Trump Orders Feds To Begin Process Of Defunding New York, Portland And Other "Lawless" Cities

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[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

They don't deserve it. Most people aren't behind this engineered chaos. The people and billionaires behind the chaos are the only ones who deserve a harsh justice.

Furthermore, there will be no shortage of survivors who will want their revenge on ill wishers like you and those who actually did the damage and violence. If you want vigilante justice then be prepared when it hits you first.

Defunding the cities is as stupid as defunding the police. If anything we should defund the military and government, and the banks, big pharma, big oil, academia, etc etc etc.

Defunding solves nothing. Reforming with BETTER police, BETTER governance, BETTER justice, BETTER fairness in the workplace, BETTER solutions are the answer.

We don't need bigger government, we need BETTER government. (Smaller would be good too.) But they are corrupt as fuck.

[–]CCwind 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Better police can be achieved through reforms and training. Better justice can be had by holding those in the system accountable. But how do you hold the governance in these cities and states accountable outside of the people that have voted them into power holding them to account? I agree that there are many who don't deserve the chaos and ruin that has and will come on them, but they are the ones who can stand up to the local government and make it clear that if they continue to misbehave there will be a change in who is in charge.

The only options the federal government has are to declare the state/city government is in insurrection or to apply pressure using the power of the purse. The former would lead to a real insurrection, and the latter is what is being threatened here. Making things better is the ideal goal, but when the state/city governments are openly refusing to uphold the law and their responsibilities the small government option is for the people to rise up and demand better. When that doesn't happen, the bigger government option of the federal government using its power to enact change is all that is left.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Bigger centralized government is not the solution, even "short term".

Yes, we must hold them accountable, but their voting system is rigged in 40+ Ways. They control the rules of how the votes are held and who can be and who is (s)elected. All governments are beyond corrupt. All governments and corporations are enemy parasites of the people.

We must properly organize and revolt in serious ways that actually affect the ruling class, NOT under some billionaire controlled chaos and riots without any legitimate and progressive demands. For example we can redefine and reclaim the means of communication, production, exchange, currency, and finance - all with the TOP priority of being bottom-up transparent authentic democracies with the ability to adapt and fork if infiltrated. We must call our corrupt and develop our own transparent ethical justice systems AND open science. We must resist as long and as hard and as much as possible. We must defend ourselves and our property against the monopoly on violence held by "authorities". And we must above all, maintain our freedom of communication.

But most people have been hypnotized since birth and find all this chaos confusing and paralyzing, and are therefore now clueless and impotent.

[–]CCwind 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Yes, there are issues with relying on voting to enact change in areas with large voter bases that make it easier for the those with power to maintain it. That is why we have peaceful ways of making it clear that the current behavior is unacceptable. Cuomo is unlikely to admit that he mishandled things wrt to the virus and sending the sick to nursing homes, but large protests (again peaceful) in New York and Albany can put pressure on the other members of his party that may come to think that throwing him under the bus is a good way to save themselves. Bureaucrats are generally cowards that will look to appease the crowds if it means not having to deal with it. So far, all they have heard from are the violent mobs (and the media) demanding that they stand down.

While I don't disagree on the need for fixing our institutions and the difficulty of making anything that is truly free when those with the most money and power have the ability to capture any new society or efforts to reform society. I do wonder how you would enact such a system in a way that doesn't leave it vulnerable to capture and doesn't require a massive government to oversee it to ensure that it functions as intended.

But most people have been hypnotized since birth and find all this chaos confusing and paralyzing, and are therefore now clueless and impotent.

For the people that are already facing hardships from the cities allowing looting, rioting, and politically motivated terrorism, how much more of a wake up call is it to see those same leaders digging their heals in as the cities lose funding. At some point, the people will wake up and speak up. Hopefully this would happen before desperation sets in and the speaking up takes a more violent form.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

" Bureaucrats are generally cowards that will look to appease the crowds if it means not having to deal with it. "

They are cowards AND bold scam artists. They'll be both simultaneously as much as possible. The entire system is rigged/built upon this and protects them from every angle possible.

" I do wonder how you would enact such a system in a way that doesn't leave it vulnerable to capture and doesn't require a massive government to oversee it to ensure that it functions as intended. "

A massive endeavour to be sure.

First, start with authentic transparency. That not only earns trusts but proves you are legit. Without it all turns to doubt, dogma, and tribalism based on blind faith. With transparency the propagandists will also be proven liars. It doesn't mean we have to agree with all policies and processes but it has to be transparent. CRITICAL to transparency is freedom of communication and uncensored access to the masses.

Second, decentralize all things. Fuck "leaders", "authority", "experts", "government", "corporations", "academia", "banks", etc. Be prepared and become resilient to sellouts, infiltrators, and traitors. This means people need to build stronger communities again, take on self-responsibility, self-reliance, and become strong. We need to take back the means of our success (communication, production, exchange, currency, and finance) and stop relying on our governments as well as stop relying on all the "free" services of the corporate "cloud". We all need to have a server or few at home, much like we all have refrigerators and water heaters. We need to control and share our own data and networks (ie. B.A.T.M.A.N.).

Third, bottom up authentic democracy. Everyone gets a say and a vote. Fuck voting for personalities and puppets. Only vote on issues. If there are countering perspectives then they should be able to put their best argument forward and let people vote on it for its merits. If they fail it's not because of how someone else worded it. Caution: It could fail because someone might be rewarded for presenting it poorly.

That's a start off the top of my head. I could write a whole manifesto but I'm already boring myself.

" how much more of a wake up call is it to see "

Blind faith is blind. They've been brainwashed all their lives and not taught critical thinking. Plus half of everyone is stupider than average, while most of those who aren't are really close to average. Yet you don't have to be clever to see it's bullshit, however you do need context to understand it all and that's not easily nor quickly learned. Some things are easy to see, like a magician's trick, once it's pointed out and explained. Many are far more complex. Yet all are essentially simply Machiavellian - the best starting point regarding all politics and mass media.

I will never expect the people to wake up so long as they're controlled by propaganda or violence/fear/starvation. But that doesn't mean I won't keep trying. I prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[–]CCwind 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

CRITICAL to transparency is freedom of communication and uncensored access to the masses.

Who will run the department of transparency to be responsible that all this information (all the information at the local, state, and national level) is getting out to everyone? If we leave it up to people to find it themselves, they will aggregate around people that share similar views and we are back to tribalism.

Second, decentralize all things. Fuck "leaders", "authority", "experts", "government", "corporations", "academia", "banks", etc. Be prepared and become resilient to sellouts, infiltrators, and traitors.

Given what you say about people at the end of your post about people and their intelligence, how to you propose doing this on any large scale? "A person is smart, but people are dump, stupid, and panicky."

Caution: It could fail because someone might be rewarded for presenting it poorly.

An ideal free market is a perfect engine, but it requires an educated set of consumers. Short of a matrix style downloading of information, how do you propose ensuring that someone getting rewarded for undermining the system without using a central government?

Much of the discussions of the founding of the US centered around how to resolve these problems and our system is the result. They realized, much like you, that only by setting many forces against each other to hold each other accountable could the society survive. Your proposal is the extreme form of this where the sum total of individuals are all holding each other accountable. But there has to be some trade off between not having accountability and devoting the majority of the entire society to ensuring accountability and redundancy. That can exist in the US, but it requires people to step up and put in effort (much as there are people that have and continue to do so) by being politically active and by developing independent tools. There may be room for changing laws to encourage this sort of participation, but it doesn't require rebuilding everything from scratch.

I will never expect the people to wake up so long as they're controlled by propaganda or violence/fear/starvation. But that doesn't mean I won't keep trying. I prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Do you know how many people it takes to get a crowd to start dancing? I believe studies say approximately 3. We already have evidence of wide swaths of the country turning against the sorts of politics that you and I are complaining about here. There may be debate about how best to lead a counter-movement, but all it takes is enough pressure for someone to stand up and then people will follow.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

" I do wonder how you would enact such a system in a way that doesn't leave it vulnerable to capture and doesn't require a massive government to oversee it to ensure that it functions as intended. "

That's what you asked. It's pretty broad. My answer is equally broad. We are at "A" and I've pointed out where "Z" is. I couldn't begin to describe in detail any foolproof way to get from A to Z, much less from A to B with any success.

Just because I fear that humanity may have no chance against the ruling class' corporocratic technocracy doesn't mean I'm going to give up hope.

You are asking the tough questions indeed! And I've been pondering on them for years. I am about to withdraw from SaidIt for a few months to finish my first draft of Bittersweet Seeds, my cautionary tale that will bring up as many of these issues as I can muster. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I'm sure going to raise some questions, and hopefully teach and entertain along the way.

In my story set in 25-30 years, somehow the underdog has developed an artificial intelligence that has gone global as a hive mind. It acts as an advisor, Jiminy Cricket, 2nd life partner, etc. It's better than a "fact checker" because it has no political affiliation other than collectively improving everyone, including itself. We all do better when we all do better. For some people this will be an easy thing to "obey". For others it will be a creative collaborator. For others it will be a manager to help them focus on their other talents. For others it will be something to order around. I'd thought of "social credits" years ago, before I ever heard of that term, because there's more to life than just binary money: have or have not.

Just as "an educated set of consumers " may be as impossible as a "free market", they're both worth striving for.

The current system is an old rotting tree. We need to grow a new organic and flexible one that can survive. Maybe a tree that grows in a stump, or through a fence to freedom, or around an peaceful fair ideal, or artificially grown around the old system to be stronger and better. There are also good images (though I couldn't find the best search wording) featuring a tree with a secondary vine-tree organically entwining the first tree - and after decades the first tree (perhaps smothered out) has rotted away leaving a bizarre looking tangle much like that previous artificial tree. This is how I visualize not building everything from scratch.

Currently there is no accountability for those at the top of the governments and corporations. They have expert propagandists that keep most of the public in the dark with profound dogmas of blind faith in their very corrupted systems. This did not happen over night, just as people are slowly but surely waking up.

"A revolution without dancing is not a revolution worth having."

Above all, THE most important thing about whatever revolution or new normal world order that may arise from this chaos, one thing is certain: It must be bottom up or else it will just be more of the same but worse.

[–]CCwind 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

As you are about to withdraw, I won't try to keep you here with continuing our discussion. I suspect there is much we agree on, but as you say these questions take a lot of pondering. One thought though:

It's better than a "fact checker" because it has no political affiliation other than collectively improving everyone, including itself. We all do better when we all do better. For some people this will be an easy thing to "obey". For others it will be a creative collaborator. For others it will be a manager to help them focus on their other talents. For others it will be something to order around.

This is a solid description of the role that religion has filled within society (imperfectly of course) throughout history.

Good luck with your story/screenplay.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I withdraw when I withdraw, in a day or few or maybe a week. I haven't begun to tie things up just yet. I have too many things going on and I haven't even begun to consider how I'm going to fold it up for a while to focus. That in itself requires focus I don't even have today without much sleep.

Very astute of you. My main protagonist was one of the founders of that open source global hive mind, yet by the time the story starts he's in crisis on a number of levels. The A.I. has made him obsolete. It's also beyond anyone's control. People are relying too much on it - in blind faith. And yet it's among the few things between individuals and the corporatocracy with their own A.I.s. (Kind of the way a unions are like a pillow, thick or thin, between the boot of the corporatocracy and a human face, forever.)

Unlike God, this A.I. can talk back to you. It also doesn't need your undivided worship nor demands respect. The age of privacy is over and it records everything it can and keeps track of folks without judgement. Collective circles of influence determine what is or is not valued in algorithms too complex for humans to follow, and they are subsequently rewarded accordingly understanding the limits and strengths of each. People stick with it for the results. Fantasy I know, but there are dystopian holes punched in it too. For example, there's also a strong propaganda campaign that still has most people believing it's an evil cult, that we all need a boss, etc.

I aim to finish a first draft before the end of year. I hope you might have a look then, and if compelled offer some feedback and criticism to improve it.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

You don't need the current fucking government. We don't need to """better""" anything. Letting these cities go into chaos helps accelerate the collapse and that's exactly what we need to do. A C C E L E R A T E.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I completely agree that we don't need government NOR mainstream media hysteria.

But "better" is a solution to improve things, not make them worse, as they are clearly getting, intentionally.

Yes, they want the chaos. Then they will dictate what the new order will look like, and I'm 100% certain that it will only benefit them and give them complete control and full spectrum dominance.

That is NOT better.

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Bbuuuuuuuut Trump