Teacher Suspended After Saying George Floyd Would be Alive If He Complied

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[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (16 children)

There was a court case about that.

The findings were that he didn't have enough fentanyl to kill him, and that the cause of death was murder by neck compression causing asphyxia and cardiopulmonary arrest.

The jury saw a lot of evidence about that and were unanimous.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Sometimes its hard to accept scientific evidence when it does not tell us what we want. But GF’s fentanyl levels were well within fatal range and he arrested because the meth levels drop first in a speed ball, leaving only the depressant effect of the opiate.

The coronor’s report specified no physical signs of choking or strangulation. None. Neck compression with a knee that cuts off an airway has tell-tale signs. That is science. It is sad that he killed himself but criminal blacks have to be arrested and should not be let out to roam the streets committing crime after crime as this man was.

The cop took reasonable actions to subdue a violent person 2x his size who was resisting arrest. Melanin is not an excuse for psychopathic behavior.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

But GF’s fentanyl levels were well within fatal range and he arrested because the meth levels drop first in a speed ball,

It was 50% lower than the levels found in the average overdose.

And the video showed someone going through the physical symptoms of suffocation, not overdose.

The coronor’s report specified no physical signs of choking or strangulation. None. Neck compression with a knee that cuts off an airway has tell-tale signs.

Nope.

By Monday, June 1, in the context of widespread political pressure, the public received two reports: the preliminary autopsy report commissioned by Floyd’s family by private doctors, and—shortly thereafter—a summary of the preliminary autopsy from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office. Both reports stated that the cause of Floyd’s death was homicide: death at the hands of another. - Scientific American blogs

The district attorney's charging documents in the case stated, "The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," but that was written prior to receiving the coroner's report. That was widely misinterpreted by the media.

Neck compression with a knee that cuts off an airway has tell-tale signs. That is science.

Not always: Asphyxia—suffocation—does not always demonstrate physical signs, as other physician groups have noted. - Same Scientific American blog

The cop took reasonable actions to subdue a violent person 2x his size who was resisting arrest

The jury heard evidence about that and found that the ex-cop took unreasonable actions. Which is crucial to the second-degree murder charge. They were unanimous about that.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

By Monday, June 1, in the context of widespread political pressure, the public received two reports: the preliminary autopsy report commissioned by Floyd’s family by private doctors, and—shortly thereafter—a summary of the preliminary autopsy from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office. Both reports stated that the cause of Floyd’s death was homicide: death at the hands of another.

This is not true. The Baden report was made by a coroner that never saw the body- he is a medical celebrity and a hired gun for lawyers.

The autopsy says nothing about evidence of homocide. Show me where the medical examiner finds evidence of injury from intentional or negligent force. This is the report.

https://interactive.kare11.com/pdfs/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf

No life-threatening injuries identified No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries Incision and subcutaneous dissection of posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks, and buttocks negative for occult trauma

NECK: Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature. The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact. The larynx is lined by intact mucosa. The thyroid is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change. The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries. The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.

Please read this document. There is no remark anywhere in it of any finding consistent with trauma leading to death.

The district attorney's charging documents in the case stated, "The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," but that was written prior to receiving the coroner's report. That was widely misinterpreted by the media.

This sounds like shenanigans. Was there a second report they made the coroner file? Lemme guess, a few days after this one is filed and they give this poor coroner a talking to and say that in spite of total lack of evidence, he’ll have to change his story or an antifa terrorist cell will be at his house.

Im going to stick with the actual autopsy report. Actually if you do know of another secondary report filed by the examiner I am interested in reading it.

Not always: Asphyxia—suffocation—does not always demonstrate physical signs, as other physician groups have noted.

Fake. Petichiae and other physical markers are consider evidence. Trying to establish that there may be some freak occurance in which there are no physical manifestations of asphyxia reeks of politicization and certainly does not meet the rubric of “beyond a reasonably doubt”

SciAm is not a serious scientific magazine. I subscribed to it for many years when it was run by actual scientists but the oligarch that bought it destroyed it’s reputation. I wouldnt line the bird cage with it, it is a pseudo-science pop culture rag. It is better to link directly to sources that aren’t MSM hottakes.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Show me where the medical examiner finds evidence of injury from intentional or negligent force.

In the case title: "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION"

The TL/DR is in the death certificate that the same doctor filed:

Note in particular, cause of death: CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION

Manner: Homicide.

Please read this document. There is no remark anywhere in it of any finding consistent with trauma leading to death.

That's because is was restraint and neck compression that lead to death, not trauma.

Fake. Petichiae and other physical markers are consider evidence. Trying to establish that there may be some freak occurance in which there are no physical manifestations of asphyxia reeks of politicization and certainly does not meet the rubric of “beyond a reasonably doubt”

Okay. Just pointing out what medical experts are saying. And I note that the jury would have heard a lot of that kind of evidence before reaching their unanimous conclusion that it was beyond a reasonable doubt that George was killed by Chauvin.

SciAm is not a serious scientific magazine.

They're a lot more serious and scientific than most, barring academic journals. And the author is a doctor.

But they've released some of the analysis from the trial too:

Some of it's pretty compelling.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HGijfVyfIw

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

That's because is was restraint and neck compression that lead to death, not trauma.

It doesn’t say anywhere that there was any evidence of neck compression anywhere in the autopsy. Thats not a finding. Thats the potential cause of death he is meant to investigate. It doesn’t establish anything.

It doesnt say restraint and neck compression lead to death. It says there’s a lack of evidence of any life threatening injuries. A lack of injuries to the neck. And 98% oxygenation. Plus a lethal concentration of fentanyl.

I think you just dont want to admit that all the evidence is pointing to GF dying of fentanyl while he was appropriately pinned to the ground by a much smaller cop while resisting arrest.

Sciam is scraping the bottom of the sci barrel. Its a sci turd. Strictly for the “I fucking love science” liberal arts major crowd. There is literally no worse science publication. What a shame they did to that magazine. They used to print their physics articles with the calculus included. Academic journals are going down hill for the same sort of reasons but you are far more likely to get unvarnished science there without the politics

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It doesnt say restraint and neck compression lead to death. It says there’s a lack of evidence of any life threatening injuries. A lack of injuries to the neck. And 98% oxygenation. Plus a lethal concentration of fentanyl.

You're misinterpreting the report. He's quite clear about it when he gives testimony. The cause of death was "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION" and the manner was homicide.

He's also clear that the fentanyl and heart condition contributed to but were not the main cause of death

Sciam is scraping the bottom of the sci barrel. Its a sci turd. Strictly for the “I fucking love science” liberal arts major crowd. There is literally no worse science publication.

Do you have a problem with all the publications under the control of Nature Publishing Group?

If you don't like the opinion of the three medical professionals who wrote the blog, I would be more swayed by a refutation of those opinions than by claiming that you have issues with the URL that hosts it.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The coronor admited that he had to revise his analysis. They leaned on him. He was quite clear in the initial coronors report.

How do you explain 98% oxygenation? How do explain no evidence of choking or strangulation. Like no petichial hemmoraging? And he just happen to have potentially lethal amounts of speed ball cocktail.

Maybe youve heard of reasonable doubt. I could drive a truck through this case. This is just the new “crucible” . Its a which hunt for “racists”under every bed. GF was pinned to control him after he resisted arrest for 10 minutes. And then he died on the pavement from a speed ball. And seriously good riddance, he went around shoving guns in to pregnant woman’s stomachs and threatening to shoot their babies. GF was a bad dude and a heroin addict who killed himself accidently while commiting 3 simulaneous crimes.

Yeah I do have a problem with Nature. I think they are controlled by some shadey oligarchs. Medical/scientific journal industry is a corrupt oligarchy. But I have a particular problem with Sci Am, the last two editors are absolute turds. Sci Am is so spectaculary anti-science now its not even funny. I subbed to it for 20+ years. I watched it go down hill.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The coronor admited that he had to revise his analysis. They leaned on him. He was quite clear in the initial coronors report.

Well it is titled "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION", same as the death certificate. So I agree that it's quite clear.

How do you explain 98% oxygenation?

You're talking about Dr. Tobin's testimony refuting the defence's claim that carbon monoxide poisoning could have contributed to George's death?

Dr Tobin isn't a coroner.

Maybe youve heard of reasonable doubt. I could drive a truck through this case.

The jury followed all the evidence more closely than you or I. And the found the charges with the "beyond reasonable doubt" burden to have been proven to that standard. Unanimously.

And then he died on the pavement from a speed ball.

That's inconsistent with his struggling to breathe. And inconsistent with what all the experts said about his fentanyl levels.

That's why the jury (and coroner) were confident in attributing the death to Chauvin's actions.

Yeah I do have a problem with Nature.

Okay. You're talking about the most prestigious general science journal on the planet, so I think most people would disagree with you there.

I think they are controlled by some shadey oligarchs.

Who? Frank Vrancken Peeters?

Sci Am is so spectaculary anti-science now its not even funny.

... such as ... not engaging in climate science denial and calling out Trump for being anti science?

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

A medical doctor doesn’t understand what 98% oxygen means in a man who supposedly was choked to death. But a jury with an average IQ of 90 knows what’s going on. They’re specifically selected for being stupid. Why don’t you just admit that karmic justice was served when GF killed himself, and this is another racist witch hunt of an innocent man on behalf of another typical BLM “saint”. Can’t they find one single innocent black man to rally for? Are these psychos what pass for normal in the black community?

Yeah I give fuck all for prestige when it lacks merit. Thats called feudalism. Nature and many other academic and science institutions squandered their reputation for woke politics. Its over. At least theres some decent research being done outside the anglosphere. It turns out women and minorities really were bad for science.