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[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Same with women's football or math or playing the violin or sexual appetites.

Nope. Testosterone increases libido.

The problem is with socialization of gender roles,

Except that these preferences appear in the standard pattern in people even when their sex is obscured by an intersex condition and raised as the other sex.

Prenatal androgens affect play behaviour and aggression as well as sexual orientation.

[–]sudd3nclar1ty 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sexual appetite cannot be reduced to mere testosterone - your flat negation followed by a narrow male-centric response is a comically underwhelming introduction. Let's see what else you got.

Gender socialization using intersex argument. Ok, 0.1% of the population born intersex and most want informed consent at age of majority rather than be butchered by doctors at birth. This has nothing to do with toxic masculinity or anything else I said. Random.

More random tiny perturbations of prebirth hormones that proves...nothing with respect to toxic masculinity the world over. Don't blame feminists for men's failure to take responsibility for evolving more appropriate social behaviors.

"The concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and to men themselves. Traditional stereotypes of men as socially dominant, along with related traits such as misogyny and homophobia, can be considered "toxic" due in part to their promotion of violence, including sexual assault and domestic violence. The socialization of boys in patriarchal societies often normalizes violence, such as in the saying "boys will be boys" with regard to bullying and aggression."

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So... Half of that was irrelevant to what I posted (what does informed consent have anything to do with this?)

My point was that kids born looking like girls, raised as girls, but with normal male testosterone levels in the womb... Act like males. Proof the behaviour is innate not learned.

re random tiny perturbations of prebirth hormones that proves...nothing with respect to toxic masculinity the world over

They aren't random though, it's predictable and kids that don't know they are male still act like males re aggression and play patterns.

Give female embryos male testosterone levels and they behave like males.

Instead of constantly complaining about male behaviour, following the well disproven socialisation theory, which makes zero difference to how they behave, we should be focusing on removing violent males from circulation on a more permanent basis. Or banging it into the heads of teenage boys they will be in a world of hell if the misbehave and finding ways to refocus thier aggression.

Traditional stereotypes of men as socially dominant

We see the same aggression and dominance in other primates. In every human culture.

Don't blame feminists for men's failure to take responsibility for evolving more appropriate social behaviors.

I never did. You see things that were not written in the text and not understand what was there.

I'm also a woman. I also have PCOS and I'm familiar with the effects of testosterone on libido.

[–]sudd3nclar1ty 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes I think we are in agreement on most of this as I'm a big believer in biology and the influence of hormones on male violence. I am drifting towards socialization however, due in no small parts to posts like this. Her in depth explanation in one of the comments is fascinating.

Ty for explaining your experience. The situation with PCOS is challenging and I wish you the best.

Edit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/i7nlsf/öcalan_says_that_sexism_is_one_of_the_main/