BREAKING NEWS: FBI updates crime statistics. It is now 13/56

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[–]ANIKAHirsch 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

So I see.. overall crime has increased.

[–]insta 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

If crime went up or down 5% that's really not here nor there. The concern should be a remarkedly small group of people committing a huge proportion of the crime. In fact, not only are we not talking about the issue, we're actively discussing that this demographic is the victim of the police system.

It's seriously laughable that middle-class suburban twats think that hiring some counselors is really going to change anything in regards to these saddening statistics.

[–]BigFatRetard 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

One black speaker I listen to often points out that the welfare system and the family law system and various other government actions have promoted black women not staying with black men who father their children. 56% of kids are born without fathers in the black community.

We know from the data that the nuclear family is actually not a bad thing. In fact, fatherlessness is shockingly bad. 80% of violent rapists were raised by a single mother. An overwhelming amount of violent crime in general is committed by people raised by a single mother.

In the name of protecting people, the government is creating and perpetuating a system that further drags down one ethnic group.

[–]EuropeanAwakening 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

The black crime rate has always been higher than the White crime rate. Race denial is pathetic. Stop it. Blacks commit more crime largely due to biological reasons. End of.

[–]Canbot 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think it is denial to focus on factors that can change. Meanwhile being racist has failed, is doomed to continue to fail, and is thus as ignorant as socialism and communism.

[–]insta 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One black speaker I listen to often points out that the welfare system and the family law system and various other government actions have promoted black women not staying with black men who father their children.

I get that. But be aware that this is mostly just empty basic bitch conservative talking points. This is just an easy throwaway line for conservatives to say "Welfare is the problem" and therefore they can wipe their hands of the issue and move on. They have no follow up plan to address the problem they just simply say "Take away welfare and bada bing bada boom". So-called conservatives like Ben Shapiro will yammer on about utopian nonsense to get around the topic then they will move from areas where their policies have failed and just surround themselves in their own little bubble. These people are pathetic. They preach easy utopian solutions because they never have to deal with the consequences of their failed policies.

This is one of the main reasons I support abortion because it's an actual way to improve society. Yammering about Jesus, welfare, and marriage isn't going to do shit. I'm sorry but it's just not and even worse is that they know that and it's just an excuse for them to not deal with the problem.

[–]ANIKAHirsch 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

What's the solution?

[–]insta 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

In the short term: More cops, crackdown harder, broken windows policing.

Long term: more (free?) accessibility for birth control, condoms. I would even like to see some sort of paid-for sterilization (as in, you get cut a check for sterilizing yourself) and decreased immigration would probably help too.

[–]ANIKAHirsch 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

What evidence do you have that decreasing population would protect us from crime?

I don't agree with your methods. It sounds like you want to sterilize black people...

[–]insta 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

It's not about "decreasing population" it's about trying to prevent children from being born into situations with the odds are stacked against them. It's quite simple. Growing up in a single parent household is a big statistical factor for being a criminal. The less single parent households you have, the less likely the population is to be criminals. It's obviously not a silver bullet but it would for sure decrease crime.

As for the paid sterilization, that's quite obvious, if you value like a $10,000 check more than you value your reproductive ability then you for sure shouldn't be procreating. I get it makes people feel uneasy but welfare queens having endless babies is certainly an issue and we need to tackle it someway.

As for the black people comment, it is a statistical reality that the majority of black children are now born into single parent households. That's just a fact. Whites are up there too buddy, I don't want dumpy white women pumping out babies just because she's white. This policy would basically implicate everyone except NE Asians and Jews because they seem to be the only demographic who can stick their dick in a woman & wear protection.

[–]ANIKAHirsch 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I still don't support your methods. You should focus on incentivizing what you want, instead of de-incentivizing what you don't want. It's more effective.

If children fair better in two parent households, then encourage marriage and domestic partnership. Change alimony laws and make it less easy to divorce.

Any type of government sterilization reeks of eugenics. I can't support that. I can never support that. Don't you know the US government has a history of doing exactly that to our black populations?

If welfare queens are the problem, then end welfare. Make women financially dependent on the men in their life, so they don't desert them.

Before desegregation, more than 70% of black children were born to married parents. That's just another fact.

(https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/09/20/black-family-struggling-not-slavery/)

What the black community needs is strong black men who are willing to stand up for the women and children, and to defend and protect them.

So make sure black men have access to education and gainful employment opportunities. Propagandize them with the virtues of healthy masculinity.

I don't believe anti-natalist beliefs are healthy for any population. I don't admire any family who decides to have few children. In families with one or two children, there is a huge burden on the children to financially support the parents in their old age. That's not fair to them.

Next, I think you'll tell me that you support China's One-Child Policy too.

There is something very sick about a culture that hates its children, and we are bearing the fruits of that.

Are you aware that all forms of hormonal birth control act as abortifacients?

I suggest you read my previous writing on this before we broach this topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAMALiberalFeminist/comments/duj6ng/abstinence_is_the_best_way_to_prevent_pregnancy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Furthermore, its a sin for a man to deny giving children to his wife. It demonstrates a lack of love, and it is a particular injustice to her. (You must know that in any family delaying childbirth, it is usually the husband making that decision, and not the wife.)

[–]insta 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

You should focus on incentivizing what you want, instead of de-incentivizing what you don't want. It's more effective.

I don't look at it that way. I look at what's the most permanent solution. I think sterilization is the most permanent and more access to abortion and contraceptives is the best way forward.

If children fair better in two parent households, then encourage marriage and domestic partnership. Change alimony laws and make it less easy to divorce.

Marriage rates are already plummeting. Making marriage a more binding agreement is only going to alienate younger generations. Also, this "punish people by making financial penalties (i.e. alimony)" really doesn't impact poor people that much. It might hurt working class or higher but welfare queens pushing out kids won't care if they have yet another debt and their credit rating tanks even further. Once people reach these black hole of welfare there's no real financial punishment you can effectively put on them, it really just hurts the working class & up.

Any type of government sterilization reeks of eugenics. I can't support that. I can never support that.

I get that there's this emotional hurdle that needs to be overcame with my suggestion but I don't think there's anything really wrong with voluntary castration. Obviously we shouldn't be targeting kids or be insidious about it, but if people are willing to give up their reproductive ability for cash and it saves society from having undesirables then I don't really see the downside.

If welfare queens are the problem, then end welfare.

My plan is more likely to happen than yours. There is zero viable way forward to end welfare, if you disagree you're just a utopian or lying.

Before desegregation, more than 70% of black children were born to married parents. That's just another fact.

And a way to bring those numbers back up is to have ready access to abortion and contraceptives. I understand you'd much rather talk about this lofty goal of keeping black men with the mothers but this idea of yours have stalled out over the past 40+ years. I don't think any amount of social engineering is going to work fast enough for us to turn around these numbers.

I don't believe anti-natalist beliefs are healthy for any population. I don't admire any family who decides to have few children.

Again, my propositions are purely coming from the realm of realpolitik and on-the-ground realities. I am really trying to avoid these nebulous goals which are damn near unachievable. I get that you can spit out a whole bunch of stats about marriage rates before segregation but the honest answer is there's no way to get back to those. You're suggestion of simply trying to propagandize men into staying with the mothers is an insurmountable task. This culture is just saturated in negative propaganda and to think we're going to flip it 180 degrees is a fantasy.

There is something very sick about a culture that hates its children, and we are bearing the fruits of that.

I don't hate children. I hate irresponsible parents who raise shit humans being. I am fully aware that abortion is morally wrong and what I am suggesting is morbidly wrong. But the reality is we don't need more dregs of society and we don't need more criminals.

Are you aware that all forms of hormonal birth control act as abortifacients?

No, I'll look into it thanks. I am very pro-contraceptive and anything that helps keep single motherhoods down.

Furthermore, its a sin for a man to deny giving children to his wife. It demonstrates a lack of love, and it is a particular injustice to her.

Again, I have the lens of realpolitik strapped to my face when it comes to this issue. Moralizing and these grand gestures towards traditionalism aren't doing anything.

[–]ANIKAHirsch 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

How is the most permanent the solution the best? In any situation? If the solution is bad, then making it permanent is even worse.

Marriage rates are plummeting because men are afraid to get divorced under the current laws. By "change alimony laws", I meant end alimony. If we made it harder to get divorced, it's just a fact that there will be less divorce..

"Once people reach these black hole of welfare there's no real financial punishment you can effectively put on them"

If that's true, then end welfare anyway. Apparently they don't care whether or not they receive that payment, so why are we giving it to them?

"emotional hurdle" ?

No, it's called having a conscience. It's also not voluntary if there's a monetary incentive. That's literally the opposite of voluntary, it's incentivized. Seriously, what you're describing is exactly how the program was run before, down to the payments and targeted communites, and it was ended because of the human rights violations. Why do you think that program would ever come back?

"undesirables" ?

You are a eugenicist.. I'm going to be sick...

"There is zero viable way forward to end welfare"

Literally end it. Just cancel the program. You already told me it's not going to effect anyone on it, anyway.

"And a way to bring those numbers back up is to have ready access to abortion and contraceptives."

No, aboriton and contraceptives are what brought those numbers down. What else changed 40 years ago?

You act like your solutions are practical, but you haven't demonstrated that any of your solutions will even achieve what you claim they will. In my opinion, all of your policies will be totally destructive. Propagating welfare, abortion, and birth control will serve to further demolish black communities, just like they've done for the last 40 years. If you agree that black communities have been decimated, then look at the polices that have decimated them, and let's try something different.

"lofty goal"

Yeah, because I want black people to succeed and have healthy families... What do you want, again?

"trying to propagandize men into staying with the mothers is an insurmountable task"

No, it's literally one of the easiest things we could do. That's like.. printing posters..

Further, you admit that what you're suggesting is morally unconscionable, and you want me to get behind it?

I want to help people and make their lives better. You just want to totally annihilate the parts of society that you don't like.You clearly have a lot of hatred for them and their children..

It's the secondary mechanism of hormonal birth control. The first mechanics prevents the release of an egg from the ovum. The secondary mechanism prevents the implantation of a fertilized egg.. aka a silent abortion..

"Again, I have the lens of realpolitik strapped to my face when it comes to this issue."

If that's true, then show me that your policies will do what you say they will. Real world evidence shows me they'll only cause more destruction, as they already have..

[–]insta 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Just a tip: put ">" before the quoted part of text you want to respond to make it look

like this

Continuing:

How is the most permanent the solution the best? In any situation? If the solution is bad, then making it permanent is even worse.

I mean in the sense that at any moment someone could not use a condom, skip their pill, or just ditch their wife and all of the money we've poured into this program would be a loss. If you write someone a check for $10,000 to get snipped unless they go out of their way for corrective surgery that person is never having kids.

Marriage rates are plummeting because men are afraid to get divorced under the current laws. By "change alimony laws", I meant end alimony. If we made it harder to get divorced, it's just a fact that there will be less divorce..

Marriage rates are plummeting because marriage is seen as something not worth doing. By making it a more strict contract that won't help with the single parent-household rates. I'm not saying this is the worst idea ever, I'm simply saying it won't do anything.

If that's true, then end welfare anyway. Apparently they don't care whether or not they receive that payment, so why are we giving it to them?

You misread that. I'm saying you can't simply keep fining someone who has no money. You can't really use negative financial penalties against people with no money. This is something we've all experienced with car insurance. If some shitbox civic from the 90s without insurance hits you, you're not going to bother chasing them down because you can't get blood from a stone. I'm applying the same logic to this problem. But again, removing welfare is just a utopian goal. You have no way forward to accomplish this. It's all pie in the sky rhetoric. We're infinitely closer to my lunatic idea than we are ending welfare.

That's literally the opposite of voluntary, it's incentivized.

No. It really is not. My state has incentives for electric cars. Nobody is putting a gun to your head when you purchase a Tahoe.

Seriously, what you're describing is exactly how the program was run before

I'm suggesting voluntary vasectomies with incentives. That's not the same thing.

Why do you think that program would ever come back?

Because human rights are subjective and we allow women to murder tens of thousands of babies a year anyways. I don't want to go off in the weeds on this topic but "human rights" are literally whatever we say they are.

"undesirables"

Yes, children born into a high statistical chance of being wastes of society should be discouraged. You can grasp your pearls all you want but please don't give me this childish view of the world. The less children being born to single mothers the better this country would be. It's already happening with down syndrome children, what I am saying is not that controversial.

Literally end it. Just cancel the program. You already told me it's not going to effect anyone on it, anyway.

Again, please research realpolitik. What you're saying is a non-starter. You have no way of accomplishing this goal beyond empty rhetoric. Also you misunderstood me on that last part. You might as well say "End suffering" while you're at it because you have no way to push this policy.

You act like your solutions are practical

Says the person who thinks we're just going to "end" welfare. Buddy stop. My solutions are magnitudes more practical than yours. Write men checks for getting vasectomies.

but you haven't demonstrated that any of your solutions will even achieve what you claim they will.

I have time and time again. Less children being born to single parents would improve the community.

No, it's literally one of the easiest things we could do. That's like.. printing posters..

This is a child's interpretation of politics.

I want to help people and make their lives better.

As do I. Don't have children irresponsibly and it improves everyones lives and the community around them.

You just want to totally annihilate the parts of society that you don't like.

You just described prison.

If that's true, then show me that your policies will do what you say they will.

Vasectomies and increased propagation of abortion and contraceptives will leads to less children being born. I simply don't understand what you're not understanding in this.