This is an actual tweet from Joe Biden

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[–]blowininthewind 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

i mean this is correct in a sense from a classic liberal standpoint (john stuart mill) that the individual ought to be free to do as they wished unless they caused harm to others.

[–]One_Jack_MoveLibertarian Party 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

I hope you aren't suggesting that not getting the vax is "causing harm to others". That line is Bullshit. Way more harm has come to others from world leaders/governments locking us all down for a year. The damage from their overreaction will go one for decades! For what could have been pretty much done with in a year if we just isolated the at-risk until the vax was ready and then let people decide what the best choice is for their own personal risk-reward of getting the vax. That is a Libertarian (classic liberal?) point of view, IMO.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Way more harm has come to others from world leaders/governments locking us all down for a year

It's hard not to notice that many of the cars on the road are newer now than they've ever been in my lifetime. We got one too. We have more money these days. Our investments are doing fantastic generally.

It's the first time a lot of people aren't living paycheck to paycheck anymore. I know it wasn't good for everyone, and there's of course the fear printing all this money is going to lead to rampant inflation, or the markets will crash. And they might.

But overall this went way better than I had imagined a year ago.

[–]slushpilot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yes, very true. I'm actually kind of worried now after seeing how relatively well it's gone.

The fact that there weren't more major disruptions over the last year just tells us how detached from physical reality some things actually are. The stock market are way up after what should have been periods of lockdown & contraction for several industries. Housing prices are way up.

Either the economy is way more resilient than we imagined, which would means the whole industry of financial theorizing, analysis and punditry were complete bullshit and we don't understand economics at all... or things are desperately propped up in places and overinflated, just waiting for a slight breeze to bring it crashing back down. So which one is the real Potemkin village?

Makes me wonder about things like the gas shortages: an isolated incident, or a sign of more to come?

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The economy is a ponzi scheme. The economic information is not real. All markets are more distorted than ever. They are luring us in to our demise. We are funding them. You are funding them.

This is like gambling at a casino. The house always wins. You are playing against the house.

[–]AcceleratedWallops 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The "stock market" consists mostly of large companies. Like the S&P: an index of the 500 largest companies.

Who does well when small business are failing?

Big businesses.

[–]slushpilot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ok, so there's another tragic realization to add to the list, if true: small businesses add nothing of value, and we wouldn't really miss them if they were gone... we would do just fine with supply chains & distribution managed by megacorps like Amazon & Walmart.

[–]AcceleratedWallops 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The goal of our feudal overlords is to turn us into WALL-E.

[–]One_Jack_MoveLibertarian Party 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Tell that to the best man in my wedding that committed suicide 7 months ago.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's sad.

But overall death by suicide was down about 7% last year.

There's are fewer such people than there would have been.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

My condolences for your loss but that's going to be a little difficult.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

If you accept that harm to others includes sickness and death, then it's not bullshit.

The way to safely lift the lockdown is to be vaccinated. Or have everyone follow the lockdown rules for a few weeks.

In the meantime there literally no harm and C summer good from watching a mask. Most magahats are better looking with a mask on.

How the fuck do you get so manipulated by the Russian social media attacks on the US that you think wearing a mask is a beach of civil rights?

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

The way to safely lift the lockdown is to be vaccinated. Or have everyone follow the lockdown rules for a few weeks.

Acually the reverse is true. It is safer to let this government created virus naturally infect the population until herd immunity is reached if a survival rate of ~100% can be acheived. Which it can.

Its debateable whether the elderly or other sick people are better off with a vaccination or chemoprophylaxis. I think chomoprophylaxis is probably safter but the vaccine may be more convenient.

The vaccine has no benefit for young healthy people when weighed against the risk. Dozens of young people are dying daily from this vax because it is creating a cardiovascular illness in them that is only associated with severe covid, which they would otherwise never have developed.

Thousands more a day, literally millions, will develop permanent auto-immune disease.

Immune reactions are the cause of autoimmune syndrome. All immune reactions are potential triggers of autoimmunity, and this vaccine is designed to provoke the strongest immune reaction possible. Immune reactions do not always go the way they are supposed to. They sometimes cause disease and death. Every person with RA or lupus or MS is someone who had an immune reaction that went wrong. Do you understand that?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Getting infected also causes an immune reaction.

The vaccine is better, because it isn't infectious, and doesn't damage your organs.

[–]RightousBob 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Been on saidit for a week and literally everyone of your comments is a mainstream media/big pharma/CIA-DNC talking point. It's almost as if you are being paid to push an agenda. Either that or you are batshit crazy.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Do I correctly understand your claim?

You're saying that the fact that getting infected with a disease causes an immune reaction is batshit crazy or an agenda.

And this agenda is one of this mainstream media/big pharma/CIA-DNC coalition?

Is that right?

Because getting infected does cause an immune reaction. It's kind of the immune system's raison d'etre.

[–]RightousBob 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Another gpt3 bot. Ay mate?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're dreaming, mate. No AI has passed the Turing test yet. https://dataconomy.com/2021/03/which-ai-closest-passing-turing-test/

Is your position that the fact that "getting infected with a disease causes an immune reaction" is batshit crazy or an agenda?

If you don't stand by your position, that's fine. And I understand why you might want to change the subject rather than have to defend a position that isn't fundamentally reasonable. But if you do believe that there's something blatantly impossible about the immune system reacting to an infection, maybe you're interested in clarifying that a bit.

Because on the face of it the claim looks pretty stupid.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Getting infected also causes an immune reaction.

I agree, however when young healthy people get this infection it is generally limited to their respiratory and GI tracts and the natural immune response is less severe. Antibody titers are lower with the milder infections as are basically all inflamation markers. That is because the innate immune response does the heavy lifting in younger people making it unnecessary for the body to produce a strong adaptive response. That reduces the risks of all kinds of immune complications.

Natural response is safer and better for children and young adults with no severe underlying issues. Far safer.

and doesn't damage your organs.

Demonstrably false. Your cardiovascular tissue is an organ. Your blood vessel cell linings absorb the vaccine and subsequently present the spike protein. Such as the capillaries in your brain where a great deal of inflamation takes place. That is where the immune response occurs rather than your nose which is where it would otherwise take place. Your platelets are being destroyed in the immune reaction increasing the chances of both hemmorhage and clotting.

All these vaccine headaches? They are caused by cerebral venous sinus thrombosis. Basically mini strokes. More frequent in women because estrogen promotes clotting.

Autoimmune syndrome causes organ damage. Thats why it sucks. Lupus, RA, MS, they all cause organ damage. You can get all that shit from vaccines. These vaccines are designed to produce the strongest immune response possible. They are designed to produce a strong response in elderly people with shitty immunity. What are they going to do in a 20 year old?

Younger people are far better off just getting the disease than assualting their cardiovascular system and risking anaphylaxis. Have you seen this “Moderna arm” reaction on people’s injection arm? That is a mast cell response that is happening internally as well in places like the endothelials that line your blood vessels. That is occuring in at least 1% according to moderna’s own data.

There is no argument for young people under 40 getting this jab. Maybe it makes sense for elderly people. Maybe. Everyone else ( people under 60 or so) will do well if given antivirals early.

Prophylactic low dose antivirals are SAFER than the vaccine and the only issue is compliance. Prophylactic HCQ has been used safely on a billion people over 50 years. Ivermectin has never killed a person in 50 years.

Trust oligarchs, peasant. Trust government and big pharma. Who’s liable if you are harmed? Just you? Sounds like a great deal.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Natural response is safer and better for children and young adults with no severe underlying issues. Far safer.

Certainly not for the mRNA vaccines.

Young adults age 18 to 34 years hospitalized with COVID-19 experienced substantial rates of adverse outcomes: 21% required intensive care, 10% required mechanical ventilation, and 2.7% died. Clinical Outcomes in Young US Adults Hospitalized With COVID-19, Cunningham et. al. JAMA (2020)

The proportions of participants who reported at least 1 serious adverse event were 0.4% in the vaccine group and 0.2% in the placebo group. No serious adverse events were considered by FDA as possibly related to vaccine. - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html#18-serious-adverse-events

Have you seen this “Moderna arm” reaction on people’s injection arm? That is a mast cell response that is happening internally as well in places like the endothelials that line your blood vessels.

Okay. You might need to point me to the research showing inflammation of the endothelials in people with CoVID arm.

Pointing out that getting CoVID will also give you endothelial dysfunction: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7554490/

Prophylactic low dose antivirals are SAFER than the vaccine and the only issue is compliance. Prophylactic HCQ has been used safely on a billion people over 50 years.

The issue there is that it is ineffective.

We found no evidence of a difference in COVID-19 mortality among people who received hydroxychloroquine for treatment of rheumatological disease before the COVID-19 outbreak in England. - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(20)30378-7/fulltext

Ivermectin has never killed a person in 50 years.

Again, what is missing is evidence of effectiveness: https://theconversation.com/ivermectin-why-a-potential-covid-treatment-isnt-recommended-for-use-157904 https://theconversation.com/ivermectin-why-a-potential-covid-treatment-isnt-recommended-for-use-157904

Trust government and big pharma.

Your post is literally shilling for ongoing doses of HCQ or Ivermectin, for literally everyone for literally ever. Rather than 2 shots of a vaccine.

Do you really claim big pharma would prefer the vaccine?

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Young adults age 18 to 34 years hospitalized with COVID-19 Young adults who are hospitalized with covid have underlying conditions. Healthy kids do not get severe covid. They will have the most severe reactions to the vaccine. There is no upside to the vaccine if you are under 40 unless you have a serious physical disabiltiy.

The proportions of participants who reported at least 1 serious adverse event were 0.4% in the vaccine group and 0.2% in the placebo group. No serious adverse events were considered by FDA as possibly related to vaccine.

Right on the table it shows multiple side effect categories where subjects had severe side effects higher than 0.4%!

18- 55 years: severe redness 0.5%, severe fatigue 4.6%, severe headache 3.2% (the headaches are brainclots!), severe chills 2.1%, severe muscle pain 2.2%, severe joint pain 1.0%

Those are just the younger adults. I wonder how they calculated that number. Even if you add in the other age groups multiple categories are going to be well over 0.4%. They mostly look to be statistically significant against the control.

No serious adverse events were considered by FDA as possibly related to vaccine.

I wonder how they can get away with this statement! It is bewildering.

Okay. You might need to point me to the research showing inflammation of the endothelials in people with CoVID arm.

“Our suspicion of delayed-type or T-cell–mediated hypersensitivity was supported by skin-biopsy specimens obtained from a patient with a delayed large local reaction who was not among the 12 patients described here. Those specimens showed superficial perivascular and perifollicular lymphocytic infiltrates with rare eosinophils and scattered mast cells “ https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2102131

Just search moderna arm. It happens on about day 8 after the vax. They have no idea why. Just moderna.

I am going to adress the ivermectin and hcq points in a little bit. Hopefully before bed.

Edit:

I looked at that HCQ prophylaxis study. Heres the thing. It looks at NHS data on RA and Lupus patients some of whom are on HCQ maintenance. (We don’t know how much)

There are 30,569 patients that filled HCQ scripts in the 6 months prior to the study date. There were 70 deaths. So they are comparing the death rate to the non-HCQ group.

What level of confidence can you have that the 70 who died were people that were not non-compliant? These were people that were not interviewed. Among the non-HCQ group you can assume that a high proportion were taking corticosteroids. Corticosteroids are going to reduce your mortality from covid for sure. How much? Who knows. But we dont know how many people became symptomatic or tested positive.

There are multiple studies of ivermectin and HCQ used as pre exp. prophylaxis. Almost all show benefit similar to vaccines. HCQ prophylaxis doses were mostly tested at 400mg a week because that is what they use for malaria. I suspect a more reasonable dose for high effectivenes will be about 600 or 800 mg a week. Still a very low dose that could be taken for decades.

https://c19hcq.com/#prep

https://c19ivermectin.com/#prep

Your post is literally shilling for ongoing doses of HCQ or Ivermectin, for literally everyone for literally ever. Rather than 2 shots of a vaccine.

Because they will save someone’s life. They are safer. You literally only have to take one or two pills a week. It is cheap. The science is with me.

Even aside from the blood clot issue and the potential for developing an autoimmune disease and the anaphylaxis ......

They still haven’t solved the ADE issue. Ive read several researchers who say that a future variant is likely to cause ADE — an infection of increased severity because you have antibodies. At least in some people. The people that will get the sickest from an ADE response will be young people, the very people least likely to benefit from the vaccine otherwise. The only way to mitigate the ADE effect if you are young is to continue getting boosters every year or so.

[–]slushpilot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The way to safely lift the lockdown is to be vaccinated. Or have everyone follow the lockdown rules for a few weeks.

Which one was Florida doing this whole time? Or Texas?

They fared no worse relative to other states, and I believe that tells us there are details about the transmission of this virus that have been badly misunderstood over the last year. We might've latched on to bad recommendations because of this. But, even if governments knew that masks only made a minimal difference right from the start, they would probably still tell everyone to wear them as a panacea, to make the populace feel like we are in control, and "doing our part" to help. It's well-meaning and understandable.

Officials always get obsessed about technical definitions so they can look up the correct protocols to recommend from their manual. They are unthinking bureaucrats. Like remember last February/March when they were hesitant to call it a "pandemic" and were quibbling about the precise definition of the term? I think the same is true about questions like whether this virus should now be reclassified as "airborne" which was also widely denied as they pushed for the "droplets" explanation, and then "aerosols" for so long instead.

Droplets & aerosols would justify the 2m rule and masking. But distance wouldn't actually help for an airborne virus, and neither would masks. I predict that "lockdowns" in apartment buildings with shared HVAC systems didn't help us much either. It's possible that other recommendations focusing on dilution would've had better results instead: improve ventilation, open windows, gather outside, etc. Assuming they're willing to admit it's been airborne this whole time of course.

How the fuck do you get so manipulated

Sure, some people are easily manipulated and don't think for themselves. But it's possible to disagree for well-founded reasons and contradictory evidence too. It shouldn't be a tribal team-mask vs. team no-mask argument assuming everyone is stupid. Are you manipulated to "trust the science", or have you looked into it? If you did, would you allow yourself to raise questions and have a solid discussion about it?

I'm not "anti-mask" by the way. There's much more interesting depth to the issue that's worth actually discussing.

[–]blowininthewind 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

well you need herd immunity. so it's not bullshit.

edit: you can find that line i wrote in this wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill which links to many places. yeah it is a liberal view.