AOC breaks down basic biology after Gov. Greg Abbott said women raped in Texas had 6 weeks to get an abortion

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[–]proc0 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

1) a future baby/human is NOT the mother's body.

2) everyone alive was once six weeks old... would you want your mother to have aborted you?

3) six weeks is more than enough when a woman knows they had unwanted sex

4) There is a moral component, people shouldn't be having sex without ANY responsibility... morality is ineherent to most laws (i.e. you don't kill or steal because it's wrong, and that's enforced)

5) I'm sure there can be exceptions for medical reasons that would go beyond six weeks, if not, I would support updating the law to allow that

6) Either human life is of value or it isn't. Abortion undermines human life and treats it like chicken eggs, or bacteria just because of TIME.

[–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

To put things into perspective, six weeks is the length of a British summer holiday. That’s a long time.

Furthermore, there are 20 forms of contraceptives available if a couple wants to have sex but doesn’t want to have a baby. Condoms, birth control pills, morning after pills, the time of the month when the woman’s eggs are infertile…

[–]goonmessiah 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, to all of this.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Thanks - though we partially disagree on some issues:

1) a future baby/human is NOT the mother's body.

Human cognitive characteristics appear in 12 weeks, before which I would agree should be enough time for Planned Parenthood to help, if you can locate the only Planned Parenthood in your state.

2) everyone alive was once six weeks old... would you want your mother to have aborted you?

An oversimplification. Everyone alive was once a zygote. Yes, I would have wanted my mother to decide on giving birth to me within the first 12 months.

3) six weeks is more than enough when a woman knows they had unwanted sex

No - because women may not have a positive test until two or more weeks thereafter. And some of them who were drugged may not have known they were raped.

4) There is a moral component, people shouldn't be having sex without ANY responsibility... morality is ineherent to most laws (i.e. you don't kill or steal because it's wrong, and that's enforced)

Of course, but applying a 6-week rule to everyone and closing the Planned Parenthood centers creates additional problems for women, and especially for women who were raped, or don't understand sex because it was not discussed at Church, or whatever. Let women determine what's best for them, not the Texas governor or a morally corrupt Supreme Court. There is a moral component here that the Texas law literally abuses women.

5) I'm sure there can be exceptions for medical reasons that would go beyond six weeks, if not, I would support updating the law to allow that

Yes, though I doubt the Church would be happy with it.

6) Either human life is of value or it isn't. Abortion undermines human life and treats it like chicken eggs, or bacteria just because of TIME.

The life of the mother is also important, and the 1st trimester limit for abortions had a lot of support in the US, because that's when cognitive functions begin to develop.

[–]proc0 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Human cognitive characteristics appear in 12 weeks, before which I would agree should be enough time for Planned Parenthood to help, if you can locate the only Planned Parenthood in your state.

I think the passage of time alone does not create a human. I'm not sure how many weeks exactly is appropriate for the law, but I believe the idea is to promote responsibility, with some window of time for rape cases, and as I mentioned perhaps exceptions for medical anomalies.

An oversimplification. Everyone alive was once a zygote. Yes, I would have wanted my mother to decide on giving birth to me within the first 12 months.

My point is that people who didn't get aborted, are now trying to dictate when it's ok for a potential somebody to be alive. It's kicking the ladder (of life) behind you, so to speak. We made it and now we're dictating what life is? Seems unfair in my opinion.

Of course, but applying a 6-week rule to everyone and closing the Planned Parenthood centers creates additional problems for women, and especially for women who were raped, or don't understand sex because it was not discussed at Church, or whatever.

I'm not sure about the closing of Planned Parenthood... that seems like a different issue, even though it's related. I won't comment on that now. Women who need extra resources of education on the matter could be helped in different ways. I'm not sure why hospitals and local clinics are not doing Planned Parenthood's job, or why we need this separate institution for this.

Let women determine what's best for them, not the Texas governor or a morally corrupt Supreme Court. There is a moral component here that the Texas law literally abuses women.

The life of the mother is also important, and the 1st trimester limit for abortions had a lot of support in the US, because that's when cognitive functions begin to develop.

What we have here is women determining what is best for a future human being, not just their own health. It's the mother's health for 9 months vs. the full life of a human being, medical anomalies and exceptions aside.

The choice of women is really at the time of having sex. Especially now after the "metoo" movement, where most men have to be very careful about consent. Women have more control than ever, so there's no reason to be irresponsible with sexual encounters anymore.

I'll say this, since this would need to get enforced, I think maybe men should also be held accountable and punished. Responsibility should not only fall on women. I just don't know what exactly that would mean or how it would be enforced, but having sex with no responsibility creates an immoral society... sex is like fire, or drugs, or anything dangerous, it's just not obvious on the surface level, and that's for another thread.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I believe the idea is to promote responsibility

Yes - which Planned Parenthood does, among other help groups. Girls need to learn how to avoid pregnancy &c. Criminalizing abortion between weeks 7 and 12 is a police state tactic, not a promotion of responsibility.

It's kicking the ladder (of life) behind you, so to speak

Yes - which is why abortion laws address the problem of when life really begins. The Church argues that it begins at conception. Others have said that it begins with the initial processes of cognitive development (12 - 24 weeks), and religious legislators in Texas have criminalized abortion after the moment of a beating heart, around 6 weeks.

I'm not sure why hospitals and local clinics are not doing Planned Parenthood's job, or why we need this separate institution

Agreed

What we have here is women determining what is best for a future human being, not just their own health. It's the mother's health for 9 months vs. the full life of a human being, medical anomalies and exceptions aside.

Yes

The choice of women is really at the time of having sex.

Women sometimes don't have this choice, or don't understand what's happening, or tried the wrong birth control method, or whatever. They cannot be kept in burqas and shut inside all day, in find other ways to avoid men. Indeed pregnancies increase among girls who don't understand sex.

no reason to be irresponsible with sexual encounters anymore.

Depends on where girls are learning about sex

men should also be held accountable and punished.

Sounds good - but one could argue that men are many times more irresponsible about their roles in sex, and criminalizing their activities - while fair - could create many other problems, especially related to misogyny and other forms of hostility that are growing in polularity among boys & men. Long gone is the "new age sensitive man". Boys concepts of sex are now widely influenced by pornography, much of it about dominance. 40 years ago, most kids saw porn in the form of a few copies Playboy in someone's dad's attic, and had to learn the rest in person.

having sex with no responsibility creates an immoral society

Agreed - and this is perhaps for another thread - but there is a long ethical debate about - essentially - "one's right is another's responsibility", which normally addresses civic responsibility, rather than sex, love &c. (Alasdair MacIntyre and Charles Taylor have written at length about it.) But more generally, most people (of 7.6 billion, and historically) who become pregnant or cause pregnancies aren't - in my view - thinking responsibility until afterward, at best.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

There are free Women Centers run by Christians all over the US. They do free consultations and ultrasounds. The only downside is that they will talk about the love and sacrifice of Jesus every ten minutes. But it is all free, and they are usually given good reviews.

[–]Rob3122 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (29 children)

AOC is just another jew puppet.

[–]Airbus320 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Just like socks

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (27 children)

Really mature of you (and no evidence).

[–]Rob3122 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (26 children)

Evidence? Damn near everything she's about is straight out of the jew playbook for how to destroy a white (or what used to be) country.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

(That's not evidence.)

[–]Rob3122 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (24 children)

She supports the removal of historical monuments, she supports immigration, she supports blackliesmatter, she supports fags in dresses, etc. Though I don't think the evidence will make a difference for you.

[–]Yin 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

immigration

Illegal aliens/trespassers, open borders, and white genocide with UN "Replacement Migration" is what AOC supports to be exact. Globalist propaganda veils that with the word "immigration".

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

No, this is what Republican disinformation is trying to make you believe.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sad

[–]Yin 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Your statement is globalist disinformation.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Is it all really that complicated and conspiratorial in AOC's case? No. Everything she's done has been to address the concerns of the 99% and to challenge the 1%. If you read the legislation she's backed, you'd see that. All of the jargon you reference here would have to be founded on acomplicated international conspiracy that favors the 1%, whereas AOC's actions are against the 1%. So all of these theories do not apply to her.

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    What she might support (Republicans also support immigration, some of them support BLM, and some of them are fags in dresses and support them) is still unrelated to your comment that she is a "jew puppet". This is the comment we refer to. Are you able to make an argument or note evidence about this? No worries, if not. My view is that - of all her colleagues - she's the least supportive of Israel's and Zionists' abuses at home and abroad.

    [–]Rob3122 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

    I knew you'd turn it into a left vs right thing like the brainwashed individual you are. Like I said in my previous post I didn't think evidence would matter to someone like you.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

    Account for 27 days? For what? To repeatedly drag down the discussions? Follow the Saidit guidelines.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    You will shove your head in the sand and call it a discussion.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    How are you, Earendil? Repeatedly dragging down the discussion again? This is the 6th or 7th note I've received from you in the past couple of hours. You would only know of my comments if you were studying my comment history. Yesterday you did this as well, with numerous responses to posts you could only see in my comment history. You really should have something better to do. Really. It's sad. There is so much more on Saidit than my occasional comment. Have a look. It'll be a whole new world. A new fantastic point of view. No one to tell you, "No", or where to go, or say you're only dreaming....

    [–]Rob3122 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    Yawn

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Aw, man, now you hurt my feelings.

    [–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

    There are many different forms of contraction available. You’d have to be extremely careless to get pregnant by accident.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    You’d have to be extremely careless to get pregnant by accident.

    Yes and no.

    Many people haven't, or won't, or wouldn't, or couldn't keep from getting pregnant, because they didn't understant the situation, were raped but didn't think they were pregnant, didn't know much about sex, assumed that the pill or other contraception was sufficient, thought a vasectomy was sufficient, thought pregnancy could be prevented if the women did not orgasm (yes this argument has been used by Republicans), and for numerous other reasons. The Pill and Roe v Wade were the most revolutionary developments for women in the 20th century, even when one considers voting rights.

    [–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

    I support abortion in case of rape. And other limited cases. But it should not be used as a form of contraception. If a woman knows her cycle she can have sex during periods where her eggs cannot get fertilised. It’s easy to get condoms in western countries, which I’m in favour of. The morning after pill is still there you just have to remember to take it. And I do support sex education in secondary schools. I support any and all forms of contraception, just not abortion, unless it’s for rape, maternal life or foetal impairment.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Same with me, with the exception that the necessary arrangements are made within the first 12 weeks, the earlier the better. I seriously doubt that abortion would be used as a form of repeated contraception, though if that is the case, perhaps there should be a law to address that form of extreme abuse. Women I've known who've had abortions had one while quite young, and didn't want to talk with anyone about it, as they felt so badly about it. No one wants to go through that. But if they do want multiple abortions, they have mental problems and need to get help in a psychiatric facility.

    [–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    As long as abortions are legal on demand (and 10 weeks should be the cutoff), it could be legally required that women seeking abortions should watch videos demonstrating how abortions are performed.

    I also support laws requiring more coherent sex education in biology classes in secondary schools, adoption law reform as well as community initiatives so that women with unplanned pregnancies and men who accidentally impregnated women can get more support from the community. That way the rate of abortion goes down.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Agreed

    [–]goonmessiah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I am actually acquainted with a few women that use or have used it as birth control. One finally got sterilized, I stopped associated with the other two.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Almost like mass murder. Psychiatric help (the type without drugs, hopefully) should be free in the US for everyone, or even required by law for these "ladies".

    [–]IkeConn 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

    You can bet your ass Texas Republicans won't raise a finger to help single mothers. They just want to force them to give birth.

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

    This is BS. White Christians adopt the most out of any other demographic.

    [–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    I’m not surprised. White Christians love big families. And that’s a good thing.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    There may be many reasons why white christians do what they do, but it has a positive net effect most of the times. I still have problems with them and their religion, but to deny the facts...

    People like socks and actuallynot will make jokes about Christians and conservatives because the worst of these groups really don't give a shit, and they tend to be really loud. The best Christians give lots of shits, and they tend to be really heartfelt in their attempts to help. That doesn't mean they always do a great job, but it is better than the average modern consumer who accepts non-medical abortion done for recreational reasons, like the lack of money, free time, or interest in responsibility. I don't think we need religion to have morality, ya know?

    [–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    We don’t need religion per se to have a good sense of morality, but it does help. In the absence of religion, living in a healthy, strong, tightly-knit community can also influence positive morality.

    [–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

    A lot of Christian Protestants and gay couples are constantly looking for orphans to adopt. So I doubt an abortion ban is going to be an issue for adoptions, at least not in a western country like America.

    [–]IkeConn 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

    So it's basically a baby grab for WASPs and LGBTQ couples.

    [–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    Mostly, yes. Other demographics adopt as well, to a lesser extent.

    [–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    That's so cracked even Doctor Johnny Fever gets it.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Indeed. George Carlin:

    Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Who adopts the most? White Christians.

    [–]blah-blah-blah-blah 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

    Please don't link to YAHOO news.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Normally I wouldn't, but in this case, it's merely a summary of comments that are at issue, not journalism or analysis, both of which aren't Yahoo's cup of tea.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    TL:DR

    "Two weeks late for your period for any person, any person with a menstrual cycle, can happen if you're stressed, if your diet changes, or for really no reason at all. So, you don't have six weeks."

    Planned Parenthood has said 85% to 90% of Texans who obtain abortions are at least six weeks into pregnancy.