Unpopular opinion: parts of third-wave feminism directly led to the rise of trans ideology

submitted by Aureus from self.politics

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[–]ISaidWhatISaid 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

They are almost universally left-wing progressive activists, to the point that it seeps into their daily lives. This is exactly what you'd expect to see if radical progressivism leads to becoming trans, or if the two movements are connected in some way. TiMs and third-wave feminists agree on almost 100% of issues.

I don't think so. To suggest that men are transitioning because of feminism implies familiarity with feminist ideas and I can assure you most of the men who have transitioned in the past 50 years have never read a feminist book in their lives, attended a feminist event or spoken to a feminist IRL. They are as unfamiliar with feminism - socially, politically or academically - as the average cis man is, and feminism has exactly zip to do with why they are transitioning.

Take a batch of awkward males, tell them their masculinity is problematic and men are toxic, set up women as the admirable opposite of that, and remove all barriers to males being seen as "women".

As for the claim that men want to transition to gain access to the supposed perks that feminism only affords to women, I can assure you that men don't want to transition to become cranky middle-aged seasoned feminists, they want to transition to become sexy young feminism-ignorant women. The amount of videos I have seen from trannies where they use "becoming a woman" as a shorthand for what is basically cosmetic age-reversal is staggering. Youtuber ContraPoints for example literally said that the purpose of his transition is to turn himself into "a 20 year old girl". ContraPoints doesn't actually want to be a 20 year old girl, he just wants to look youthful and fresh like one. A lot of this is about narcissism and vanity, not an attraction to femininity.

The gigantic rise in trannies came from AGPs and those are for the most part porn-motivated or midlife crisis motivated transitions (things like divorce, loss in masculine vitality due to aging, reaching a professional or personal plateau and wanting to undertake a new "adventure" to get out of that, etc). Then there are the genuine perverts, these men that basically wanted to possess the women they were seeing in porn, and transitioning was the only way to possess that woman. There were surgeons and therapists who refused to operate on or refer AGPs (they would only transition HSTSs), but their students realized AGPs were the new growth market, so when they set up their own practices they took in all the AGPs the previous generation would have rejected.

(If you don't know about the AGP/HSTS taxonomy, look it up. Trannies will tell you that the taxonomy is bull but 99% of trannies still fall into either category so the taxonomy is as solid as ever.)

I'm surprised more gender-critical feminists haven't gravitated towards figures like Camille Paglia or Jordan Peterson, both of whom are critical of trans ideology and recognize the need of young men to attain a sense of masculine self-worth and confidence (lest they be taken in by far more subversive ideologies).

Jordan Peterson is a narcissistic academic who has pulled an Elizabeth Warren and pretended to "go native" so he's not above SJW tendencies himself. This Peterson guy is just the new Baudrillard. There have always been white male philosophers and intellectuals babbling away with white nerds getting their pants in a bunch (and their pants down) about it. I never would have heard of Peterson if people weren't tweeting and mentioning him all the time. Why are people so obsessed with him? All you are doing is free advertising for him. I think feminists today mainly hate Camille Paglia, not just because she criticized their movement (for denying biological realism) and attacked their feminist figureheads like Naomi Wolf, but also because Paglia once defended pedophilia as an authentic expression of gay culture (I don't know if she still holds those positions today, she did very explicitly hold such repugnant opinions on the past).

With regards to "de-stigmatizing" masculinity, check out this documentary, this what young boys today should be watching:

A Sundance Documentary. THE MASK YOU LIVE IN follows boys and young men as they struggle to negotiate the narrow definition of masculinity. The film illustrates how gender stereotypes are reinforced by media, peers, and adults, and interconnect with race, class, and circumstance, creating a maze boys and young men must navigate to become "real" men. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6C2ntL-60A

[–]Aureus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I stand by my statement that the stigmatizing of masculinity is firmly tied to the rise of transgenderism.

I looked into the film you suggested, "The Mask You Live In", which targets "toxic masculinity" and a supposed "narrow definition of masculinity". It was written, directed, and produced by Jennifer Siebel Newsom, an outspoken and self-identiifed feminist.

Here are some of her views on transgenderism, expressed on Twitter starting from the same year "The Mask You Live In" was made:

Great step towards inclusivity. Bryn Mawr [an all-women's college since 1885] is now accepting transgender women

Barnard is the latest all-women’s college to accept transgender women

Time for allies to stand up and speak out. Trans lives will not be erased.

"Trans is beautiful.

Trans is natural.

Trans is enduring.

We are not going away, we will not yield, and we will not be erased. We are here to stay.

They have picked a fight with the wrong community, and they will know us by our resolve and pride."

As the Trump administration continues its assault on the rights of Trans Americans, I am thankful for brave women like my friend Charlotte. Defending your humanity should not be your burden to bear @cmclymer - but wow are you doing a beautiful job of it.

Jennifer Siebel Newsom is also the founder and chief officer of The Representation Project, a feminist charity. Here are some of the articles it has promoted:

Celebrating Transgender Representation

Trans Representation in Netflix's "Disclosure"

Euphoria's Modern Teen (a show that promotes a transgender main character at the same time it "challenges constructions of masculinity")

You say that men who transition, by and large, are not familiar with feminist ideas. Maybe that's true, I can't say. But very prominent feminists - including feminists you promote - are extremely supportive of men transitioning, while at the same time tearing down "traditional masculinity". There's a connection here.

[–]ISaidWhatISaid 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I looked into the film you suggested, "The Mask You Live In", which targets "toxic masculinity" and a supposed "narrow definition of masculinity". It was written, directed, and produced by Jennifer Siebel Newsom, an outspoken and self-identiifed feminist.

I had no idea who made the documentary and I really don't care. By that standard no feminist woman should ever watch The Red Pill (2016) documentary either, no leftwinger should ever watch a documentary by a rightwinger, etc.

You say that men who transition, by and large, are not familiar with feminist ideas. Maybe that's true, I can't say.

If you don't even know how familiar with feminism most trannies actually are (and I can assure you, most know next to nothing about feminism, neither care to learn), how on earth can you imply with such certainty that their transitions are driven by feminist motivations?

But very prominent feminists - including feminists you promote - are extremely supportive of men transitioning, at the same time they criticize "traditional masculinity".

It's virtually impossible to be a public feminist in this day and age and not at the very least appear to be supportive of trannies. I am pretty sure most of them are just putting on a show to avoid being cancelled because they've seen what happens to feminists who come out and openly admit what they really think about transgenderism. It's possible that the maker of this documentary is a true believer in transgenderism but you never know because there is a very strong incentive to lie about these things. I would assume people like you think feminists are all liars anyway.

[–]Aureus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

By that standard no feminist woman should ever watch The Red Pill (2016) documentary either, no leftwinger should ever watch a documentary by a rightwinger, etc.

Watching is one thing. Agreeing with and endorsing is quite another.

I'm digging up more about the movie you recommended. Apparently it's used in middle and high schools as part of lessons on gender identity. This lesson plan for "The Mask You Live In" would be taught to kids as young as 11-14. It defines gender right away as distinct from biological sex:

Gender Identity - A person’s private sense of and experience with being a boy or man, girl, or woman, or a gender that may or may not correspond with the individual’s biological sex

The lesson plan goes on to offer a quiz for young boys to "grade" their favorite male characters on how much of a role model they are. There are several questions on it, and for each question the character gets a point. Several of these questions are just fine - "The male character is open about his feelings." "The male character nurtures those around him." "The male character is affectionate." Then we get to this:

The male character is gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, or transgender and is not reduced to a stereotype.

That line is real. Pull up the PDF and verify it for yourself. Young boys are being taught that a male who is transgender or "lesbian" is a better role model than one who is not. This belief is being packaged side-by-side with lectures about "expand[ing] the narrow definition of what it means to be a man."

This is directly from educational materials for "The Mask You Live In". It's made by exactly the same feminist group, The Representation Project, run by Jennifer Siebel Newsom, the creator of the film.

I don't assume that Jennifer Newsom is lying. I think she means what she says, and she is a full believer in transgenderism. Even if you do think she is lying, her lies will be taken 100% seriously by the young boys her foundation educates. Why would a feminist who is anti-transgender actively educate young boys that transgender males are better role models?

My title for this thread is "parts of third-wave feminism directly led to the rise of trans ideology". Here is an example of an outspoken feminist, a huge critic of "toxic masculinity", promoting trans ideology - and doing it to middle schoolers, through a foundation she runs. If that's not proof of my earlier statement, I don't know what is.