2+2=5 is catching on among the "woke". Good Lord, when you're taking your direction from the villain in George Orwell's 1984, how on Earth can you claim you are on the side of the good?

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[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I would recommend you all make a pot of coffee and read the (very long) article by James Lindsay (anti-woke vanguard and holder of a PhD in mathematics) about this topic.

Some of the mental gymnastics / abuses of mathematics involved in the whole debate are truly staggering. But when you realise that they believe nonsense like 'the master's tools won't bring down the master's house' you start to see how these people come up with shit like this.

[–]Canbot 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

They are out to literally destroy western civilization. They should all be deported to a non western country.

[–]yayblueberries 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

I've been saying they should be shipped to North Korea or some other communist country with how much they love talking about how we should all forfeit our rights and do things for the "greater good." That is so communistic that they really do not belong in an individualistic, capitalistic country such as the United States.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

You think the US is individualistic? I mean, maybe all the little groups are, but the vast majority of the US has merged and assimilated with some group and group-thinking. As a young person, I see very little true individualism occurring on a large-scale. If anything, it's been pushed out and replaced with mediocre personalities and dogmas.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yes, I do see this in the younger people, but also in the 30-50 age range, at least in my area. I can accept and understand things are different elsewhere.

    [–]jet199 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Your own culture feels like wet feels to a fish.

    You don't think the US us individualistic because you are immersed in that culture so it just feels normal. You'd have to go and live in a collectivist culture for a while to tell the difference.

    Also most cultures are made up of opposite extremes not just single traits. The UK is highly individualist but also very nanny state. This seems contradictory but actually one causes the other. Because each individual life is considered more precious than the welfare of the group people become super risk adverse. Any single life lost to normal risky things is a made out to be a huge tragedy which someone must be blamed and shamed for.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I can see where you are coming from.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I find my life full of the same observation. It makes sense due to some level of conformism is required for a civilization yet, what I have observed is a media driven game to get everyone to pick a side/group. These groups are all based in the concept of inclusiveness by exclusion. If you are part of my group you must hate these other groups. Jews are chosen/inclusive anyone not Jewish is excluded. Same for the other western and eastern religions. Pop culture is a funny one that changes the objects worshiped as the pop culture memetics slides over generations. Tell me everyone did you really NEED or WANT that iPhone 10? I am using a 5c and it works great. Do you need all the bells and whistle they put on these hand held computers? Luckily I do not need the mental dopamine pump these devises/ apps create.

    What I see these days with covid and the cornucopia of choices of sides/groups to choose from is conquered. I don't care what side a person chooses it is only a side and no one side is going to win. If the elite get all the proletariat to fight each other they don't need to lift a stick. I'm watching Seattle to see what happens there, because they will implode or the national guard is going to make a lesson out of them for the rest of us to watch like the wars in the Middle East.

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    We should exchange them for the Hong Kong protestors. These tools would get to learn what communism is really like, and we'd get some people who could actually appreciate the freedoms we have.

    [–]Sonofzeus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nah they should just be imprisoned in labor camps

    [–]Chipit[S] 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

    I cannot believe, less than an hour after you posted, another user is arguing 2+2=whatever I say it means, using the exact same lies as detailed in your article. Thanks for posting.

    https://saidit.net/s/books/comments/6aj7/the_last_ringbearer_or_lotr_told_from_saurons/

    [–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Glad to have given you the tool to refute their BS!

    [–]lawuigi 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Also listen to James' piece on Motte and Bailey since most of the arguments trying to pass this trash have to use this strategy. The TL;DR of Motte-Bailey is when you use an easily defensible argument (the Motte) to pass an insane argument (the Bailey).

    One possible motte to expect from these mathematical belligerents is the ability to get 2+2=5 in programming. And this is true you can create this instance in programming in fact any good establishment teaching programming needs to make this assignment for young, fledgling students so that they understand how this happens. Which is rounding error. So you can get 5 when you add 2.5 with another 2.5. Or use 2.3 + 2.4 to get 4.7, then round to a whole number and make it 5. But this is where you need to point out that this is an error caused by carelessly using fractional numbers and assuming whole numbers and to push 2.5 as 2 is wordplay (2.5 is at least 2, or 2 with a bit extra) and rounding 4.7 to 5 is reducing accuracy. So it's vital to catch this to prevent them from going to 2+2=5 and advancing to 2+2=7 or 99 or purple.

    [–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Oh interesting, I didn't realise that had a name.

    The one that bothers me most is the 'well it works in different bases!' argument. Yes, I'm sure it does (not a mathematician), but don't you have to declare what base you're working in before you present things like that? If you wrote a mathematical paper and did the whole thing in base 4 but didn't tell anyone that's what you'd done, all your calculations would be meaningless, because we work in base 10 (?) by default.

    [–]lawuigi 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I'd say that's more being careless if you forget to declare the base. Unless you are trying to take advantage of people thinking in base 10 by default then we run the risk of someone being deceptive and trying to trap you. In that case they are waiting for you to assume and will then chastise you for making the leap in logic to make you look foolish. A dirty trick that is all too good at swaying opinion that is unfortunate in a logical argument.

    [–]AFutureConcern 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    You're exactly right - we have common assumptions and don't go around introducing weird bases and the like without saying so. Lindsay goes into exactly this in detail - he points out they want to erase any stable meaning of words or concepts, so they have the say in what things mean, i.e. it's bigger than just mathematics.

    [–]Chipit[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Excellent articles. Thanks! Please keep sharing them!

    [–]Vigte 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

    when you're taking your direction from the villain in George Orwell's 1984, how on Earth can you claim you are on the side of the good?

    When they probably never read the book, so the analogy doesn't apply to them

    [–][deleted] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

    I can affirm that many young "woke" people haven't actually read 1984. Most of my classmates skipped it because it was dark and "boring".

    [–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    The movie is actually an excellent adaptation.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    I never knew they made one. So, you are saying that they didn't do to 1984 what they did to Farenheit 451?

    [–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Highly recommended!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four_(1984_film)

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087803/ 7.1/10

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1984_1984 77% 71%

    Both undervalued ratings IMO, likely because it's a bleak world without a happy ending.

    https://1337x.to/search/nineteen+eighty+four/1/

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]lawuigi 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Pretty amazing considering that the modern representation of numbers used today is called the Hindu-Arabic numerals and despite it not sounding 'white' at all is somehow 'white.'

      [–]iraelmossadreddit 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

      it's real but it's racist you biggot. when realize 1+1=3 you realize 2+2=5 because standard devations and that's why I have so many kids

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

      See also: Flat Earth, AntiVax, AntiMask.

      [–][deleted] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

      Don't mix anti-vax and anti-mask with flat-earthers. That is such a fucking leap. Just because every flat earther is a science-denier doesn't make everyone who criticizes masks and vaccines a science-denier.

      [–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

      It kinda does tho...

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

      No it doesn't. You have to be aware of the contention and debate within the scientific community concerning things like MANDATORY masks and vaccines. If you aren't, then I implore you to go deep onto Google or whatever engine you use. You are grouping doctors in with crazies. You are grouping virologists in with flat-earthers. Super disingenuous. It's like getting called a scientologist for criticizing psychiatrists. Plenty of shills do that on reddit, so go there, if that's your prerogative.

      [–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

      An out-of-nowhere slur against psychiatry is a dead giveaway of a Scientologist.

      There's no debate about masks. Wear them or else. You're endangering the whole world with your irresponsible acts.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      It's like getting called a scientologist for criticizing psychiatrists.

      You seriously need to work on your reading comprehension, if you thought that was a slur against psychiatrists.

      Wear them or else.

      Is that supposed to be a threat? Wear masks or else what?

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      He's been calling me a Scientologist all week. It's cool.

      [–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      Face vigilante justice in the streets. Just like happened in Portland yesterday. That's what happens to the enemy of the people. People don't like maskless virus spreaders. You threaten all of us with your morally repugnant behavior.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      If that's true, everyone I know would be sick or dead. Few people in my state has worn a mask after four months of "flattening the curve" So, your BS has no basis in my life. It's hot air, Chipit.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      You are adorable, you internet troll.

      [–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Personal attacks aren't arguments. Now, back to reading L. Ron Hubbard.

      Hey, did you know that Xenu is the intergalactic overlord at the heart of your psuedo-religion?

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      Dude, there is nothing I could say that could convince you of the truth. You are an internet troll.

      [–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Xenu (occasionally spelled Xemu), according to Scientology, was the evil ruler of this part of the galaxy 75 million years ago. He is basically the big baddie Darth Vader character of Scientology. His story was shown, with remarkable accuracy, on the South Park episode "Trapped In The Closet," complete with flashing text declaring "THIS IS WHAT SCIENTOLOGISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE," just in case people thought they were just making it up.[note 1]

      https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Xenu

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Dude, you are a number. Do you use a Fleshlight of your own asshole?

      [–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      ^

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      I disagree.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      You do you, moko. Being disingenuous online is totally accepted in society, so join the ranks!

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Disingenuous is thinking that people wear masks because of some liberal conspiracy (doctors have been wearing them for decades in the operating room for the lulz) and vaccines haven’t saved hundreds of millions of lives. You fucking retard.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Hey man, retards are some great people, thanks for comparing me to one that fucks! Wow, what a compliment :) Doctors used to wear masks only when they did surgeries or dealt with SICK patients, not when they walk around the halls of their home or in public. Vaccines have hurt more people than they have healed. If you want to talk about modern medicine that has saved millions of lives, talk about something more useful than vaccines. I'll spend the next few days responding to you with links, I don't have the time at the moment. Vaccines are proven to be dangerous, the people who are involved with them are proven to be untrustworthy (as in, they have been caught lying), and here is the smoking gun... I can't get due recourse for any damage a vaccine does against me. AS IN, the fuckers who hurt me won't go to jail. I'll just get a settlement. If you really want to trust them, go ahead. I have the freedom to push any needle away from my skin. If they made vaccines mandatory, I can promise you that lots of doctors and scientists will immediately try to talk out about it. In fact, many of them already have. You aren't well read, you celibate normal-person. See, I can make cute insults too.

      [–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

      Clearly you don't know the difference between corrupt science and open science nor have any inkling about how many psyops (psychological operations) are unleashed upon the unwitting masses - including campaigns of true information mixed with misinformation and disinformation by infiltrators to discredit the authentic truth-seeker voices. Yes, the world is FULL of conspiracies for a full spectrum dominance to monopolize and exploit EVERYTHING we do AND to control how we think.

      Put your mask over your brain to keep the propaganda out. /s

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

      People literally just don't want to understand history. The fact is that psychopaths will try to get to the tops of any power structure they are in, and they often seek out other psychopaths. In hindsight, we can look back on wars and political crises as being manufactured to some extent, and yet no one thinks this is happening today. The West is the new Rome, and it is disgusting in many ways, and yet high and puissant in its accomplishments. Mandatory masks are simply another way to control us and cause division amongst our ranks. It's been planned for this time period specifically because of the psy-ops they've been running for past two decades. They gear people up for "progress" then consolidate all the power amongst themselves. These feel-gooders never even address this simple fact: if it's so dangerous to be anti-mask, then people who are anti-mask would be sick and their loved ones would be too. The fact that we are healthy people and have been living our lives near the same as we were before Covid hit doesn't even reach their brains.

      [–]jet199 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

      I don't think masks are for control. They are to shut up the whimps and whiners. I saw a young, fit collage lecturer posting the other day that if the government makes him go back to work he will die when actually he's more likely to get struck by lightning in his demographic (of course he expects them to keep paying him). These people are so crazy and loud the government is forced to placate them. I really think we just need to accept there are going to be a few thousand shut-ins left over from the panic of lockdown and move on without them. No health measures or falling figures are going to make these terrified people feel safe, it's an emotional problem.

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

      I can see where you are coming from. I still feel like it is to divide and conquer.

      [–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Truth.

      [–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      That's how sheeple think.

      [–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      100% correct.

      [–]flugegeheimen 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      Please don't mix a reliable scientific theory you can make sure is true with your own eyes (Flat Earth) and crazy conspiracy theories (AntiVax, AntiMask), not only absolutely asinine but also endangering people. Thanks.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Dude, you are making a dumb joke. Be honest with yourself and look into the scientific contention about vaccines and MANDATORY masks. It's not so cut and dry.

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      in the book (1984) it is a training in double-think or whatever. In your mind two plus two must be able to equal 3 or 4 or 5 or any number The Party demands it to be at the time.

      Winston knows two plus two equals four (except for very large values of two, of course) so he refuses to acknowledge that two plus two equals anything other than four.

      [spoiler]

      in the end, Winston is left a blubbering nothing and to his core hates it but it is true: he now loves Big Brother and they have broken his will.

      George Orwell's 1984 was published in 1949, a chilling portent of days to come.

      see also Lucy : https://youtu.be/vwObck9twes?t=25

      "One plus one equals two, that's all we've learned. But one plus one has never equaled two. There are, in fact, no numbers and no letters. We've codified our existence to bring it down to human size, to make it comprehensible. We've created a scale so we can forget its unfathomable scale."

      yea but two plus two = 4.

      [–]suckitreddit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Probably 66% of the people on this planet are fucking retarded, I swear.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      I just found this today:

      Why Some People Think 2+2=5 ...and why they're right: https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a33547137/why-some-people-think-2-plus-2-equals-5/

      [–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Nope. This is playing with words. See here for a solid refutation. https://newdiscourses.com/2020/08/2-plus-2-never-equals-5/

      2+2=4

      [–]diogeneswanking 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

      are people really claiming that 2+2=5? it sounds like a piss take and a knowing reference to 1984

      [–]Pants 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      Not a piss take. Check the comment above you.

      [–]diogeneswanking 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      hm. i pride myself on being open minded but i'm not understanding the point here. maths is abstract even when it's applicable to the real world and breeding chickens isn't the same as doing sums

      [–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      There are four lights!

      [–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yes they certainly are. This is an essay about how it's catching on like wildfire. https://newdiscourses.com/2020/08/2-plus-2-never-equals-5/

      It makes a lot of sense if you understand Critical Theory, which all of these riots are based on.

      [–]kwallio 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      No, there are people actually trying to argue that basic math like 2+2=4 is racist. I'm not sure how serious all of them are, it seems like a typical postmodern "gotcha" take that no one actually believes, but people are in apparent seriousness saying that.

      [–]diogeneswanking 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      o it's racist. you know what, there's a language, piraha, that doesn't have counting. they've got a word for one or a smaller quantity and a word for two or a bigger quantity, otherwise they've got no use for numbers so they don't have any. so i think a case can be made that numbers aren't universal and 'our' maths isn't the only maths. but the argument doesn't hold water. 2+2 must always equal 4 because it does by definition, just because those are two ways of writing the same number, it's just another way of saying 4=4. i don't know why anyone seriously thinks that that idea's constructed. there's even a mathematician making the case. all i can conclude is that this is one of those insane things made up to keep my focus away from where it needs to be

      [–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      No, they are dead serious. Please read: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/08/2-plus-2-never-equals-5/

      It does a better job explaining than I could ever do. They are really saying it and they mean it.