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[–]Zapped 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Correct. I think all voter fraud should be called out. I have no doubt that both major parties have gained votes from some form of voter fraud. Ballot stuffing has been around as long as we've had elections in the U.S. Just because Trump won Texas, doesn't mean fraud should be ignored there by anyone. It may even help find fraud committed elsewhere. Everyone with skin in the game should fight for fair elections., even if their side loses.

[–]wendolynne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

We have made big strides in this area since the electronic voting machines were first adopted. See this story from 2013: https://columbusfreepress.com/article/diebold-indicted-its-spectre-still-haunts-ohio-elections In some jurisdictions, we have paper trails that can be recounted, were the first gen voting machines did not. In places like Georgia they did recounts using these paper records, now the election officials are being bullied: https://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2020/12/02/georgia-election-officials-receive-death-threats-during-recount/ Recounts are expensive, and are restricted, Depending on local laws, only candidates in the race can demand a recount. Even when you are on the ballot, you might not be allowed: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/07/us-election-recount-halted-michigan-jill-stein . The price of peace is eternal vigilance.

[–]Zapped 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm not convinced that the voting machines were hacked as some people say. In my area, a paper ballot is printed after we vote. We read it and then take it to a poll worker for back up. Mail in ballots are where I think the fraud played a role. Some states removed safeguards to make it easier for fraud by mail-in voting. I think the ballot dumps just mean when they are reported in large groups, but 95% Biden for over 100,000 ballots in at least one case? Also, absentee ballots are different than the roll out of the mass mail-in ballots. I understand that this is a special year and it was challenging to get people access to the polls. I think it could have been much better handled. I will not be satisfied unless these mail-in (and even the absentee) ballots are verified. See Lyndon Johnson's Senate campaigns in 1941 and 1948. I know that will take many months and I think that is why so many are trying to "move on". Even in the North Carolina Supreme Court Chief Justice race, the Democrat conceded after a sample hand-to-eye recount even though she lost by only 400 votes out of over 5 million cast. She is not allowed to ask for a state wide hand-to-eye recount.

As much as in-person voting is supposed to be the most secure, I was the victim of in-person voter fraud in 2016. Someone walked in to a neighboring precinct and told the poll workers they were me. They don't have to offer any proof and the poll workers are not allowed to ask. They said "I" had moved so that they could fill out a provincial ballot. I voted in person the same day. I did not know until 2018 when I was told I was at the wrong polling station. It took weeks to straighten out and was told it was a simple mistake, even after I found out the new address was an abandoned, unlivable house. I will always be skeptical for this reason, unless I see proof that all steps were made for a secure election and not just a "reasonable" effort. I am an unaffiliated voter, but the Democrat Party in my state has been fighting the Republicans for voter ID laws. I say this because this is why I need to see more proof of life for an honest election than many. And, I distrust the Democrat Party specifically when it comes to potential voter fraud. I feel they have to most to gain from it and feel that's why they fight against safeguards.

Thank you for your reasonable, well put together thoughts on this with backup examples. This site needs more users like you. Great ending quote, too.

[–]wendolynne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So sorry that happened to you. Stealing individual votes such as you experienced is a very tedious way to throw an election. While it might be successful for local races, it is unlikely to have an impact on national races where the margins are bigger. No doubt over the years there has been some fraud on both sides, there is a lot of history demonstrating that. And probably always will be, the stakes are high, it is so tempting.

Some states like Alaska and Colorado have been using mail-in ballots for years and have developed safe-guards, their citizens are confident in their system. Other states could learn from them. https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2020/10/01/colorado-mail-in-ballot-absentee-voting-how-state-perfected-system/3572176001/

I heard of people tracking their mail-in vote like they would track their FedEx package. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/election-2020-mail-in-ballot-tracking-trnd/index.html

Internet voting will be the next big thing. We will have to do the regulation all over again so that everyone can be comfortable with that.

We as an electorate in general we seem to have lost the attitude that our opponents are the 'loyal opposition' - that they mean well, just have different ideas about the best way to govern. So many mean and scary things are said about the opposition. Fear not, Biden's presidency won't be that bad. He and the Democrats mean well, and will do their best. There will be another chance in four years.

[–]Zapped 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks for the pep talk. I think Biden will be a moderate President and is still friendly with most Senators. Bill Clinton was a good President even with his moral deficiencies, and I think Biden can work across the aisle. I hope the Senate holds, though. I remember what happened the last time the Democrats took both chambers of Congress and the White House, although there is no chance for a super-majority this time.

Fraud only has to impact a few states to make a difference in the national election. There are reports of officials relaxing and even skirting the mail-in ballot safeguards. https://sharylattkisson.com/2020/12/what-youve-been-asking-for-a-fairly-complete-list-of-some-of-the-most-significant-claims-of-2020-election-miscounts-errors-or-fraud/

I hadn't even thought about internet voting. I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable with that. You'd have to make sure both ends are secure.

[–]wendolynne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the link - which I would call "watching the sausage being made." The poll workers don't get a much of a dress rehearsal, and they don't always get clear instructions, or understand them even if they seem clear. And they might not be good with crowds, if one shows up. A lot of this is unfortunate, and we have to do the best we can with what we have got. throwing out a whole precinct's votes because of one confused poll worker would be not at all fair to the people who voted in good faith.

Leads changing as the ballots are counted is very typical. I've seen it so many times, where my candidate takes an early lead and later ends up losing. The explanation: ballots coming from big cities with efficient counting systems often post their results first, while the rural votes take longer to tabulate. That's just the way these things go. Similarly with mail-in ballots compared to in-person voting. So those stories are not at all convincing to me, since I have been on the other side so many times.

I can't claim to have studied the rules of every state, but I would expect as standard procedure, there would be ways of verifying that ballots are not counterfeit, that the voters casting the ballots are registered, and registered voters are legal to vote, in every state, county, and precinct. That would be standard procedure, although each jurisdiction is free to make its own rules. I find it hard to believe that fraudulent voting on the scale to change the outcome could have occurred.

[–]Zapped 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I appreciate you sharing your experiences and views. I think you're right that things will get better after this when verifying votes (and the voters). And I agree that the poll workers are generally selfless individuals who seem to do it out of duty instead of the very little pay they get. I've only seen one that let her political opinion known.