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[–]ANIKAHirsch 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You're still assuming that decreasing the population is an end in itself to be achieved. Not me. I want to increase population. More people --> more prosperous society. Evidence would suggest that.

You're a moral relativist. I'm not. Moral relativism leads to the propagation of real evil, and for that reason it's inexcusable.

Why does so much of your argument hinge on keeping welfare in place? You seem to agree with me that it's an useless and destructive policy. So tell me how we can stop it. I say end the program.

I'm not a realpolitik-ian. I'm a liberal. Pragmatism means nothing if you can't tell me what goals you want to achieve. So far, I'm getting that you want government sterilization and welfare, which I am not willing to support.

Less children being born to single parents would improve the community.

So make more parents get married. Don't make less children.

[–]insta 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You're still assuming that decreasing the population is an end in itself to be achieved.

Reducing single parent households is my goal. I don't have this weird view that "more people = good".

I want to increase population. More people --> more prosperous society. Evidence would suggest that.

The overwhelming majority of developed nations have birthrates under replacement. What you are saying is patently false.

You're a moral relativist.

I'm a fan of realpolitik. I'm not interested in moralizing about what's "evil" or not. I want policies that can be put into place realistically to be done so actual society can be improved and not some fantasyland. I'm not interested in grandstanding for the purposes of someone's ideological ego.

Why does so much of your argument hinge on keeping welfare in place?

Because that's what's going to happen.

So tell me how we can stop it.

You cannot. My whole argument surrounds this. You have no plan to end welfare outside of empty rhetoric. And that's because it's impossible. It's a political loser. It's so outside the overton window it might as well not exist.

Pragmatism means nothing

That's the first accurate thing I've read from you.

So make more parents get married.

And all attempts to increase marriages since the 60s has failed. You bring nothing to the table except failed old ideas that accomplish nothing while the ships bow is already beneath the water. I'd actually respect a more Fascistic-argument from you that we're just going to force men to marry women they knock up. At least that would be something new and not just the same losing talking points.

Don't make less children.

Preventing people from being born is not immoral. If contraceptives and vasectomies is baby genocide then you hold an extremist view on the matter.

[–]ANIKAHirsch 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reducing single parent households is my goal.

Mine too.

The overwhelming majority of developed nations have birthrates under replacement.

They didn't become developed with low birth rates.

I want policies that can be put into place realistically to be done so actual society can be improved and not some fantasyland.

Me too.

Because that's what's going to happen.

As long as people like you continue to enforce it, it will.

You have no plan to end welfare outside of empty rhetoric. And that's because it's impossible. It's a political loser. It's so outside the overton window it might as well not exist.

The whole system will collapse if we don't. It can't be sustained.

You bring nothing to the table except failed old ideas that accomplish nothing

The failure has been to let my "old ideas" go out of fashion in the first place..

I'd actually respect a more Fascistic-argument from you that we're just going to force men to marry women they knock up.

As a Liberal, I would never suggest that. As a woman, I fear being forced to marry a man who has impregnated me.

If contraceptives and vasectomies is baby genocide

Hormonal birth control acts as an aboritifacient. It has the power to kill a fertilized egg (which is a child in its first stage of life).

Barrier methods and permanent sterilization only prevent the egg and sperm from meeting. That means no life is created in the first place. So nothing has been killed.

But it's still a sin.