Where are all the conservative socialists in the West?

submitted by IamCleaver from self.politics

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[–]Canbot 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (37 children)

Socialism as a theory had conservative believers, however there has been 100 years of communist and socialist experiments proving how horrible it is in practice. The only people dumb enough to still advocate it are ignorant children brainwashed by jews, and low IQ bottom feeders who live on welfare.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (36 children)

To you I wish to loose everything dime you have so you would have to rely on welfare to survive. I hope that might teach you a lesson on why we need it. If you do get welfare, you might recover and stand up back on your feet again. Without social welfare, you would probably starve...

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

I would rather see communities keep their taxes and deal with their own problems wisely than have the mafia government force their final "solutions" on us.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

Municipalities with more freedom? I am all for it. One question though: who will help out poor communities? Who will guarantee that a rich community shares its wealth with the rest? Who will build high-speed trains and other large-scale infrastructure that benefits the whole nation? Who will maintain the military?...you get the point: we need a strong central government non the less. If I were American though, I would advocate for reducing the rights of States and increasing the rights of municipalities while keeping the central government intact.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

One question though: who will help out poor communities?

Excellent questions. It's not meant to be simply fixed.

Another question: Who will take the boot off the necks of poor communities?

Who needs such a huge obscene military? Only industrial death.

Who needs high-speed consumerism?

Who needs toxic environments?

Who needs taxes?

Tyrants.

we need a strong central government non the less.

Yes/no.

If I were American though, I would advocate for reducing the rights of States and increasing the rights of municipalities while keeping the central government intact.

Interesting idea.

How's this suit you?:

Weakest: National
Weak: State
Strongest: County & Municipal

All the strong county and municipalities would need to co-operate together at the state and then national levels. We're no longer limited to the time it takes to ride a horse to another state, so communicating and organizing with modern tech is instant. Unified cooperative regions with strength create a strong state. Unified cooperative states with strength create a strong nation.

Despite all the bullshit, most Americans have more in common with each other than with others around the world. The propaganda makes folks loose sight of this. Rather than focusing on all this divisive bullshit, we'd have to try to focus on unity for strength.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

"Tyrants." Sounds like a straw man.

"How's this suit you?:" Not really. I would want to live in a unified nation. I would prefer something like this:

Strongest: National

Weakest: State

Strong: Municipality

If I were American, I would want unify the criminal code for all states and hand the authority over it to the central government. Same for education standards. Healthcare, universities and highways should be handles by the States, but that is pretty much it.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I would want unify the criminal code for all states and hand the authority over it to the central government.

Ripe for rampant abuses.

/s/DecentralizeAllThings and collectively create universal standards to measure things so everyone everywhere can benefit from "uniformity" that way, rather than from central command.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

"Ripe for rampant abuses." How so? Most countries manage to do with a single, nation-wide legal system just fine. "...collectively..." That is what the national parliament is for.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Your blind faith in the system is unsettling.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You blind faith in the market is unsettling.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think when talking about the USA anyway, you are lacking in understanding of the mentality of the people there. Remember, they have riots at walmart on Black Friday. You don't see that anywhere else. It's a very particular place.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

I would like to hear which country you are from to have these views.

But suffice it to say that power corrupts. The people need to keep A VERY STRONG GRIP on their officials or else, totalitarianism ensues. Look at Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK, France, and soon EVERYWHERE... Tyranny.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Russia. It is a pretty common world view here. It seems to be almost absent in the West from what I have gathered.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

In my view, you can only allow a central government to be strong if the nation has a strong, nationalist leader. In most of the world, there are no leaders at all, so there can't be a strong central government because in such a case, it quickly becomes the representative of the rich and already powerful, and tyranny ensues. This is what is happening in most of the world right now.

As such, the only solution for most nations is direct democracy such as there was in Lybia before it got "liberated" by evil. In Russia you are lucky to have such a leader at this crucial moment in your national history. Hopefully he is a true nationalist and not a sellout to the subhuman parasites that ruin everything.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

a strong, nationalist leader

Is only ever a figurehead.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Genghis Khan was a figurehead huh. Damn.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Genghis Khan was a figurehead huh.

Yes he was.

Without his legions of followers, establishment systems, political landscape, and various opportunities, he would have been just a solo rampaging lunatic if he wanted to slaughter throngs of people. He didn't just decide to do that on a madman's whim though - the political climate, opportunities, and support were there and he with his trusted advisors navigated their conquests.

If you don't see than then you are just another megalomaniac idol worshiper in the cult of personality.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

"you can only allow a central government to be strong if the nation has a strong, nationalist leader." True. The system should promote strong nationalist leaders.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The only system that did was that of the NSDAP in the first half of the XXth century Germany.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Time to try again. This time, lets keep it civil.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

In the USA, the Federal government is pure evil. Moreso than most places.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

People who use unemployment temporarily to get back on thier feet do not support socialis. Social safety nets are not socialism. The problem with those is leaches always want more. We already have too many welfare programs and people take far more than thier share and squander it on frivolous shit.

A lot of people simply refuse to work, collect benefits multiple times, spend it on drugs, and despise all the "stupid" people working hard and being forced to support them.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

If a welfare program is being exploited by those who don't need it it is a badly designed welfare program. That should have been accounted for before its implementation. A good example of a safeguard would be giving out food instead of hard cash. Or giving a card that can only be used to buy particular products.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Let's fix the programs we have, then people will be more likely to accept new programs.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

What programs do you have that you don't like?

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Free cell phones and internet.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Why? Since internet is something everyone uses it should be a free service. Obviously you should put a cap on how much someone should be able to use for free a month like 30GB or so, but everyone should be able to freely access it.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Because it's not free, tax payers are paying for it. And it is a distraction not a tool they use to better themselves.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"tax payers are paying for it" Good. If they have the money to spare they should pay their taxes which could be used to help the needy.

"And it is a distraction not a tool they use to better themselves." Another conspiracy theory? You are using it right now.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's more of a problem with the American mentality of ultra materialism and extreme self-entitlement than a problem of systems.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What you write is only true in the USA. Even here in the relatively close culture of Canada, people go on unemployment, or even sometimes welfare, but FEEL A NEED TO BE A CONTRIBUTING MEMBER OF SOCIETY. You don't have that in the USA. It's all about money and self-entitlement. But that is completely unique to the USA. So your narrow view that such a system doesn't work is founded on the idea that the American way is somehow universal. It really is not.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Let's agree then that it would never work in the US.