mean that the individual is irrelevant, but one should not do what is considered socially unacceptable. You are free to express yourself as you wish as long as the society at large doesn't disapprove of it.

What do you mean by "corporations"? As in private commercial companies? I believe they should never be allowed to have any say in matters of politics and the society. Their sole function should be the generation of wealth that could then be taxed and used by the government for the good of the society. I completely agree that individuals should have more rights than corporations.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

You are free to express yourself as you wish as long as the society at large doesn't disapprove of it.

That very black and white thinking will stifle development, the arts, etc etc etc. There is wisdom in mobs, but there is also stupidity in group-think, and the tyranny of the majority can be very ugly.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I disagree. It can get out of control under certain conditions, but usually it doesn't. Humans are naturally tribalistic. We are adapted to fitting into the society we live it.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Something being natural doesn't make it a good thing

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Good like fighting nature. I prefer to embrace it.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's the red pill: the truth is awful.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The truth is the truth. It is what it is. We should accept it and act accordingly.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You accept the truth, but your refusal to admit that it's bad is a cope. Still a bluepill.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The truth is not good nor bad. It is what it is.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Here you are arguing FOR the SJWs.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Here you are arguing FOR the SJWs.

Bullshit.

I'm arguing for creativity.
New architecture, new fashion, new literature, new cinema, new music, new anything - not just the arts. New engineering, new science, new medicine, new technology, new code, new ways to communicate. New ways to do every facet of life. Without experimentation and the ability to do new things in new ways we'll never advance.

Pink hair is new. I think it sucks, but only because of the SJW ideology it symbolizes. It was neat before 2013.

Will every new thing succeed? Hell no. But it's no reason to give up - or to lose our FREEDOM to experiment and grow.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Without a strong framework about what's acceptable and what's off-limits, degenerates will turn everything to shit. Case in point: the world we live in. Only the NSDAP ever provided such a framework. Before that, the inertia of history sufficed, and after that well... being rigtheous is now an insult.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Without a strong framework about what's acceptable and what's off-limits,

Agreed.

degenerates

And counter-degenerates, and counter-counter-degenerates... Also judgementalists. These terms and systems also need fair frameworks.

It might be time to open-develop some frameworks.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Doesn't work, unless you have ethnically monolithic nations. Which... WE DON'T ANYMORE.

What do you think Christian whites, black & brown muslims, hindus, Jews, atheists, satanists and buddhists will agree on? NOTHING. They've made damned sure of that.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (57 children)

I believe that the societal norms and traditions are above the wishes and freedoms of individuals. That doesn't mean that the individual is irrelevant, but one should not do what is considered socially unacceptable. You are free to express yourself as you wish as long as the society at large doesn't disapprove of it.

Agsin, how on earth is that a good thing? That sounds like hell. Your human instincts like it but they are evil.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (56 children)

Why is that evil? We live in a society. We are its members. The society is the source of morality (because there isn't anyone else). If there is a consensus that wearing a certain element of clothing is unacceptable then don't wear it publicly. Don't make people angry on purpous. As members of the society, I strongly believe it is our duty to conform to its norms. The more a society is homogeneous the less there is room for conflict, the more stable it becomes. Don't rock the boat unless it is absolutely necessary.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (32 children)

The society is the source of morality

Keep saying that but someday its worst enemy Jesus will return and overthrow the power it unrightfully stole.

As members of the society, I strongly believe it is our duty to conform to its norms.

But I never joined society. I was forced into it, and so was everyone else. We were kidnapped. We are slaves.

The more a society is homogeneous the less there is room for conflict, the more stable it becomes. Don't rock the boat unless it is absolutely necessary.

If no one can be themselves, if no one can live life, what's the point of living at all? And what's the point of having a society meant to improve peoples' lives if it ends up making it worse?

You fell for the evil human agenda. Wake up, think for yourself, stop listening to society and your instincts. They don't care about you.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (31 children)

"Keep saying that but someday its worst enemy Jesus will return and overthrow the power it unrightfully stole." Or maybe Zeus. Or perhaps Vishnu...it is hard to guess. I prefer to assume non of those guys.

"But I never joined society. I was forced into it, and so was everyone else. We were kidnapped. We are slaves." What? Maybe where you live that is the case, but I personally was BORN into the society.

"If no one can be themselves, if no one can live life, what's the point of living at all?" If by your standard, being yourself is breaking the rules then you are causing more damage to others then they are causing to you (since you are one an they are many). I have no trouble living without causing discomfort to others.

"And what's the point of having a society meant to improve peoples' lives if it ends up making it worse?" The way I see it, a prosperous harmonious society is the key to improving people's lives.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I have no trouble living without causing discomfort to others.

SJWs have been brainwashed to think they have a right to not be offended.

They TAKE offense at everything. Even when no offense is GIVEN.

They are STEALING our culture by destroying it.

They are not the majority but they act like it.

It will be unbearable if they do grow.

Civil war looms.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (29 children)

What? Maybe where you live that is the case, but I personally was BORN into the society.

Yeah, tell me about why you chose to be born. Oh right, you didn't, nor did you choose where, from what parents, your sex, your genetics, your looks, your talents, or anything.

If by your standard, being yourself is breaking the rules then you are causing more damage to others then they are causing to you (since you are one an they are many). I have no trouble living without causing discomfort to others.

I don't cause discomfort for others. But humans are extremely petty authoritarians and have zero tolerance for any difference at all. They will attack me for not being identical to them. Even if I literally can't help it. And when I can, I'm forced to be someone I'm not.

The way I see it, a prosperous harmonious society is the key to improving people's lives.

Or it's really the key to max procreation and your instincts' agenda. A dystopian totalitarian society which is basically a prison only benefits those who run it. It may benefit "the collective" but that is an imaginary concept; it doesn't exist. A collective is merely the sum of its individuals, thus the individual is what matters. Our instincts give us a mythical idea of the collective but they are LYING to us. Nature's agenda is procreation, it doesn't care about you or how much suffering happens and lives are devastated in the process.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

"Yeah, tell me about why you chose to be born. Oh right, you didn't, nor did you choose where, from what parents, your sex, your genetics, your looks, your talents, or anything." Well, If you don't like being born than go hang yourself (don't! I am not promoting suicide, just making a point). If you were born and raised in a society then you should have automatically picked up on its traditions and norms. Respect them.

"They will attack me for not being identical to them" Unless you really stand out in a way that is unacceptable nobody cares. What is it you are doing that makes everyone so angry (a genuine non-rhetorical question, you got me intrigued)? If you are not causing anyone discomfort then nobody should attack you.

" A collective is merely the sum of its individuals, thus the individual is what matters." I don't get that leap of logic. The collective is indeed the some of its individuals. It is the mean opinion of all its members on all matters important to them. Unless you have a very divided, unhealthy society, the majority of people should share the majority of values. The minority conforms to that collective majority.

Obviously, those few who really stand out in a way that the majority sees as unacceptable, would not like this arrangement. But they are just that. The few; the minority. Seven don't wait for one. If the majority finds it offensive for men to dress like women, then nobody should dress like a women.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

If you were born and raised in a society then you should have automatically picked up on its traditions and norms.

"Should" is a very judgemental term. Not everyone is able or willing.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

"judgemental" So?

"Not everyone is able" Most are.

"or willing" if you aren't "willing" than it is YOUR problem, not mine.

I repeat my question: "What is it you are doing that makes everyone so angry"

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (17 children)

"Not everyone is able" Most are.

So fuck all non-conformists? Fuck that. And fuck conformity. Go back to Reddit and conform.

"What is it you are doing that makes everyone so angry"

Being free from conformity.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

If you were born and raised in a society then you should have automatically picked up on its traditions and norms. Respect them.

Why should I?

Unless you really stand out in a way that is unacceptable nobody cares.

Everything is unacceptable to humans.

The minority conforms to that collective majority.

Or they can peacefully coexist.

Obviously, those few who really stand out in a way that the majority sees as unacceptable, would not like this arrangement. But they are just that. The few; the minority. Seven don't wait for one.

You clearly have a cold heart. What meaning do you find in this?

If the majority finds it offensive for men to dress like women, then nobody should dress like a women.

Of course you bring this up. The goal of nearly every society is to let women have all the fun and have everything handed to them while the men carry all the heavy burdens and are never allowed any support or time to themselves. Fuck that, I don't deserve less for not being born a certain sex. Male biology makes our lives hard enough as it is.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

"Why should I?" Because if you don't - go live in the woods alone. If you are part of the group follow the rules.

"Or they can peacefully coexist" No they can't. If you are breaking the rules I hold dear there will be no peaceful coexistence.

"You clearly have a cold heart. What meaning do you find in this?" What do you mean what meaning? If you are in a minority on an issue, you should accept the majority's decision and adhere to it. Those who are in the minority should also accept you decision when you are the majority. Democratic centralism: we first agree on something and everyone sticks to it.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Because if you don't - go live in the woods alone. If you are part of the group follow the rules.

Oh but I can't do that either, because society owns that too. Just like reddit mods you say if you don't like it go do your own thing, then close off all the exits.

No they can't. If you are breaking the rules I hold dear there will be no peaceful coexistence.

Which should change. Why do you like tyranny?

Democratic centralism: we first agree on something and everyone sticks to it.

Or we can agree to disagree and if two parties can't manage to get along they should avoid each other. But no, humans can't stop their evil plots for world domination.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

Have you gotten your mandatory vaccination?

[–]IamCleaver[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

Where I live it isn't mandatory.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

I know. Lucky you. Now imagine if the mob was whipped up into a frenzy by propaganda and insisted you all take an experimental vaccination - and censored all actual science and healthy skepticism.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Yes, just imagine Russia being one of the bastions of freedom in the XXIst century!

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Yes, just imagine Russia being one of the bastions of freedom in the XXIst century!

I know, right?

Clown world, where the capitalists turn commie and the commies turn capitalist.

Now that (((they))) have taken over the world, Asia will again become the center of power.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Well, not really. There is the second Foundation. I'm not going to say any more on the topic however.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I take it you're not talking about the new Foundation TV show based on the classic novel. I was keen to see it but now it's had mixed reviews.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It reminds me of how the democrats used to be the "racist" party and republicans were the party of abe lincoln.

I think a switch might happen again soon. I just saw Rubio say:

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) will call for Republicans to break up with Big Business when he addresses the National Conservatism Conference on Monday, Axios has learned.

https://www.axios.com/first-look-rubio-urges-gop-big-business-divorce-5be74869-8b4a-4f29-a18d-9bb474157061.html

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Curiouser and curiouser.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

I wouldn't mind it that much. I would take the vaccine tomorrow if I were to get at least a hundred dollars for it. Not having access to free healthcare and having to take loans to go to university is a much bigger deal for me.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I would take the vaccine tomorrow if I were to get at least a hundred dollars for it.

Suffering for the rest of your life, if you survive, is worth that little?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I think the Sinovax is probably an actual vaccine. Maybe.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Is any vaccine legit?

They've been immune from lawsuits for some time now.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

"Suffering for the rest of your life" More like for a day or two with a slight fever. I trust my country's ministry of healthcare.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

/s/VaccineInjuries
/s/VaccineSkepticism